Welcome Back And Borderlands Check-In

George Blitch 0:14

Hank Shaw, welcome back to the Son of a Bleach podcast. How are you doing today, sir? I am very good. How are you doing? Doing fantastic, man. Doing it is, but I mean, last time we had you on, we were talking about Borderlands, which was a phenomenal book. Um, what what kind of response did you get there? I mean, I know it was a great success. I love it. I use it. Uh, you know, how did everybody take to that?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

It was good. Um, I mean, maybe not quite as good as I maybe expected, because uh I think I think a lot of people don't realize that it is very much a fishing game book and wild foods book as all my others. I think people were like, oh, you know, this is like Tex Mex or whatever. And I think I uh that message didn't quite get uh uh as loud as I thought because I I had I was at an event just last night in Minnesota, uh, and people looked at the book and like, what is this? I'm like, well, and I explained it, like, that's amazing, and they bought it, but like, I guess I didn't get the 20-second, you know, explanation enough. Uh, so it's it's doing okay, but yeah, I'm really happy with how Buck Buck Moose has gone so

Why Buck Buck Moose Returns

SPEAKER_01 1:18

far.

George Blitch 1:18

Dude, well, I I'm excited about that. Let's dive into that. So you first published this book 10 years ago, and now you have a new edition, you got 30 plus recipes, some really cool stories. You got a new forward uh there from uh Randy Newberg, which is a really cool one. Um and great guy there. Well, tell me a little bit about how this kind of resurfaced and your, you know, your your urge to put this out with these new refined things, and uh kind of, you know, yeah, get a little background on that first and we'll dive into it. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

So, I mean, uh, the way to explain it is I mean, if you think about anything that you are really good at, whether it's music or art or writing or accounting or anything, anything, anything, like name a topic, a name a skill or a passion of yours. Anyone who's listening to this. Now think about how much better you are now than you were 10 years ago. And that the the accumulation of experience, the accumulation of skills, the accumulation of just um re in my case, regional stuff. Um, and that has factored in a lot. Um I've hunted, you know, every year since in the 10 years, and I've probably butchered skinned, gutted, and butchered maybe a hundred plus deer in that time because uh we do these culinary hunts in Oklahoma with uh with Coastal Wings outfitters, and like I mean, our clients will kill 30 or 40 deer at one of these camps, and you know, that's all hands on deck. So that I kept fine, I kept coming back to it where I'd look at the book and be like, well, you know, I don't really do that anymore, or I have a way better way to do this, or um, I really want to add this recipe because it's so cool. Or there are some cases with my ex Holly and I, I mean, so we've we actually worked on this book together too. Um, that's why she's still on the cover, but um, because we remained pretty good friends. And there would be a dish that we would have in the older in the older book, and like, she's like, oh, I hate this photo. Can we shoot this? I'm like, absolutely, let's let's re-fo re-photograph it because she got better too, you know. Right. Her, you know, you get the cover photo of the of the uh Polish stuffed uh cabbage leaves, that's her photo. And it's so everything just got it better and better and better. And so not only is it just our improvement, but it was also I was responding to a lot of reader questions. So a lot of the the there's two, there were two or three like major criticisms that came up with the first book. One we solved because it was the black and white photos for butchering. Um the color balance wasn't good on the on the original one, so we just went black and white, and we just completely reshot it on a white background in color. So all of those photos now on the butchering process are crystal clear, and it's good, it's a huge improvement. So that was one criticism. Another was um like weeknight restaurant recipes. Um so time saving things became a big deal in this book. Like not everything, there's still sort of elaborate recipes because I gotta be me, you know. Yeah, yeah. Um but you know, there's casseroles now. There's um there's quick me uh quick, you know, weeknight stuff in there in the book now. And I and the other piece to that is in this sort of segues into the third uh big, big change was I I have a huge section on a pressure canning now because um a, I you know, I've really taken to it because it's uh it's a freezer saver for one thing. You know, I mean, I yesterday I was at the Savannah. I said, how many people here have more than one box freezer? And everyone's like, me. And I'm like, bro, you are going to find meat from like the Obama administration at the base of one of those things, and it's like you just you need to get a handle on it. And one of the ways to do that is to pressure can. But but pressure canning is not only a say a uh a space saver, but it saves your butt on like a Thursday when you're like, oh God, I'm really tired. And if you already made like chilendrone or or chili or barbeclaw or something, and you pressure canned it, all you gotta do is pop that jar open, heat it up, and you are good to go. And it's like a 15-20 minute process of something that you made that you know exactly what's in it, and it's freaking delicious. So that's a huge improvement. And then the final kind of bit to that a lot that I responded to a lot of uh you know uh reader questions was slow cookers, air fryers, instant pots, sous-vie. So I included uh tips and tricks to to incorporate all of that, the new fangled stuff, you know, uh, into your cooking. And so I I spent a lot of time testing and and running those recipes through those other ingredients or those other that other equipment.

George Blitch 6:06

Well, yeah,

New Photos And Faster Weeknight Cooking

George Blitch 6:07

I mean, with those kind of they're not just fads, they're sticking around. A lot of people are using these, and I think that's great to be able to utilize as things change, as things evolve, you know. And it's some of these are are not necessarily it's not like they weren't around then, but they are in everyone's household. Air air fryers are all the time. So it's like, okay, what can we do? How can we adapt and bring our wild game into that existence of using those kind of technologies there that are everyday now? Um, I think it's great that you included all that and kind of as things evolve, uh, and I love that you have the new photos, everything they're phenomenal. I can't wait for people to kind of see this. I mean, this book is now available to order, uh, and so this is something that you can get in your hands very soon, and I suggest that you do. Um, one of the things that I kind of want to touch base on, which I think is really, really important, and kind of in the foreword, Randy kind of mentioned this too, is the important detail that you kind of put into like when the animal hits the ground and really those dear basics, because you think about a cookbook, and man, you know, got all these amazing recipes you're gonna check out, but at the very beginning of stages of like what you do when you're in the field can be the utmost importance in the quality of your meals and those recipes that you cook. So I'd love for you to kind of you know walk back what's so important to you about making that. Hey, step one, dear basics, part one. Listen and read and check this out and uh why those things are. I mean, I know why they're paramount. You of course do too. But for some people who may be kind of getting into maybe, you know, cooking their wild game for the first time, not just taking it off to a processor or letting their uncle take take it and cook it. But let's kind of you know step down. Why is part one the must read of this book?

