Origins And First Safari Break

George Blitch 0:14

Hey Tyler, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today, man?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

I am good. Thanks for having me. I appreciate being here and uh nice to be face to face.

George Blitch 0:22

Yeah, indeed. I've been following you guys for a long time with Modern Huntsman, uh, some amazing publications and cookbook, and we'll be talking about all that. But, you know, with a lot of the guests, I like to give a little bit of uh introduction to the listeners and viewers. Why don't you tell me a little bit about where you grew up, kind of how you got involved with your love for the wild and uh, you know, kind of bringing in multimedia and doing some of the uh the work that you've kind of been doing, and then we'll kind of you know thread that through to you know your travels around the world and how that eventually made its way into Modern Huntsman. So I know it's a lot there at the very beginning, but let's just kind of give a little bit of intro and then we'll string it along.

Culture Shock And Purpose After Africa

Filming Worldwide And Finding A Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Sure. Sounds good. Uh well, many moons ago, uh I mean I I pretty much grew up in Texas, um, a combination of Austin and then Grapevine, which is in between Dallas and Fort Worth. Um, did not grow up a hunter. Uh I was always in the outdoors. I was always catching snakes and reptiles and turtles and you know, anything, anything basically. Um, and you know, my dad was super corporate. He worked for Pepsi and was like the senior vice president of sales and marketing. So it was like the whole Shaq Cindy Crawford era. So I went on a core couple of like corporate Pepsi duck hunts that were not, you know, uh true wild experiences, but it piqued my interest and it was something that I was always interested in. I just never had someone to show me or introduce me or or take me. Um and I had been, you know, hunting a few times, but that's just sort of like the background thread. And then I ended up going to uh moved to Los Angeles. I went to USC Film School. And um, when I got there, that was obviously an expanded horizon between besides growing up in Texas and uh fast forward, you know, had some amazing photography film classes, uh, found out, turns out I'm not a city person. So I spent a lot of my time in Los Angeles trying to escape Los Angeles and go to the Angeles National Forest or Big Sur or Joshua Tree or Death Valley. And that's that's when I started to really get more interested in um nature as an experience and documenting that experience in some way or another. And, you know, I I don't really know how to describe this other than fate or destiny or whatever you want to call it, but it just so happened that I just got lucky and my first job out of college was uh in Tanzania with an with a hunting outfitter. And just out of nowhere, literally my dad had had a conversation with uh a guy that owned a home. It was called You Edit Videos, like you bring your videos in and they edit it for you. And the safari company, Safari company owner walked in and uh was looking for someone to help them make DVDs and film hunts for clients. And my dad was like, Well, my son's at USC film school, you should hire him. And they were like, Okay. So I got a phone call from him in like May of 2006 that's like, you know, hey, T, my dad calls me T. Um, I got, you know, I sent that package, and I think we're gonna come up for graduation. And uh also I think we might have got you a job in Tanzania when you graduate. So needless to say, I was pretty excited about that. I had never been to Africa, I hadn't really ever been involved in filming hunts or anything like that. And I was really excited. But when I told a lot of my friends and colleagues and professors in Los Angeles that I got this job, because you know, everyone's 22, you're scrambling, like, how the hell do I, you know, like provide for myself? And instead of excitement, a lot of people had these emotional and in some cases, like not violent, but just aggressive reactions where they were upset and, you know, how could you do this? You're going to film a bunch of rich white people killing endangered species. And I was not prepared for that reaction. I didn't know what to say. I hadn't been, I didn't know how it worked, so I couldn't justify it or defend myself in any way. I was just like, damn, well, I was excited about this, and you're clearly not. So that was just sort of the experience I had. Left LA, went back to Grapevine, sold a bunch of stuff, go to the bush in Africa, and lived in the middle of nowhere for six months in, and this was 2006, it was before before iPhones or anything. There was literally a radio in camp, and then, you know, maybe one of the clients had like an iridium, one of those giant iridium satellite phones. Um, so I was pretty disconnected and um yeah, had it had an incredibly life-changing experience. Um, I mean, just about anything you can be chased and bit and scratched and and charged by. I was lions came into my tent and black mambas came into the bathroom and all kinds of crazy stuff. Um, and as I think about that, and as I've told these stories before, it's kind of amazing to think like how many times I could have died in that six months between all those things. Um, but I didn't. And I feel like, you know, metaphorically say I went through a boy and came back a man. Um, but when I came home, had this pretty, pretty crazy culture shock where I was living uh a life in complete harmony and in concert with nature. I wasn't I could tell you within five minutes what time of day it was by looking at the sun. Um, you know, I learned how to track, which I don't know if you spent time in Africa, but watching those guys is an incredibly almost mystical experience. These guys have like a way of interpreting something that isn't explainable. Um, and I was like irritable and I was like trying to get in fights with people about how they were complaining about their flat tire they got on their way to work that ruined their day. And so I had to reel that back a little bit and be like, okay, we gotta we gotta find a balance. Um, but I became obsessed and was really unhappy uh just being in normal society and wanted to just find a way to go back to Africa and found out about Dallas Safari Club. So I went to that in 2007 for the first time and literally just threw a book together. Um wait, uh there's a there's a side note. Uh the company I worked for in Africa didn't pay me, my visa expired, they never got my work permit, and the owner like fled the country. This is not a great case study, right? This is an outfitter who's no longer an outfitter, and that's the reason because they didn't abide by the proper ethics and rules. So I'm in the bush, I'm 22, I have no money, and I realize I'm overstayed my visa, and I'm like, how the how does this work? Do am I gonna get arrested? Am I gonna get fined? I don't have any money. And you know, some of the guys, um, the Tanzanian guys are like, you know, I uh I'm not Shida Bonia. You put the money in the passport, no problem. I'm like, you want me to grease the customs officer? Ah yeah, twende, let's go. And so I they take me to the airport, I I put a hundred dollar bill over my expired visa. Guy opens it up, takes the money out, stamps it, Safari and Jamma, like on your way. Um, so that's