SPEAKER_01 7:45

The whole sort of like it's the it's it's funny, there's a little there's an expression in uh among London cabbies, and it's called the knowledge, and is London cabbies, in order to get their license, have to memorize the map of London, which I don't know if you know this, it's such an old city, there is no grid. It's just like you know. So this first section is the knowledge, and it is a basis for all good meals, really. Um, and it starts really before the deer hits the ground, it starts with good shot placement. Yep. Like in the infamous Texas heart shot. Um is not, you know, I I don't recommend it. I mean more sports. Right. I've seen it work, I've seen it work, but I've I've seen it go very, very wrong very, very many times. And the goal isn't to let it isn't to kill the animal by any means necessary. The the goal is to kill it cleanly. And uh I ideally unaware. And that's just meat science, because a stressed animal is going to be flooded with hormones and adrenaline and um and lactic acid, especially if it's been running. And all of those things can seriously, seriously affect meat meat character, like seriously. So the entire industrial meat complex is designed to avoid all of that because you can taste it. Like very simply, you can taste fear, and it's not a good flavor. So let's just say you got it you had a good shot, animal's dead. Number one thing you gotta do is cool that carcass down as fast as possible. And it's you know, especially in a warmer weathered place like California or Texas or Arizona, it is at the very least, gut the damn thing. Like I can't tell you how many people I know, like shoot a deer, throw in the back of the pickup, and then go to lunch. Or shoot a deer, throw in the back of the pickup, go to lunch, and then you know, watch the cowboys lose.

George Blitch 9:42

And I have some friends who are really gonna love that, and some they're gonna hate that. I love it. Go on, sir. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

I mean, I believe New York Giant Blue, so like we're not actually that good either, but like we can both suck together, basically. There you go. Um but like they don't they don't like the animal's dead, and they're like, oh, okay, cool. So that's that's your main thing is done. Um, but no, gut the damn thing. Even if you live up in northern Minnesota, like it's gut it. Like get it, cool this animal down. Um, and in a warm weather place, you need to skin it. You really do, because you just don't have unless you can take it right away to a walk-in. Right. Uh if you can take it right away to a walk-in, you're fine. You can keep the height on. But if you if you don't, and most people don't, you gotta take the height off. And it's way easier to pull off when it's warm anyway. Um ask me how I know. And uh so that's a huge, you go a huge way to getting the getting things nice and good and not dry or gamey or strong flavored. Um choosing your animal is also a good one. Everybody likes to hunt the rut because the bucks are dumbest in the rut. I mean, think about you and your early 20s at a nightclub at around midnight. You know, you're gonna make some bad decisions. Um, this is entirely what is going on with with bucks in rut. They're like they're thinking they got one thing on their mind, and it's it's not you in a tree or you in a ground blind. And that animal's gonna be kind of you know, testosterone up. And you know, he's been fighting. They're not the best in terms of uh meat quality, and it's it's been proven through science. It's like there's increased hormone levels, they lose fat and they lose body tone because they're fighting so much, they're they're expending so much energy. Um I'm not saying don't hunt the rye, but I'm saying know that that deer is gonna be very different from a pre-rot deer. The best quality uh venison you're going to get is pre-rot. Because they built themselves up for that moment. So they're gonna be fatter, they're gonna be stronger, they're gonna be calmer. Um so if you that early season hunt, and I'm you I can I can circle back to another reason why that early season hunt is important later, but um that's a that's a consideration. The age of an animal is another consideration for a good meal. It does not mean don't shoot old bucks. It does mean uh well, honestly, if you have if you have access to more than one tag, which most of us do, shoot a yearling. One of your tags should be a yearling, both for conservation management and because they are delicious. They are like deer veal is amazing. Like there's there's a the recipe that is in both books, it's in the old one and the new one because it's so good. It's roast venison with bavarian dumplings. And everyone gives me a hard time about this recipe because they're like, Oh, you used a pork roast next to it. Like, no, I did not. That is a yearling antelope. That is a leg roast from a yearling antelope in that picture, and it's as white as veal. And it's imagine cruelty-free veal, and like this is it, and it's amazing. So I highly recommend at least one of your tags be one of those deer. But but for an older deer, they could be equally good, but they do need to be aged because um, I mean, just think about it. Like, I'm I'm over 50, and I guarantee you I'm tougher than I was when I was 18, you know.

George Blitch 13:14

Mentally, physically, emotionally, yeah. I mean, I'm as I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was.

Deer Basics That Make Great Meat

George Blitch 13:22

Yes. I I understand that one very well, especially here in Texas, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Exactly. Uh so those are some like just basic, like right even before, like you haven't even taken a knife out at that point. Yeah. Um and so, but then once you go by there, uh you have a toughness issue of how long is that deer, how long has that deer been dead before you take a knife to it? And you've got really two choices if you want to do things really right. One is to, and I love this term, hot bone it, uh, which does not mean what you think it means. What it means is to get on an animal while it's still warm and not even in rigor yet. So a good test is um A, is it warm? B, can you move the legs? Do the legs still move? If the legs are stiff, it's already in rigor and you've as you're into the next phase. But if you can take a knife to your deer before it gets into rigor, um, start with the backstrap and the tenderloins.

unknown 14:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Because the biggest problem people have, and I hear this a lot, is I shot this doe or I shot this buck, and the, you know, I cut the backstrap off, and it was tough. Why was it tough? Well, chances are that deer was already in rigor mortise by the time you cut that meat off. And a tenderloin is still gonna be tenderloin, it's gonna be fine. It'll it will be tougher, but it will be still fine. But a backstrap can get genuinely tough if you cut it off while the deer is in rigor mortise. Because there's a thing called shortening. And so imagine my hands is like the length of a backstrap, and there we go. And so you you cut it off the off the bone while it's in rigor mortise. Everything is tense on the bone, and so when you cut it off in rigor, it goes it shortens. Sometimes you can actually see it. Um, it's a little bit like if you've worked with bread dough and you stretch out bread dough, but the gluten is still active, it shrinks back. It's the same kind of effect. But that creates toughness and denseness in in the backstrap that you you you it's hard, you can't really mechanically get rid of it. I mean, you can mechanically get rid of it, but it won't go away by itself. Right. Um, and so what you do is if you if you did that, sometimes you have to. If you're in the backcountry, you know, if you're five miles from the truck or whatever, whatever, and you just can't get to it before it's in rigor. Um you if you can keep it on the bone, but if you can't, you're probably gonna end up making like schnitzel or um cutlets or you know, Chinese food, or you know, chunk it up for like uh steak bits or chislic or something like that. It's not gonna be as good as steaks. It it'll be okay, but it's gonna be tougher than it should be. Um the the once it's in rigor, ideally you gotta let it stay in rigor. And it's that's a 24 to 48 hour process. And it's not like aging aging, but it's just you gotta let the thing rest. Um and for the love of God, please don't do and this is a Texas thing. Um submerging the damn deer in a cooler full of ice water for days and days and days is just I it makes me stabby. It's I I I I love you, Texas, but I don't love this about Texas. Like it's it's it does a whole bunch of things. There's bacterial problems if the if the water gets above 40 degrees, you've graciously created like a bacteria soup. Um you're you're the ice like ice touching meat gives it freezer burn on contact. And if it's a slurry, it's you're what you're doing is you're pulling out everything that is good about that venison. And I could see maybe brining some pieces of venison for like overnight, maybe if it's a ruddy old gross buck, but only in that situation. The white, tasteless, dry, bacterially active meat that comes out of that cooler is not something I really want to feed myself or my family. It's like you've basically ruined everything that is good about that deer um by soaking it in ice water for I've seen people do it for a week. And that's remarkable.

George Blitch 17:37

Like and and it's one of those things that I feel like if that's all you saw and that's all you know, that's what you do. And yes, there was a time where I always thought you put ice over that and you bleed out the meat, and I was young and didn't know because that's what I saw other people doing. And then, you know, I think it was a conversation that I heard from like Jesse Griffiths years ago, and I've also seen it, you know, you and other hunters who do and and chefs and cooks who talked about that. That like it just was like, oh yeah. And I started taking like water bottles and freezing those and using that as the ice in the cooler, and then having something between and having like a five mil bag that you put it in, like there was different steps that I started taking when I realized like I was I've been doing it all wrong, and then the quality of meat was like substantially different, and then you know, your processor's not sitting there and shaking their head when you bring it up to them as well. And then if you're doing it on your own and you get to the point where you're buying these amazing books and you're testing out these recipes from so many great wild game chefs out there, yourself included, of course, is that you're like, Oh, yeah, that tastes miles different than if you were going ahead, and it doesn't even take that. I mean, just sitting it on top of ice, it's a no-no. Have something in between there, do your work exactly, and it's like it doesn't take much to be able to have a different level of quality, and it you will taste it. And I mean, I've like I've been on the evolution of that, man. I've been that guy in the Texas i ice thinking, oh yeah, you just you know, drain all the media, you gotta get all the blood out because it's what you think, you hear, whatever. And doesn't matter what region you are, you see this all around, and those things that you talk about too getting to this quick, gutting it quick, getting the the skin off, all those things are paramount. But for people who are just beginning who might not know otherwise, and they might just watch a stupid YouTube clip that shows them, oh, this just do this. These are important things that the care and quality of what you do before you come into your kitchen is paramount on the experience that you'll have in your kitchen with your friends and family. Very much so.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

I mean, and then you know, I've studied a lot of meat science that that goes behind this, and um, you know, there are reasons for why I say what I say, and it's not just my opinion. Um, and it's it's been really interesting because the that's another reason why I updated the book for 10 years, because we know there's the meat science is advanced, specifically with venison. Um and because venison can be sold in well, I mean you can farm it and sell it in the United States, but uh wild venison can be sold in New Zealand and Australia and the United Kingdom and parts of Europe. So their meat scientists are doing all this kind of interesting research about you know flavor and tenderness and fat and all of the things. And it's I I'm kind of a nerd like that. So I've read I have an alert like whenever a scientific paper comes out on venison meat science, that's like, oh, cool, something new to read. And now imagine that accumulated over 10 years. And um, you know, CWD is different too, like the the the portion on that from 10 years ago versus now is very different. Um so it's like uh it's a book is a snapshot in time, and that snapshot, like for example, the book behind you on your right, The Hunt, Gather, Cook is my very first book. And I I I still love the essays in that book. I still love the message in that book, but man, am I I a lot of the recipes were like they're they're okay, they're fine, but like I really wish I could redo this book too. But I don't actually have I don't have possession of that book. That's a that's a uh Rodale book, and it's still in print, so it's still in print 15 years later, which is kind of cool. Yeah, um, but uh it means I can't revise it. So who knows? Maybe I'll write like gather hunt cook and and completely redo it.

George Blitch 21:26

Coming soon, 2027. I like that. Right? Well, it you know, and one of the things that I I think is kind of changed and and kind of that dynamic too, where a lot of times you had to have someone go and publish your book, and then one of the big you know, names or

Shot Placement Stress And Cooling Fast

George Blitch 21:40

or one of their divisions they're in were the ones who helped to get you noticed and get that out there and publicized and marketed. And you know, I I started a publishing company in 2003 with my friend Harvey Arden, who's today is actually his he's he passed, but it was his birthday, and like but we ended up putting out books that we felt publishers might Have passed on because we didn't care if it was a smaller number than what he would get with some of his big books. We just wanted to get something out that otherwise might not be. But now we're seeing it's a game changer with what you've done here with this book. You've reached out to your followers, the Hunt Gather, Cook, you and all the different, you know, social handles that you have, and all the folks who follow you there and who supported you from all these other books. And you said, Hey, I'm going to do a reprint, and you can pre-order. And I mean, you've got an amazing response to where you're able to self-financing these projects that 20 years ago, 15 years ago, maybe those weren't as as feasible or they wouldn't be as successful. I'd love for you to kind of talk about that because I feel like the you and I don't even call them fans, it's it's your friends, your your your followers, the the the supporters that stepped up and said, Yeah, I I want to be a part of this journey. And I think that that's something that is paramount in getting uh what you want in the book out to the people that you'd like to say it as you wish with the photos you want. And I think that's a huge thing that it just didn't it two decades ago. That wasn't a really a possible thing in the industry. It's true.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Like I think I I don't exist without my readers. Like, I mean I do, but like I don't exist, I don't exist publicly without my readers. And in fact, Buck Buck Boost is dedicated to the readers of Hunter Angla Gardner and Cook. And I started that website uh 19 years ago. And so it's funny, a guy I was talking to earlier uh was like, you should have a party for your 20th anniversary. I'm like, hell yeah, I should. Yes, I hadn't even thought about it, but I mean, I'm totally doing something. I'm big old hoot nanny for 2027, so stay tuned for that. But uh, but for almost 20 years, uh I've had this public presence, and the the the funny thing about Buck Buck Moose that you should mention is that that's my first um independently published book. So Duck Duck Goose, which is the Duck and Goose book, as you might imagine. Um that's a random house book. So I approached Random House with Buck Buck Moose, and they said, we think it's kind of a cool book, but we think it's two niche and we don't know how to sell it. So I'm like, you guys are high. Uh this is gonna be an amazing book, but I respect your uh admission that you don't know how to sell it. So I'm like, all right, well, so I ended up doing a Kickstarter for it. And uh the Kickstarter with I needed to raise a minimum of $36,000 just to do a bare bones book. I raised 106. And that allowed me to make the first book as nice as it is, and it became the prototype for all the other books that you you got behind you. And it's it's allowed me to make a series of high quality, high, you know, full color, hardcover books that lay flat, because everybody knows if you've got a a you know cookbook, it's gotta lay flat. Yes. That are made in the United States of America. Like one people people don't know that 95% of books made, you know, printed in and 95% of books in the United States are printed in China. And I'm sorry, I don't want to give my money to China. Like that's not what I'm all about. I'm my my entire project. Everybody involved in the project is is American. And you know, I think there's one Canadian, a proofreader's from Canadian, but that's that doesn't count. They're fine.