that's when I came back. And then, anyways, went to this trade show, made a book, made a you know, little DVD of the footage, just trying to find a way to get back. And um, and and yeah, I ended up meeting um a family and a guy named Larry Knowlton, who's an incredibly uh well-traveled hunter. Um, his son Corey Knowlton worked with Jim Shockey for a long time, booking hunts and doing TV shows. So I got kind of pulled into that world. Um, and it long story short, uh it through filming with them, went to you know over 30 countries in three years, all over the world. Um, filming, hunting, fishing, outdoor adventures, things like that. And uh the photos I was taking and the stuff I was writing was just for myself because I was, you know, clearly uh having access to some amazing places. But what I I started to have this underlying frustration because most of the people there who were going on hunts, they were really only concerned. I I'd say, I'd say maybe 85-90% of those people were there just to kill something and leave. And in a lot of cases, when they did kill something, or they'd maybe leave early or whatever it was. And that's not the case for everyone, but I was I became very interested in you know the culture and the story and the heritage and like all of those types of things, the inspiring part. And so I found myself negotiating with the outfitters to stay longer and be like, hey, I don't really want to go back to my apartment in Dallas. Can I just stay here? Uh and I'll film some marketing material for you or some photographs or whatever. And, you know, not surprisingly, all of them were like, Yeah, that sounds great. So I would end up staying in these places like Pakistan and Russia and you know, Tanzania's. I ended up living there for many years, not many years, but like maybe about four years off and on. Um and yeah, just started to dive a little bit deeper into that sort of thing. And then when I would come back to the US and I'd go back to the trade shows and DSC and SCI and all these things, no one was talking about that. And no one wanted to publish those stories. And I worked for a lot of other publications, worked for Garden Gun, I worked for Covey Rise and worked for Philson and Cabela's and Stetson and all these brands. And I kept bringing these ideas to the table and trying to get uh people to, you know, back or support, let's call it uh just like an alternative narrative, right? About what I saw to be the common ground and the things that I thought people who were outside the hunting industry might be interested in. Because there was a lot of um, and you know, over time I learned how to talk about what I was doing and where I was going. Because I still, I was, you know, I dated a girl in LA for a while, and then I had friends in New York and Chicago. And so I found myself in all of these, let's call them mixed company situations where I had to be strategic about how I discussed what I do or what I was doing and why someone that lives in New York or Portland or or LA should be uh not just aware of it, but maybe why they should be potentially interested, right? And um I I've I've called it the Hemingway effect before because I've been in New York, and if you're you know you're at a cocktail party or you're at some gala or something, and someone asks what you do, and if I say, Oh yeah, I film hunts in Africa, that's not gonna go over well. It's it's probably gonna bristle, they're gonna get bristled up, they're gonna get defensive. You're they might even like start, they might decide they don't like you at that point. But if you say, I am a photographer and writer and filmmaker who works with adventurous safari companies in Africa that documents Kilimanjaro safaris, fishing, and a little bit of sustainable hunting, same thing, but different concept and different delivery of the words that seems to have a very interesting effect. Because they're like, oh, that's interesting, because now they're interested in the romanticism of that, right? And they're like, oh, that's oh, you mean like out of Africa? And you're like, yeah, kind of. And then all of a sudden you're talking about films and you're talking about books and you're talking about this. And then that's how I've um sort of found a way to communicate those things to people. And so I think that's probably a good way to summarize more or less as we move into the topic of modern huntsmen, like what that spirit is, right? Is that there was this underlying frustration of I had people who were non-hunters that had these uh, in my opinion, largely misinformed opinions of what hunting is, and and because of what they've seen in news or social media or whatever, coupled with the fact that a lot of the hunters and hunting organizations I was working with were absolutely terrible at communicating to non-hunters. And it was like a rock throwing fight, and it was this very like, you're gonna have to pry the gun out of my cold, dead hand kind of mentality. I'm like, well, look, I we're all on the same page here, but how about we like let's put the knives down and let's have a constructive conversation? And so that ultimately led to starting Modern Huntsman and kind of the only full-time job I had in the last 15 years was at a creative studio in Dallas. Um, it's a company that owns Philson and Shinola called Bedrock, and I was a commercial director, and uh they were doing an experimental uh venture where they're like, Yeah, Tony, you come in and you you have this nimble small team and you can work with all these brands. And long story short, it didn't work out, and they laid me off. Um, and I was like, Well, shit, I guess it's now or never. And so literally wrote after I got laid off, wrote the script for the Kickstarter for Modern Huntsman, filmed it, had a friend fly into Montana uh to help me film it. And you know, we we launched that in 2017, and uh I think we raised about 120 grand. Um and uh yeah, I mean, I the response was amazing and and it sort of verified um the the theory that there was uh an interest and a need for something like that. And I don't want to say niche publication, but um, because it's it's a lot more than that, which which we'll get into. But um yeah, I mean it was intended to communicate bridge communication casts between hunters and non-hunters, showcase the inspirational, cultural, educational side of hunting to a larger global audience, um, and then also uplift a lot of people. I mean, I feel like it's and it's not just um it's not just confined to the hunting industry. A lot of industries with ambassadors and and people, the same people get the spotlight all the time. And I felt like I was hearing about the same people over and over again, and I knew a lot of people who were interesting or had cool stories. So that's a big part of what we try to do is um, yeah, just showcase unique perspectives, undertold stories, um, important information that we feel like needs a spotlight. Uh, and now we're on number 16, right? So we've been doing it for eight years and launched a creative studio. And and after so many times of people being like, well, what the hell? Why do you get to go have all the fun in these places? We were like, okay, well, maybe we should start offering, you know, trips and experiences where people can come join on these things. So um, yeah, that's that's the uh not that short of a version of of the background, but I think it kind of gets us pretty close to to present day.