George Blitch 25:28

Isn't that the 51st state anyway? No. Don't get me started. No, I have Canadian friends. They they they are not gonna like that as much as the Dallas Cowboys fans are not going to like what we said earlier, but you know what? It is what it is, eh?

SPEAKER_01 25:42

I mean, so the you know, the book is printed in Illinois, it's warehouse in in Michigan, and you know, I live in Minnesota, so it's like kind of a Big Ten thing. Um But it allowed me to like the people allowed me to make this book, and then they responded. I mean, I sold over a hundred thousand copies of the first Buck Buck Moose, and so that it sells, it's it's sold more than any of my other books. The the next book is Duck Duck Goose, and um it has allowed me to go on this journey, and and it's it's constantly being reaffirmed by people, by by people who are like, you know, you're doing good work, keep doing what you're doing. We want to see more, we want to see improvement. And in this case, because um, have you seen like Rocky III where he fights Mr. T? Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna use this as an example. So in the beginning of Rocky III, he's like kind of a little fat and happy, and he gets his ass kicked by Mr. T. And because he was he he didn't take a he he made into too many assumptions. That was me in Borderlands. So I love Borderlands, I love this book to death. I am I will go to my grave loving this book because it's a love letter to the to Texas, Arizona, Southern California, border, we and then on the Mexican side as well. It's just I love that book. I think two things happened. One, uh, I think not enough people realized that it was a me book. Like there was fish and and wild film wild foraging, fishing, and hunting all throughout the whole book. Yeah. And I think that was a problem. So, and I think the other piece was um I expected that it was gonna be a big book. I thought I expected to be on Good Morning America. I expected to to like triple my audience because you know the border was in the news, and everybody loves Tex-Mex and everybody loves Mexican food, and you don't have

Rigor Mortis Hot Boning And Ice Myths

SPEAKER_01 27:35

to be a hunter to enjoy Borderlands. Like the recipes are in many cases, I actually made them all with game, but shh, but but like it might be said, it might be, I might be called to be for SMB, but it's totally venison. Right, right. And I think uh but but it was essentially like I'm I designed it so that you could do it with with store-bought meats. And so what I did was I got fat and happy. I hired a PR firm, I hired an ad agency, I printed way more books than I thought I was than you know, I've printed double the number of books as the first run of Buck Buck Moose. And so my I I I'll put it simply, I lost money on it, I lost a lot of money on it. And so then I came back, just like Rocky did, and I'm like, nope, we're going back to basics. I'm gonna strip all that away. I'm gonna, you know, drill down what I know at my cellular level. And what do you know at your cellular level? Deer. Like I I've been in and around deer and elk and pronghorn, moose to some extent, like forever. And you know, it's not technically forever, it's 25 years, but constant 25 years, that's enough. And um I've learned so much and I've been and I've hunted all over the country and in Canada and in Mexico that like the this is what I really truly know. I have a lot more to say than I did 10 years ago. And I wanted to go back to basics, and I've been really, really grateful that everybody out there has uh appreciated that and has supported me in this. And the book, Knock on Wood, is this close to being completely paid off. And the book has only been out for a couple of weeks. And that level of support from everyone listening to this and beyond has been like I'm going to have a brown beard again. I'm so less stressed because that can happen.

George Blitch 29:33

Hold on, wait, really?

unknown 29:35

Shh die.

George Blitch 29:39

No, it can't happen. I I can't. I can't.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

This is these are like this, like wisdom marks, you know, at a certain age, you know, you're like, well, when you get to be my age, you gotta keep it short, otherwise you look like you know, Grizzly Adams or something, and I'm not ready to look like Grizzly Adams. Well, maybe when I'm 70.

George Blitch 29:53

When I get fat and happy, you know, and I get the long beard, I'll do the Santa thing, and you know, we'll rock that out. There's there's a second career there. Well, you know, you talked about the support, and I and I know that in in you know, one of your recent newsletters, you kind of thanked everybody and you kind of broke down the numbers and stuff there too. Um, you know, just while I was thinking about that, I want you to go ahead and and make sure you're mentioning that newsletter because it's something that keeps you up to date with all the different things you got going. You got some events coming up too. I know there's an October 8th event where you're gonna be doing some signing and and some QA and everything. And just kind of, you know, if there's any other events, I'd love for you to plug them now. But I I really feel like that newsletter is a great gateway for people, um, not only just going to your website, but kind of getting, you know, the the info on what you got going or what's happening in the field. Obviously, we're running into hunting seasons. There's gonna be some recipes that may be dealing with the different uh you know seasons of animals that are coming up. So let's let's make sure we plug that real quick before I forget.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

So the what you the one you're talking about is the wild bites newsletter, and you do that by going to huntgathercook.com. And that is, by the way, the only way to get a signed copy from me. Um, if you buy my book through my site, which is huntgathercook.com, um, you'll get it signed, number one, and then it's directly for me. So you cut out all the middleman. Um, and but that's where you can sign up for the wild bites newsletter, and that comes out basically every other week, and it's a snapshot in time nationally. Because I've fished and hunted and foraged all over the country and in Canada. Um what you've got is like uh, you know, this is what's in season now, this is what people are doing now. And like these are the the recipes that you might want to think about and make now. Um, and then it also includes uh all of the updates on sort of what I'm doing and what what my events are. Uh, and then the bottom is kind of a letter to everybody, like that's just personally for me. Um, it also includes a section with my other newsletter, which is to the bone. And to the bone is a substack. And that is um, I think people sometimes forget that uh I've been a chef, but I've also was a journalist for for many years. And so I'm at my core, both a writer and and a cook. And so Substack, the to the bone is really where I get to write. And the the entire purpose of that newsletter is to really write about life. I write about the the intersection of nature and life. So it's always the touch point is always foraging or hunting or fishing, or just sometimes just the garden. And you can you can really explore basically all of life's all of life's questions, taking and giving and letting go and love and loss and and aging and and even death. And that's where I get to do that on to the bone. And um it's been really rewarding. So, but the the in terms of like the mechanical stuff to find the recipes to new the new techniques and the the where I'm gonna be uh or what's going on behind the scenes, it's uh wildbites from huntgathercook.com.

George Blitch 32:49

Well, and and I love both of those because I I do love the journalist uh journalistic aspect of what you bring to the table. I mean, Borderlands, like you said, it is a love letter in that book. And I love to read those different stories. There's a few other wild game chefs that I know who they weave that so well and they're really good writers. Uh, you know, and and I'd love what you've done with with your books and having some stories and having you know the background of things too, because it it I think it's really an I mean, you're a great writer and it's an important thing to have that reading. Um, you know, recipes are are are awesome, but it gives you a flavor of who you are too. And I love that in those newsletters, you kind of dive into other topics aside from just you know what's happening in the kitchen or in the field, and uh, but you draw them all together because they all are connected there. And I so I strongly encourage everyone to to sign up for both of those and of course visit your website. And and whenever you get a chance to be able to buy a book from an author and support them directly, I think that's paramount to do. And of course, hey, it's really cool to get a signed copy of a book as well. So bonus win-win-win, right? But um, you know, I highly encourage everyone. I'll have all the show notes below to for everyone to order, of course. Um, you know, I want to get into a few of the recipes that you've included in the new book, um, but I also want to tackle this because I know we kind of talked to a little bit, we've talked about you know some older bucks and and aging and and dealing with that because I've had some friends that like one of my buddies killed a buck at a ranch. It ended up being 11 years old. And my buddy Colin was like, dude, low fence, southwest Texas. Was this thing eating like you know, oatmeal or something? It had it couldn't have had any teeth. There were no teeth left. Um, you know, most people use a nice Montana knife company knife or something to chop that up. He had to use a chainsaw, it was so tough. But uh, you know, just for the backstrap alone, exactly. Yeah, you you saw the video. Um, but no, it was it was crazy, but he was just like, man, it was inedible. But I know that there are certain parts that some people, man, things are tough, and you need to kind of break down a meat. And one of the the the lines you've that I've I've seen in in this book, and you've talked about is like people tend to cook the tender parts of the deer too much and the tough parts too little. There is a way in it to be able, you know, see the backstrap, right? People are like, Oh yeah, I cooked it, it's 165. It's like, no, no, what did you do? No, like, first off, eat that raw if you need to. It's delicious, heart too, but just cook it a

Meat Science Updates And Reader Feedback

George Blitch 35:10

little bit. And I think when people taste the like something like a backstrap, and they're like, Oh, you can cook this like a medium rare, and it's going to be more tender and delicious. You're gonna enjoy it more than if you do that overcooked, well done. And I think people have a tendency to think wild game has to be cooked at a certain temperature to be safe, and I think they don't understand that's like that's probably one of the safest meats you're gonna get. It's not gone through the pharmaceutical process and industrial farming and all this and have all these extra chemicals, these they are high nutritious, um, delicious foods. And so, anyway, we can go on tangents about that. But that idea of little cooking or a lot of cooking, and I'd love for you to address that because that that's at every time I'm I'm going through that book and looking at stuff, that line just keeps hitting me. And I think it's important to talk about to those who are beginning maybe for cooking in the kitchen their wild game for the first time and not going processor-based.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I mean, even if you get your meat back from the processor, this applies. So the I'll start with the the two the too much part. So you see this with duck breasts, you see this with pheasant, you see it sometimes with quail, uh, you see it with salmon, you definitely see it with deer. Um so you'll see it often. And it's we're talking about the tender cuts. So in the case of a venison, we're talking anything that's a steak, the tenderloin, backstrap, even a hind leg steak. Um anything you want to eat pink. You know, the the idea of the 165 is is nonsense. Yes, I know it's USDA, but you know, the USDA also gave us many, many, many meat recalls in recent years. So like I you take that for what you want. Um the I do have an extensive food safety section in Buck Buck Moose, and I've done all the research that I could. Um, and I found almost no cases of food poisoning from venison. Um virtually none. So the the this is why I have raw venison recipes in the book because it's safe to eat. Um the thing about this is that 165 gets it in people's heads, and then you you you I don't even I can't I can't like 160 oh god gross. Like I think about it, rare, dead rare is 120. And I like it like 130, 135. So like medium rare to medium. Um I don't love super rare meat, a lot of people do, it's fine. Um I just I like it just barely fully cooked, you know, like pink but juicy. Yeah. So that's typically medium rare. And it's completely safe to do that. And then but here's a couple things that are getting in people's way. One, um you do need to know that it's safe to do that. So that's one. Two, um fat is an insulator, right? So if you cook a ribeye, especially a good ribeye that's got marbling, the fat that's within the meat is is the insulating act. It is your insurance policy against screwing it up. So even if you were to cook that ribeye a little over, the intramuscular marbled fat within the steak is gonna save your butt. There is none of that in venison. So the lack of fat allows the temperature within the steak, within any or roast as well, or anything, to rise and fall very quickly. So it's because you're heating water, not fat. And what's going on is you can go from 120 internal temperature in venison to 140 in the space of a minute or two minutes, which that's never going to happen with a beefsteak because of the marbling. So the what's the takeaway? The takeaway is A, know that it can be cooked rare, B, know that it can get rise in temperature very quickly. And C, if you're worried, if you're learning, if you're still a Padawan and not yet a Jedi, you should always err by cooking it too little. You can always cook something more. You can't uncook something. So if you're going to be nervous, if you're going to um be worried and you don't have your game totally nailed down, err on the side of undercooking it because you can fix that. You can't fix it overcooked. I mean you can. You can use it in something else, but it's not gonna be a terrible steak. This is why A1 steak sauce exists is for horribly cooked, 165, 170 degree steaks that are just not good, like truck stop steaks at two in the morning kind of thing. Like not good. Like so the flip side is is they're cooking the tough parts too little. And you see this with shoulders, with shanks, uh, with neck meat. Uh, you also see it heavily with like pheasant legs and wild turkey legs, um, goose legs, um, goose wings, you know. All of these cuts work, they work hard. And so the connective tissue on them is very strong, and the muscles themselves are very strong, and so much stronger than really anything you're ever going to see in the domestic world. So the oldest thing you can possibly cook if you just went to a supermarket is a stewing hen. And even those are hard to find. Those are four or five-year-old uh former laying chickens that are they stopped laying, so they get got. And they are they make the best chicken soup you will ever eat in your life, but it's going to take you a couple, two, three hours to cook that stewing hen to to to until it gets tender. Beef. I've rarely seen beef that's over the over two years old. And a lot of it's 18 months. And everything else is younger than that. Like take a guess how old the average frying chicken is. I don't know. Months? What do we got? Six weeks. Six weeks? Yep. Okay. Six. Not even two months. So often not even two months. And the only thing in the that's so young. The only thing the only wild equivalent we have with that is doves. Right. Like it's not uncommon to kill, you know, 36, 38-day old doves. And even then, they're like, God, what's wrong with this dove? It's like we've all shot him. We're like, ugh, there's still milk on its lips. Jesus. Um so yeah, like the the age difference really, really, really matters. And the only thing I often ask of people who cook my recipes is time. Most of my recipes are not technically difficult. Um, number of them will take some time. Like, let's say you're an 11-year-old buck. The shanks on that thing are gonna be delicious, but they might take four hours to get tender. They might take five. So cook accordingly. And you know, whenever I have something that's like that, we're like, oh no, no, no. If it's I don't know how many hours it's gonna take to get tender, don't start that thing at 5 p.m. You know, start that thing, you know, that's a kind of a deal like you start on football Sunday. So you start it and you know, get your coffee, do your puzzles or whatever, and you know, start the dish, have it stirring on the pot, go turn on the cowboys, watch them lose, check and see if the uh check and see if it's tender after the cowboys are crying in the in the on the sidelines. And if it's not tender, watch the second game and then you can watch the Texans lose. And man, just both both I I thought we were safe with the Texans over here. I actually don't, I don't, I don't dislike the Texans. I was an Oilers guys. They're not having a good year, so no, no.