George Blitch 14:08

No, it does. And and you know, I I I think you really painted that very well. Um, and I I kind of want to go back to that first. Okay, you've you've done the Kickstarter and you've had these ideas, you've met with all these people, you've had some amazing contacts, obviously you have some incredible photos, some films, some different places you've gone, stories you've collected. What does that first uh iteration of creating volume one of this publication look like? How long that take? What was that uh for you in the form and format? I'm just kind of curious, as kind of when you know that that first time you're creating this, because obviously we're, you know, 16's coming out here, and this will be dropping on on the day that it's available. And so you've you've had a lot of experiences there, but going back there, what was that like for you? Um, I'm sure there's a lot of freedom and fun in that first, you know, uh putting that together. But for those who haven't published something and I've published books and been a part of this, I understand how much work goes into that. So I'm just kind of curious as far as like, okay, you're like, cool, Kickstarter's done. I've got some funds. All right, now what?

Bridging Hunters And Non‑Hunters

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Uh we were incredibly naive. Um I underestimated the amount of work, uh, but I think I also underestimated how intense of an editor I am and how uh uh much of a perfectionist I was. And I and I think that if you've seen the publication and anyone who's listening, that is reflected, right? I've I have received many backhanded compliments from our printer when you know we've spent days and days reviewing proofs, and I'm like, oh hey, there's a wayward, you know, little mark on this page of like, oh, great find, you know, good job. So um, yeah, I mean it was it was a mix of excitement and terror. And um, I I think that uh given that I had a whole career as a creative, I think that it benefited us because we structured and still structure to this day our agreements to favor contributors, right? And and a lot of that was born out of my experience with other magazines and other brands is people want to, you know, they want to work for hire, they want to own everything you do. And, you know, there were some publications I worked with where I put a ton of work into the concept using my connections and contacts to get to Africa for cheap, to do this feature story. And then it would come out and you'd have to get out a damn magnifying glass to find photo credit or turn the magazine sideways, and I'd be like, that's this doesn't reflect the level of effort I put into this. So we wanted to make sure that we put the contributors forward and then it was very much about not just their work, but our collaborative effort as a community to do this thing. So in the beginning, we had these very detailed sort of bios on all the people involved, and we don't do that anymore because we need that page space, but we we've built this pretty robust online uh showcase of our team members and contributors and things like that, where the work is showcased, and then we sort of collect or connect all the dots between, you know, prints and events and cookbooks and all these types of things. Um, but I think all of that creative experience served me because um I didn't really put up with any of the shit from the creatives. I was like, ah, no, I know that trick. I've done that before. So how about you just turn it in on time? And um, and so it was it was tough to uh wrangle creatives uh as always, and I say that as one. I know that I'm difficult to uh to wrangle at times, but um, but yeah, it it had this no one had done what we did. Right. And so there was an element of um yeah, trailblazing, whatever you want to call it. Uh and I had so many people tell me, this is doomed to fail, this is dumb. Why are you starting a print publication? This is never gonna work. How are you gonna have a business model with without traditional advertising? And still to this day, people say that, right? And my has the tide turned. Um, but anyways, I I think that uh yeah, it w it was it was uh very stressful. Um we did no I know I'd never produced a publication before, right? Um and so I learned a lot. Um I learned that a lot of people have nays to say, right? And uh, but we pushed through all the noise and got it done and uh had a very successful launch. And I think we sold almost, you know, 10,000 copies of that first issue quickly, and we were like, oh shit, uh I guess maybe we reprint them, but then learning that using an offset press is expensive to reprint low numbers, and then getting into inventory, and then anyways, that's that's a whole other logistical conversation. But uh yeah, that that original one, um, you know, we only had 10 contributors and we structured it in a way where we had like a flat fee for the same flat fee for every contributor plus a percentage of sales. So everyone literally had, you know, we were all on the same page um and to help it grow, which which worked. And you know, we've tried to keep that model as much as we can um moving forward, but obviously it's become more complex.