George Blitch 42:37

I mean, that is a pretty fair statement. Most years in our historical. I was an Oilers guy, and then we lost the Oilers, and I went up to Boston and they had a team called the Patriots, and you root for your your you know, your local team, and I was like, this is what it feels like to root for a winning team. So you root for the great Satan, okay, and I you know, honestly, I'm not the biggest football fan. I ended up playing in semi-pro football as a kicker because I was a soccer player, so I kicked I kicked, yes, the the the the heart of the team, right? Yes, no, I'm no

Kickstarter Publishing And Going Back To Deer

George Blitch 43:10

one of the team's leading scorer. I maybe I was with when I was with the Charlestown townies, but like that was fun because I was with a bunch of guys that that were former pros and things too, but that town is rough, and to the point when we'd go and play for Connecticut, uh no, it's uh Charlestown townies just outside of Boston. Oh, okay. And we had a when we go to Way games, it'd be like you'd have 70 guys on the roster, and then they go to like 35. And I was like, what? Why why did all the people like well their probation doesn't allow them to cross state lines? So that that's when I realized what kind of team I was on, man.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

So it's like it's not unlike working in the restaurant industry. Exactly, exactly.

George Blitch 43:52

Why is someone not here? They had to go check in with their probation officer today, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Does Joe have a black teardrop next to his item as a tattoo? I don't know.

George Blitch 44:00

That seems weird, but like he's got a funny thing on his ankle. Did he hurt himself? No, that's that's not an ice pack. But yeah, no, it uh back to that. The idea of like some of these, some of these things you you can't start at the end of the night. I've done it myself. It's like okay at eight o'clock and put some in the slow cooker, then you're up to one, you know, or whatever it is. Like start it and then you can check it throughout the day. Make sure I just did some wild uh turkey legs the other day in a slow cooker, and you know, I'm thinking about that particular time. Oh, yeah, it'll be done here. No, it's not done. It's not done until it's done, but you got to keep checking back to find out when's the proper time to remove it and then deal with that and take it off the bone and all that. And whether it's a shanks or whatever, some things just take time and it depends on the different animal, it depends on the age, perhaps. And so you got to treat everything as it is, and you got to give some of those things time to do what they need to do.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

You know, yeah, you're the way I deal it is you have to, I've written about this. It's called embracing chaos because um with domestic meats, with store-bought meats, they're all about this. So a pork chops, pork chops, pork chop, they're all about the same age. So we all butcher our domesticated animals roughly at the same age. And so the cook times and the sizes are all pretty uniform, you know, plus or minus. Uh that's why that's why the Angus cattle are are the coin of the realm right now, because an Angus is a certain size, the ribeye is a certain size. It's like it's it's become the standard. Where honestly, if if I had my druthers, I would much rather eat a cherry. It's a big giant white cow that is that just has better meat. And but the ribeye is like that big, right? So it's uh it's awesome, but it's harder for people to market it because you know, who wants you know a 36 ounce, 40 ounce ribeye? I'm like, I do, but uh, but not everybody else does. Sure. Um so with wild stuff, that you got the 11-year-old buck, you've got a moose, you've got you know, all of these things, you've got size and age differences and species, and uh all of those things it makes it chaotic. Birds are even worse, right? Because you know, you could shoot a yearling Canada goose, or you literally could shoot a 30-year-old Canada goose. Like that's a thing. Yeah, there are 30-year-old Canada goose flying out there. And I don't know about you, but um I'd be a little tougher 33 years later than like so. I mean, it's just it's just it's the nature of of what we do is that you have to be um either attentive or just be okay with cooking the crap out of something, which I'll I'll I'll tell you about your turkey legs. Um, first of all, I separate the drumsticks from the thighs. Um so if I'm just cooking drumsticks, they are the perfect thing to put in a crock pot like after dinner and let them go all night long. Yep. Because you really can't overcook turkey legs because you're gonna pull the meat anyway and probably shred it and do something else with it. So who cares if it was ready at four in the morning and you don't check it till seven in the morning? It's fine. It's gonna be fine. Um shanks are a little different because you want shanks to stay on the bone, um, at least a little bit. Um but the the other, I will give you something that is uh setter and forget it, that's uh one of my favorite new recipes in the cookbook. It's uh a Swedish recipe called frost bump venison. Uh gel nol is the Swedish word for it. And uh I love this recipe because so let's say you eat your dinner uh and you're like, you know what, I think I want to make this. So you've you're already done with dinner. So you just pay take a piece of venison, a roast, usually a hind leg roast, out of the freezer, unwrap it, put it on a sheet tray, pop it in a 200-degree oven, or even 175-degree oven, frozen, dead ass frozen, and close it to close that door, and then you make yourself up a little brine. You know, a soup pot full of water, salt, pickling spices, bay leaves, you name it, you do you. I've got a suggested, you know, mix, but who cares? You know, you do you. It just has to have salt in it, salt in the water. You bring that to a boil, put the top on, let it go. Go watch a TV show, go drink some whiskey, you know, go to bed. And when you wake up in the morning, that meat's gonna be perfectly done. It'd be probably about medium, depending on the size. And that broth, that brine will have you know taken on a huge amount of flavor. You just pop that meat right into the brine. And if you live in Minnesota like I do, you just put it outside. But in in a warmer place like Texas, uh, you put it in the fridge and then go to work. Work all day, you know, do your thing, and then that dinner is already done. You just pull it out of the brine, slice it, and eat it. And you could use it for lunches. I love it on rye on rye bread with um with horseradish and sour cream and dill. And it is it's the easiest thing you could possibly do. It's insanely easy, and um, it's one of my favorite sort of time saver, set it, forget it kind of recipes in the book.

George Blitch 48:52

Well, and those are so important too. Our daily lives, everyone gets busy, and some people think they have to make a huge production of all of the oh, well, it's this, you know, I'm gonna share with friends and family. And you know, hey, that's great, man. I mean, it by all means, and you you know, I I mean, I remember seeing the picture you have like the venison and you cut it out into like the thirds uh the backstrap, and it's like, save this center cut for date night. Like, there are certain times you want to have a great presentation, you want to like have you know something that you really spend a lot of time on. But some sometimes, man, I want to do something that is quick, set it and forget it kind of thing, and I can still enjoy my wild game, but I maybe it's not as big of a production, and those kinds of recipes are key for that. And I love that you have such a you know a myriad of of those different things. Hey, this one will take a couple hours prep time, make take five hours of cooking. This one, you can get this going in 20 minutes and then you can go out the door, whatever that is. So I I I I love the idea that this book, you know, early version and this version, of course, encapsulates all

Newsletters Signed Copies And The Webinar

George Blitch 49:50

encapsulates all of that. Um, and you know, kind of thinking about that, you know, new recipe you have. Is there another recipe or two that you'd like to share to kind of you know, you know, give give the palette a little a little teasing here on on what are some of the things that uh you found important to include that I think people and your readers will really enjoy?

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Uh I expanded the the charcuterie section a lot. So the cured meats, sausages, and then sort of projects like that. And the two that are springing to mind right now, um, another Swedish dish, uh, it's a sausage. Uh it's called Stankorv. And it's it's insane sausage that like, what uh okay, so it's like a regular sauce, they typically eat it with breakfast. Um so it's a typical kind of medium ground uh like think of a real medium ground deer sausage, and it's you know but mixed into the meat mixture is cooked barley. So the effect is essentially Swedish boudin. Because instead of rice, you got this barley going on. And what's really fascinating is they'll they'll taste the sausage tight and they'll hang it in a cool place for like two days or three days. And what happens is that there's so much uh lactic acid uh bacteria in that in that mix that it makes the meat tangy, right? Like super tangy. And you don't need any special salt or any special cure or anything, because it's only you're only hanging it in a cool place for a couple days, like below 60 degrees. Um because 60 degrees, you should know it's like when listeria start to show up, so it's got to be below that. Um you can even put it in the fridge if you wanted. But uh the net result is this like tangy, savory, like the sage is one of the bigger uh flavors in it, just like regular breakfast sausage. It's so good. And it's just this weird, like new technique that I that I'd like, well, what is this? I have to try it. And then it's like, god dang, this is good. So that got in there. Um, and then another, you know, kind of a tandem one is both they're both British. One is the the the raised meat pies, those raised game pies. Like that's a it's a sturdy ass grain, you know, thing that you could take into the deer blind. And like it's they're so good in cold weather. And the only thing I would say, like, if you make one, you it's because they're a little bit of a production, but A, they last for like 10 days, so you can make them way ahead of time and they're eaten cold. So it's not like something you you know, it's when you want it, when they're made, they're right there. The only thing I will say to you is eat it with mustard or pickles because you need something acidic because it's kind of a gut bomb in the sense of like you will get the meat sweats, but but it's fantastic. And then the other one uh is a British mincemeat pie. So Christmas is coming. Uh I think a lot of people forgot that mincemeat really does have minced meat in it, and traditionally it was venison. And um, God, they're good. They're little, they're like little pies like this big. And I, you know, Holly and I, when we first made them, I think we ate like 12 at the first sitting. It was like, we should stop. But it's like it's all the things that minced meat. So it's dried fruit and and a little bit of booze and um and sugar and spices, but it also has ground venison in it. And you might think this is weird, but it really works. And especially in this little pie, oh my god, are they good? Like crazy good. So, like, this is a thing, and they also last for a bunch of days in the fridge. So you could make them on like a Sunday and eat off them all week. Um, they are great to bring to parties um and they will blow people away. Like, this is one of like if you want to like be the star of your of your dinner party or of your potlock or whatever, bring mincemeat pies. And people will be like, what the hell? This is amazing. What is this? And it's just it's uh again, it's one of those things where you can make the mincemeat mixture, the the filling, a month in advance because it's it's preserved with like some booze and uh spices and stuff. It'll sit in your freezer for like a month. And in fact, it's better after sitting for a little while. And then you can make the pies whenever you get a chance. So I there's a lot of recipes like that that um that are, you know, I can give you like the two-step, and um, you know, you can make it ahead or it's it's you or you can hold it or they freeze well. And it because if I I've realized over the last 10 years that if I'm gonna ask you to do something that takes time, you should be able to enjoy it more than just like the 30 minutes after you spent four hours making it. So I've I've included a lot of recipes where you know, kind of make it and then eat off it, kind of deal.

George Blitch 54:29

Well, I mean, I I'd love the uh inclusion of of those and a lot of other ones. I mean, I I've kind of was looking at at both books side by side, because obviously I obviously have the early version and just kind of seeing the inclusion, the photos. This is a really great update, the evolution of of your thoughts of what you want to have represent with buckbuck moose. And I just I encourage everyone, um, you're not buying the same book, you're buying something new, you're you're buying uh great new recipes, you're you're supporting Hank. You're also having some incredible new photography at play, um, like the butchery stuff we talked about as well. There's there's a lot of things that you're getting with this. It's it is kind of a new book in that sense too, and I think it's it's worth uh visiting for everyone. So um, you know, definitely, you know, we've talked about your website, I'll have those in the show notes. Um, as far as socials, uh why don't you go ahead and give people a social so they can go ahead and know where to follow you and uh kind of get stay up to date with what you got going on?

SPEAKER_01 55:23

I think the the best place to find me on social media is Instagram. Um uh I'm on Facebook, I have a Facebook group called Hunt Gathercook, but for me, Instagram is where kind of where it's at these days. And I'm Hunt Gathercook on Instagram, and you can just I'm you can find me by my name. Uh I am on there pretty much every day, uh unless I'm in the field, and I answer questions and I answer lots of questions. So um that is a good way to get to me. Uh that newsletter, the Wild Bites newsletter, is a great good way to get to me. To the bone is a good way to get to me. And uh I'm basically I'm one of those three on any given day. And one of the things that I want to emphasize is that is it's important to me to be a research for a resource for you. So um I can't tell you how much how many questions I've answered, thousands of questions over the last 10 years about venison and other things. Um, and it's important to me to be able to be that resource because um what good is knowledge if you keep it secret?