George Blitch 19:08

So well, you know, when you talk about you you got the first one out, and then you know, you you realize this issue about kind of reprinting and the costs there and how that kind of will change the dynamic there, you know. At some point you have gone and now you're doing you know two of these publications a year. And that is this model that seems to work really well, but you also have a ability for people to come in and have a digital membership. You know, I would love to talk to to you know, have you talk a little bit about the idea of how people can get this in their hands. Once that last copy is shipped, is that done? And you know, is that still away? Are you thinking about doing any reprints, or is it just strictly, hey, we're putting out this many? What's that number? And what do the membership uh levels look like for those who are interested in kind of being a part of this journey with you?

Launching Modern Huntsman Kickstarter

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Sure. So I think that um uh our society is not trending towards uh people reading uh more it it feels like younger generations, attention span shorter, it's more digital media and all that sort of thing. So look, there's plenty of readers out in the world, right? So, but they're not not necessarily all in the hunting space. So it's a it's a challenging demographics exercise for us, um, which really excited in the next issue. We've partnered with um basically the the heirs of Ernest Hemingway, uh with the the Ernest Hemingway estate. Um so breaking news there, but uh nice, yeah, because that seems like a really good fit for us. And so um, you know, as as things progressed, um, you know, in my opinion, our print publication is uh, you know, that's our cornerstone piece, right? We put so much effort into that thing. And it is, you know, the individual copies sell for$35. An annual subscription is$84. It is worth so much more than that, right? But you have to play within the market rules, right? And and and other quote, competitors, not just in the industry, but but largely with people like Surfers Journal and Mountain Gazette and and things like that, Adventure Journal, and some some contemporaries that make amazing work, um, some of which we share the same printer. Um, but how do you then take that experience from that book into a digital experience? And and that's something I wrote about in our recent issue. Um that we've we finally, I feel like accomplished that. We've relaunched our web platform. It's been like a three-year process and to try to create a different experience and how you can interact with this work. And nobody likes paywalls, right? No one likes when you click on something and it's like, hey, you know, subscribe now. So I'm trying to take a uh a little bit more of like an honest approach there that whatever at some point we have to gate this stuff because we spend so much time and money uh creating these things. But so on the digital membership, essentially, you get access to every story we've ever done. Um, you know, there's there's some whatever. Want to call them subscriber exclusives that we do, recipes from Jesse. You know, as we're starting to roll out collaborative product and experiences, you know, you get access to those things first, and then we send a separate email out to everybody. Um, we have a lot more stuff we're gonna do this year that you know, our team writing more about the experience. And I've tasked our designer who just does uh these unbelievable things no one would ever know about. You know, you look at some of the titles of these opening spreads, and I'm like, oh hey, that's cool. And he says, Yeah, uh, I went outside and and like chopped a piece of wood in half and made a wood block print and mixed ink, and then basically made a lithograph print for that opening. I'm like, what? So we're starting to detail things like that, right? The actual level of thought and collage and mixed media that goes into these things. Um, you know, my fiance Karis is our art director, and and the level of just hundreds of hours that she'll put into some of these paintings, like like the cut, the cover of the cookbook was hers. And I, I mean, that must have been 200 or 300 hours. I don't even know. Um so that that level of thing where it dives a little deeper into the art, into the craft that goes into these types of things. Um, obviously, you know, some of the conversations, there's a lot of interesting people that that we get to have conversations with, diving more into their back history and and having recorded conversations like that. Um so the digital membership, I think is uh it's like$30 or$40. I'm not um I'm not entirely sure. But obviously, and then if you sign up for digital membership, uh, you know, you can sort of upgrade to the print. But either one of the the we call it the vanguard, right? That's the print membership or a scari, which is a which is a Swahili word for for like watch or guard, um those get you discounts on all the back issues. So we have all of the issues in stock other than one, which was the women's issue. That was one of our more popular ones, and we've had a hard time keeping it in stock. Um, so yeah, we're obviously uh we're not needing to reprint anything right now. Um we've done a good job of um sort of like managing the inventory and having enough on hand for people that are interested and expanding our retail program. Um but yeah, I mean it's it's meant to be moving towards a model where we've got our numbers of subscribers and then we've got pre-orders and things like that. And, you know, we're not trying to have a lot of extra stuff on hand. Um, but I would say, you know, at this point, it's like I said, 16 volumes and over 3,500 pages uh of stuff that um, you know, is is we're all very, very proud of. And it's intentionally been designed to have um essentially a uh not an infinite shelf life, right? Sure, there are some things that are time sensitive, or there might be some initiatives or you know, federal policies that may be outdated, but for the most part, we take sort of a timeless approach to those things. And so we found they don't uh they age very well, is is my point, rather than you know, current event sort of trending, you know, whatever you want to call it nowadays.

George Blitch 25:11

Well, I mean, there's something to that in this idea of this something you could have just on a coffee table, and there is the art, the the the photography in this is just absolutely mind-blowingly beautiful. And uh you can get immersed in that, you can get immersed in these stories, whether it's you know, talking about stewardship or a hunt or you know, an angling you know experience or just naturalist uh movements or whatever it may be that you're featuring, uh there's so I think there's so much wrench content to it that I I love that idea too, that it can be picked up at any point in time. Yeah, and I think that's great too, because there's certain publications, hey, it's what's happening right now, this is the battle that's on our forefront of maybe public lands or whatever, and you know, there's gonna be updates and things, it's hard. But in a digital world too, if you did have something about whatever that aspect is, that's an ever-changing format where you can be able to have, I think, the best of both worlds to where you can have that current day and you can have something that can live in print and be something that can be consumed at any point in time. And I I'd I just want to, you know, tip my hat to you on being able to, I think, have the combination of all those things, the artistry that's involved in that, the educational, the awareness, the entertainment, and really just having such a profoundly beautiful publication that you guys have time and time again. So hats off to you and and your team on that. Um, I I do want to, you know, because one of the things that's, you know, hey, you got 16 uh, you know, volumes that are out. One thing that came out last year, and we kind of alluded to it a minute ago, is the cookbook. And I'd love for you to talk about when that idea came to mind of, hey, we've met all these incredible uh chefs and cooks and storytellers. How are we going to be able to put this in? Like, when did that dream come to make this cookbook and talk to me about the steps along the way of getting that published? That's also a very big feat to uh have something like that out.