George Blitch 56:23

100%, man. No, I I love that you do that. Um, and you know, I I encourage everyone to follow for any events that you got going on. Obviously, you got the October 8th, and uh there's yeah, October 8th is gonna be a webinar.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

So it's gonna be online, and the only way to get into it is to buy directly from me. So there's

Cook Tender Cuts Less Tough Cuts Longer

SPEAKER_01 56:40

that's the incentive. So if you do buy a book from me on huntgathercook.com, uh you'll get a uh a time, uh place, and a code to let you into the webinar. And um, it's basically I'm gonna do a presentation about um all things venison to start, but the real meat of it's gonna be come at come with questions, you know, come with you know, stump the chump, man. Like, you know, ask me whatever. And it doesn't have to be venison, it can be anything wild food related. And you know, it could be foraging, mushrooms, fish, small game, you name it. And um, I'll see. I'm I bet you I can answer most of them, but maybe not everything. So uh that's gonna be super fun.

George Blitch 57:18

I've got one for you right now when I was bringing it is do you have a recipe called Hank Shaw Shank Redemption yet? Is there something there? I really should. I feel like I feel like it's just there, man. There's gotta be some Shaw Shank, you know, something in there.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Okay. I don't, but like I have so many Shank recipes. I actually even added Shank recipes in the new version, but like it to me, it would have to be like um to me, I think it would have to be Chefy. To me, it would have to be like if it's the redemption, it's gonna be like, all right, mothers, you're like, I'm gonna make this like the mother of all shank recipes. Yes. Okay.

George Blitch 57:56

There's the there there it is. So I'm not gonna stump you because I know you'll you'll make this happen. But I just figured, I mean, listen, with Blitch, I had to go son of a blitch, right? Right things. And when you talk about one of the greatest movies of all time, as far as classic, you know, rewatches that comes on the TV, you're like, oh yeah. I mean, I don't know if people watch TV anymore. Now it's all the streaming, but you know, it it Shawshank was incredible. So yes, I felt like there's something there at play that I just had to bring up because I know you love Shanks, you talk about it, you got some great recipes for them. I've cooked them. Oh, and speaking of which of recipes, um, the Creole okra gumbo recipe you did. Oh, yeah, I had an in and just way too much okra, which actually that's not a thing. I had a lot of okra, and I was like, What can I do with this? And I don't even know how I stumbled upon that recipe, but I did. I was looking at okra recipes and I was like, wait, let me go through. And I found that one. That is an incredible. We use wild shrimp that was fresh caught by uh my neighbor. Uh, I used uh some venison in there, of course. And man, that and just uh all sorts of the local bell peppers from my my garden and being able to source some things from the garden, wild game was all around incredible, but that was a great recipe, by the way. So I'd highly encourage everyone to look up all your recipes on your website because there are a lot of things you can use in your garden that you've hunted, you've gathered, and of course, that is the epitome of what the website is all about and your movement there. So uh yeah, just wanted to give you kudos on that one, man. Really enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

There's like 1500 recipes on that website. Like I think I even have like I might even have a full dozen okra recipes on that website because I love okra. I I miss it. You can't really grow it in California or in uh Minnesota. Yeah, like there's one variety I think I could grow um that's like a 60-day variety, but okra likes it hot, and we don't get super hot. We rarely get above 90 here.

George Blitch 59:41

So well, in Texas, I mean I that is one of the things I always plant because I and we got a recent new house, and I have a bunch of raised garden beds, and it's like okra, okra, okre, okra. And every day I'm out there, man. My kiddo's like, I don't know if I like fried okra. I was like, I don't think you've really had it before. It's not like some thing before it's gotta be like pinky size. Yes, yeah, oh totally. You some people are like, look at this okra I have, it's this big. It's like that's great for a stew. Maybe like I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

After oh, yeah, once it gets hard on the outside, yeah.

George Blitch 1:00:10

No, you can't do much with it. That's like like the Here's one for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

You grow a lot of okra, yeah. So here's a here's the secret one. Okay. So I learned this um in an old, old Nebraska cookbook of all things. If you take okra seeds, like ripe okra seeds, and you toast them until they're dark brown, and and some of them start to pop, and then you grind them into a into a you know a coarse powder, it is a coffee substitute. What? Yeah, like no caffeine, but it's like so there's all of these things like dandelion roots and and chicory and Kentucky coffee tree beans, ochre seeds are another coffee substitute for when real coffee wasn't available, and it tastes damn good. Like it's shockingly good. And like, so what I like to do is go 50-50 with regular coffee because I still want some of that caffeine. Yeah, yeah. Um, but it's like who knew? Like it's some somebody in the prairie, or you know, somebody somewhere was like, you know, if we roasted this and we ground it up, it'd be pretty damn good.

George Blitch 1:01:12

And they were right, dude. Thanks. I'm gonna try that out. I mean, the other thing I've done this year with all this, because sometimes when you're growing and you have whatever it is, 30 or 40 different jalapenos you're picking over a two-day span, you're like, How much cowboy candy can you eat? It exactly. So, what I've done is I went, I was like, all right, wait, I got a dehydrator, let's go ahead and do this, and then let's go. And so the idea I was like, Oh, wait, I can grind and make my own spices. Like, I don't know why it didn't occur to me years ago because I'd always dehydrate and I'd kind of throw them in some soups or something, or you know, kind of reconstitute them as you know, there's a lot of different, you know, different types of chilies and things with these peppers that I've used, but man, this year just there's so many different types that I I grew. I think I've had like nine different vitals of different peppers, and so I was like, all right, I'm gonna make the the blitch special here and just grind it up. And for those who dare, because some of those are pretty dang hot. But I love the idea that you can take something in your garden and preserve it, and you've talked about this before, too. And like, even just like you talked about, you cook something, hey, this meal can last for 10 days in the fridge. You know, these mincemeat pies are great for a week, you can eat off and you take them cold, take them to the deer stand, and get some more, you know, venison for your freezer. So there's there's a lot that I feel like um you can cue into that, and I think your website is a perfect source of that. So, again, I encourage everyone to do that. Go pick up the book, support Hank wherever you can. And

Okra Tricks Garden Preserving And Goodbye

George Blitch 1:02:30

Hank, once again, I really appreciate you coming on, and I always enjoy talking to you. I already look forward to the next time, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

Absolutely. Let's uh let's do something with fish at some point. That'd be fun.

George Blitch 1:02:39

I'm down with that. Okay. Well, I'll put that on the calendar, man. We'll we'll do that up. Hey, and uh good luck this season with all you know your your hunts and everything. And uh maybe we'll do like a little recap at the end of the season, just talk about what we got in our freezers and and uh you know kind of give some people hey, you got stuff in your freezers? What are you gonna do? Let's uh let's go from there. Yeah, I should be full up by January at some point.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

Like I think I think uh especially here, because you know it's 20 below zero in January here, so get it done before then, yes.

George Blitch 1:03:09

Exactly, otherwise you die. You and your animal look side by side. Friends forever. Well, cool, man. Thanks again, Hank. We'll talk soon, buddy. And everyone, go check out the links uh below and uh yeah, go get your new copy of Buck Buck Moose. You'd be glad you did. Thanks a lot for having me on. Cheers, man.