Building Volume One And Contributor Model

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Sure. Well, uh it well, it didn't take very long for people to start asking us, hey, when are you gonna do a cookbook? Right. And especially we we typically had a chef feature in every issue. There may have been one where we didn't or something like that. Um and so that's always been a prevailing theme. And we had toyed with the notion, but you know, as independent publishers and then with COVID and then whatever political nonsense that's happened in the last eight years, right? It's not a stable environment. And so we were trying to minimize any sort of risk. Uh, and then I met somebody who was good friends with a with a very successful publishing agent. Um and he's done a lot of very, very popular cookbooks. I don't know if you're familiar with Matty Matheson, but he helped produce Matty's most recent, you know, his books, um, and Brad Leone and some of those people. So we just got in touch with him and um we started having a conversation, and he was like, Well, tell me a little bit more about your magazine and like how many you sold. And I was like, I don't know. I think we I think we probably sold like a hundred thousand copies or something like that. And he was like, Excuse me? And I was like, Yeah, I mean, collectively over however many years, and he's like, Holy shit, man. He's like, that's a lot of books. I was like, is it? You know, I was like, because I feel like we need to be doing more. And anyways, uh it just it was this uh, I don't want to say uh necessarily like an exciting epiphany of the publishing industry, right? But it was one of those things where I it was it was exciting for us to realize that we we were doing something on our own outside of massive publishers that publishers and publishing agents were like, wow, that's impressive. Um and so we started to have that conversation. We quickly threw together a pitch with, hey, these are 10 chefs we work with regularly, um, and this is what we'd want to do. And we put some art direction in there and some mood board and some art styles and some writers and things like that. And um it turned into a bidding war between three of the biggest publishers because we were like, yeah, well, you know what, maybe we'll just see how this goes. And the thought of someone else funding the production sounds kind of nice. So let's let's just see explore that option. Um, and it turned into a bidding war, and we ended up going uh with it's called 10 Speed Press, but it's it's a division of Penguin Random House, right? Which largest publisher in the world. And the creative team there uh was that's really what won me over, is you know, we had conversations with all these these people, and um, some of them got it, some of them didn't. And because we do, you know, for for better or worse, whether it's smart or stupid, we always try to go our own way and and do something unique or maybe that someone hasn't done. And some of those publishers were like, oh, well, that's not gonna work. Like, all right, click. And uh the 10 speed team was like, Wow, this is really interesting. You know, we make a lot of what we feel like are the same types of books, and and that's that that was them them saying a lot of people they they stick with the format that works, right? And we had a different idea, and we were like, hey, we're not just trying to make a cookbook, we're trying to win a James Beard Award. And so we uh it ended up that we went with them and it was a three-year process. So that was uh unwe didn't expect that, with the level of uh just additional coordinations and approvals. And obviously, they have a very long-standing established system of producing books. And so there was a learning curve there of us working within their systems, them working with our editors, their editors, sometimes not having experience around uh hunting topics and and things like that. Recipe testing with obscure wild game in remote regions with photographers who live in a cabin and don't have a cell phone and have to take a kayak in to get internet. Uh, things like that were interesting challenges that we'll maybe do a little behind the scenes on. Um, but yeah, I think that we the initi the essential like the premise was all of these chefs, including Jesse Griffiths, I basically was like, hey, what is something strange or unusual or out of the ordinary for you that you that you've always wanted to dive into but haven't been able to? And that's what we want to do. And so all the whole book is essentially the the chefs themselves having to communicate their own um message, their philosophy, their why. Why are you interested in wild food? How is it relate to your surrounding environment, that kind of thing. Um, and so it was a challenge, not just for us, but also for them, right? Because not all of them, I I think would consider themselves super accomplished writers, but that's sort of our MO is really pushing people. Um, and and I think that how we were discussing earlier, like the tone of how you say something, um, sometimes it's a lot harder to sit down and write it than it is if you if we sat down like this and you asked me, and I can tell you that in a conversational storytelling way. So we've taken that approach a lot with people like that, where we say, hey, why don't you just tell the story to a voice recorder? Let's start there. And we we found that very often that comes out in this honest, genuine way, and then we've got a really solid foundation to start working on the piece. Um, but we had uh, you know, Terry McDonnell is our advising editor. Um, I mean, you can look him up, but he was founding editor-in-chief of Outside Magazine and was editor-in-chief of just about every publication out there and is a legend in the publishing world. Um, and he brought in some serious talent as well. Um, and we had Jamie Harrison, who's Jim Harrison's daughter, wrote the the opening or wrote wrote an opening essay uh for the book as well. And then um, yeah, we had uh my fiance did all the the uh uh paintings and illustrations in there. So there's all these layers that then led into, you know, we're doing art prints and we're doing dinners where the chefs come and sort of make that uh experience um, you know, something you can go and and see in person. Um we did that, we launched the cookbook in Bozeman with with our friend Eduardo Garcia. Um, and we went, he went and shot a bison from Northbridger bison, and then the dinner was made from this whole thing. So the whole storytelling element come through and all that. Um, so yeah, it's been um I guess it almost a year, not even a year that it's been out. Oh, that wasn't even that long ago. Um, but yeah, it's been a a great a great response. Um, and you know, we're hoping to continue to do some of those dinners and stuff with the chefs this year.

Print Vs Digital And Memberships

George Blitch 33:47

No, well, man, I and and again, another hats off there. This is just an incredible publication. And I I like what you were kind of talking about, and you kind of alluded to it earlier too, and this idea of how we can be able to communicate uh how there's so much more when you think you hear the word safari, you hear the word hunter, for those who you know, some people just hear safari and they just think trophy hunter, like okay, this person's just going to kill some of the stuff and throw it on his wall, and they don't understand maybe the nuances of uh you know what happens with the meat, the the money that comes into these villages, how much of it goes back to conservation, and it's very hard to sometimes convey these things, especially to people who might not want to listen. But whenever you do things uh through different mediums, through conversations, through film, through cookbooks, through these publications, um, and being able to do the storytelling, I think there's a much more compelling way to be able to share this uh, you know, conservational experience that is hunting. Every hunter is a conservationist, whether they know it or not. And I think it's an important thing because you know we talked about this, and I know that this number can scale, right? Of that maybe there's 85% of people support hunting, but you know, uh that's a much lower on trophy. But it depends on how you communicate these things to understand uh what it is that is this way of life that if for not hunting uh uh we wouldn't be where we are today if our ancestors didn't hunt. And you know, this is a way of life that has been profoundly a human experience. So uh I think in in order to tell that and show the intricacies of the tastes, the sounds, the smells, the you know outdoors, uh the love of nature that we want to preserve in such a way, I I love that your publication through you know this, uh through the cookbook, through these films, uh, through these experiences really uh conveys that in such a meaningful and um educational way to especially those people that are on the fringe that are the non-hunters, that I think uh those ways that you first had those conversations in LA, you'd have a different approach to, and as you talked about, going to these galas and how you present it and just flipping words can change someone's ability to kind of come in and learn a little bit more and oppose to being that walled off thing. So I I really uh I appreciate that there's people that are like you and your team collectively doing this.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Thank you. Um, yeah, I think I've I've sort of discovered well, many things about myself throughout the process, but one of those is that I'm I'm sort of uh a natural diplomat, I would say. Um my whole life. I've always been one who's tried to help mediate or uh bridge gaps, whatever you want to call it. And so um sort of whether I like it or not, naturally suited for that type of work. Um, not sure why I chose the hunting industry, but here we are, um, because there's so much factionalism within the industry um and and often become uh overly politicized, in my opinion, and and focused on divisiveness instead of on a shared interest and love of the nature and limited natural resources. And we have a very powerful piece in this next issue. Um, the former editor-in-chief of Outside magazine, Christopher Keys, uh resigned from Outside for his own reasons uh last year and has started a new venture called Republic that's about it's like re-colon public, and it's all about basically public lands and a public lands scorecard. So we're helping bring attention to this sort of thing because we think it's important, right? And I think with that too, um, yeah, it's just like like you said, trying to trying to bridge those gaps and get people interested in the conversations. And and I was um I hosted a speaking panel a few weeks ago in Charleston um at Siwe, which is the Southeastern Wildlife Expo, and brought in Jesse came with me, and we brought in Simon Roosevelt and Francisco Bergaz and uh Marshall McKinney, who's the he was the founding creative director of Garden and Gun, and he's our um creative advisor now. And someone asked us that question on the panel. They said, hey, you know, what you know, what can we do as hunters right now to uh really drive the message home to non-hunters or whatever? And I said, Well, first of all, I I don't he there was there was sort of this combative defensive tone he had when he asked the question, like, you know, like let's start waving the the you know the battle flag or whatever. And I was like, hey, listen, uh I think one tone is important. And rather than approaching someone or you know, a demographic or or an institution with this tone of like explanatory, right? Like, hey, you need to understand this from my perspective, uh, we found a lot more success in um just listening, right? Finding common ground. And we surprisingly, or maybe it's not surprisingly, I don't know, have a lot of non-hunter or in some cases like vegan subscribers. And I'm gonna say a lot, but probably more than most other publications related to hunting. And they've said they don't eat meat, but if they did, they would, they could do it this way because they feel like the way we're presenting it or the people that we're presenting approach it in a respectful, honest way that they can align with ethically. And I think that's really important. And through those conversations, we found the common ground of even people who previously, friends or colleagues, whoever, who maybe were like really against what I did, but they tolerated it because maybe they thought I was a nice person. We've had breakthroughs with those people and now have taken them out to the shooting range and taken them fly fishing because it was more about asking them, hey, well, what did you have a bad experience? Or did someone say something to you? Or where does this come from? And just the fact that you hear them out um immediately breaks down a lot of those walls. In in certain cases, people who've made up their mind have made up their mind, right? And those are not the people we're trying to reach. It's you know, I think in in one of our original mission statements, it said we're looking for people with open minds and open hearts, right? Kind of thing. That there's there's an element of discovery and curiosity with what we're doing. And some of that applies to the hunting industry too. In some cases, right, there are some things that maybe don't deserve to continue or be a part of hunting traditions because they don't fit in with what we or you know the collective um community feels like our current ethics. I don't know. And sometimes those are challenging conversations to have, but those are the conversations that we try to facilitate. And, you know, there's there's some organizations that I won't name that um have asked me, well, hey, you know, what what do you think about this? And what do you think about what we're doing? And and I have to say, well, I don't think you're gonna like what I have to say because I'm not gonna tell you, uh, I'm not gonna pat you on the back and say, good job. I'm gonna say, you know, I think this and this and this could be much better in the larger context, or I think you're favoring donors, or I think you're favoring, you know, personal politics or whatever. And at the end of the day, like this should be about wild places and wild things and a modern updated version of that that takes into account that maybe gets refreshed every year, right? Uh, but I I think with that, the the point I was making is trying to approach those conversations respectfully with uh, you know, an open mind and a curious mentality, um, and with the goal being to find common ground, find something that we can all agree on to work towards. Um, and if that's not possible, all good. You move on and and seek out another conversation. But but that's really important to me and and to our team.

The Cookbook: Vision To Publication

George Blitch 41:22

I love that you talked about that, the idea of finding that common ground because this is it, it's a community effort for us to be able to move forward this. And I see so much divisiveness. I mean, just in the world in general, right? But just the idea of in the hunting world or that wildlife, wild spaces world, the people who are jockeying for trying to get the attention or be the number one on this list, or whatever it is, or even just organizations. Um, you know, I see this here in Texas where there's different organizations that are trying to fight to find this space so that oh, we want to be the leader in this. And whatever it is, you look around and you're like, this is not how we move forward together. And in fact, these broken pieces here is is not something that is going to help us to collectively move forward. It's not going to help for us to collectively keep our public spaces, our wild places wild. It's actually going to fragment this. And so while we have millions and millions of people who can be on the same page, it doesn't feel like that foundation is there. So any way that we can be able to build that to where we can all come together, I think is the ultimate goal in mind. What's the end goal at the end, right? And I think uh people have different ideas of how to get there, but we all have to be able to sit down. I think you pointed at that as well as the first thing we need to do is listen, is figure out what these people are trying to do. And we have more common ground as humans, as a species, as outdoors men and women than we do uncommonalities, but we have to find those and focus on those. So yeah, I that's a that's a very big thing that I see from all the people I've interviewed, all the different organizations. It's talked about, but a lot of times it doesn't seem to be in motion. Where I I think that uh hopefully we're at a tipping point where it is.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

So well, that's literally what Modern Huntsman is and why we created it. And obviously that's evolved over time, but I I think just just to go back to your point earlier about you know what we are, and and we started as a publication that has a creative studio, but but now it's become much bigger than that. And and for lack of a better term, let's call it a community, right? Um, and and there is going to be a community component uh on our website, right? Where because we we've had a lot of guests on these trips, right, that go to Scotland or come to Colorado or wherever it is, and they're like, hey, how do we meet the other people who came on these trips? Because every single time, I don't know how this keeps happening, but every single time these incredible people sign up and show up and they've all become friends, right? I'm sure at some point there's gonna be a jackass, right? There always is at somebody's wedding or party or whatever, but so far that hasn't happened. And the quality of people is just uh it's So encouraging and is a really positive reminder that you know we're reaching people and people are interested. And a lot of these people who've come to the hunting trips and dinners and stuff are not hunters and they want to learn because the hunting industry can be intimidating, right? Even for I mean, for me, I've been in that room for 20 years. And because we're doing something maybe slightly different or disruptive, or maybe I don't wear the right hat or whatever it is, sometimes you're not considered part of the club. And you know, for me, as someone who's in the industry for 20 years, that's you know, far less than what someone who just walks in off the street to one of these shows would feel. So the fact that we're creating this sense of welcome um and just no ego or or really like, I mean, sure, there's there's some base level skills that you would need to know and firearm safety and things like that, but we offer those types of things too. Um, and so yeah, I think that that is what I would say is that um things, the things I'm working on with some of these talking panels, uh, with experiences, with dinners, and and hopefully larger getting some support from organizations and the hunting industry to help me. I can't fund it. We need some help funding a separate space. Like let's do, I don't want to call it a trade show, right? But if it was a modern huntsman curated blank and we pull in chefs and writers and makers and thinkers, um, that's something that's been on the radar for a long time. To we've we have the platform, right? Now we just have to formalize it into something that people can participate in. Because I I found my frustration, a lot of what what you were saying as well, is that there wasn't somewhere else to point to, or there wasn't somewhere else to go. It was just like, hey, we feel like this should be better. And so, and I and I want to be careful here that I don't in any way want to position myself or modern huntsman as better, right? It's not about that, it's not pointing fingers or slapping wrists. It's more saying that there was an underlying frustration, much like you stated, that we feel like there could be a a different way to go about this, and that the larger industry and the resources are not supporting that thing, right? So I created the thing to try to bring in a lot of smart, talented people, far more smart and talented than I am, uh, to help build that, right? And now I've I've been working, uh when I say now, I mean for the last 10 years, trying to get the support of the larger industry and conservation organizations to back the horse, right? And to help build that thing that reaches more people and can have you know a larger scale impact. And that's a that's a tough uphill climb, especially as a small business and as independent publishers. Uh, and so it's it's not easy. Um, and whether it's recklessness or bravery uh is yet to be determined. Uh, but we're still going and you know, pointing in the right direction. But but again, you know, that that uh it's like NPR. You know, when you listen to NPR and they always have, hey, this is listener-supported radio and blah, blah, blah. It is the same thing for us. So I know everybody says we need support and subscribers and that kind of thing, but but absolutely that is 100% real for us. And um, we are completely independent, right? We don't we don't owe anything to anyone. I I brought on some investors last year, um, including Chip and Joanna Gaines, um, which you know hopefully we'll we'll be doing more with them in the future. Um, but yeah, I think this was very much meant to be free of corporate interests. And I think we can all agree that uh when shareholders and and uh public IP get involved, um, that becomes uh ethics go out the window. It's about the bottom line. And I'm I'm trying to maintain that as much as possible in everything we do, um, which is a hard road, but I feel like is is the right road and the only road. And so um there you go. There's my there's my uh diplomatic begging.

George Blitch 48:01

Well, no, I love it, man, because the only the thing is you you're you're very genuine about this. It it speaks for itself in what you're doing, it speaks for itself and how many people support this and the types of people you bring to the table, uh, of which a lot of you know some of the folks you've mentioned I I've had interviews with, and they've talked uh positively about your organization and it's not just that, it's not just a publication, it's not just you know, I mean there's so much more. There's filming, there's these events, there's things that you're building, but you're building uh a community structure that I think is continues to have profound uh impact in our spaces here. And so um I I love that. It and I I you're I see that you, you know, there's an ego set aside, and um you are really you know bringing other people together. And like you said too, uh, you know, I I never want to be the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. You know, I don't I never want to be the most talented in the in the place. I want to bring in all these other people, and I think that's a a leadership quality of bringing the best out so that we can all uh be able to have the best end-all products, and that's something I really do think speaks for itself with the organization there. So um again, just an applaud there. Um you know, for for folks who want to go and subscribe, they want to learn about the events that they can go and be a part of, to check out the films, uh, to buy uh, you know, volume 16, which will be out today when this drops, to buy the cookbook and to, you know, there's also prints and art that you guys have on on the site. There's so much there. So steer people towards the website, the socials, how they can get involved.

Changing Minds Through Story And Tone

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Sure. Well, I mean, uh we I feel like we've done a pretty good job with uh postering our website with subscribe buttons. But yeah, I mean, obviously modernhuntsman.com forward slash subscribe. You know, there's there's various levels, but our ideal scenario, right, is is uh the Vanguard, right, which is the$84 a year. And you know, essentially with the timing, you would actually end up getting three issues a year with the way the shipping works. Um, and that's not something I widely publicize, but uh yeah, it's the three books a year, and then obviously a lot of stuff through email and on the website. Um, and then every single one of these ticketed dinners we've done have sold out. And so we typically send those out to subscribers first, um, but also let people know ahead of time what's coming down the pipeline, what what sort of trips and things we're hosting in the year. Um and then we've got several things rolling out this year with product collaborations, and we're gonna stick to that small, small batch uh approach. We want to make sure that we make something really uh high quality, and I'm not trying to hold a bunch of inventory, right? And so those types of things we communicate to subscribers ahead of time. Um if$84 is not uh in in the cards, um you know, or or if it is, but it's not for you, we have a gifting program, right? You can actually gift subscriptions to people if you have a company and you want uh to give gifts to your employees. We have a whole login system where you can do all that now. Um and I jokingly we just sent an email out not that long ago about that new gifting program. And I kind of sarcastically wrote, like, surely you can think about someone in your life who's worth$84. Um, anyways, and then the the digital subscription component, um, you know, I I understand if if you're uh a minimalist and and you don't want to have a bunch of stuff at your house, um, the digital subscription, you can actually download the PDFs and read them on iPads and things like that. Um, but again, you know, the the the main uh backbone of the business is is that print subscription. Um and you know, we're very active on Instagram, it's it's Modern Huntsman on Instagram, uh, and we've got several films coming out soon uh that we produced last year. Um again, those go out to the subscribers first, and then eventually we release them online to subscribers and all that. But um, with all the stuff we're planning, right, we're trying to launch new things, and I'm I'm sort of shifting the mentality back towards, I don't want to say a Kickstarter mentality, but we have we're trying to uh with some of the things we want to do, we're trying to just say, and rather than just say, hey, we're gonna fund this, how many subscribers would it take for us to do this thing we want to do, right? So we've set this goal of 3,000 new subscribers this year to be able to launch a few new things. Um and so that's the very real goal we're we're attempting. And I'm gonna be public about that, right? We're gonna have a little counter and we're gonna do a little campaign and we're gonna give away stuff to, and that's the other thing. We give away a lot of stuff to subscribers. We've got some Swarovski Optic uh stuff we've got coming, and and TurtleBox is a good partner of ours, and a few other things like that sign prints and sign books. So there's all kinds of goodies uh coming. But uh, but yeah, that's that's sort of the the uh the stated goal for the year.

George Blitch 52:38

Well, man, I I can't wait to see this continue to grow. Um it's it's just incredible what you and your team are putting out there. I can't wait for volume 16. Make sure you guys are going in there, getting your membership, getting that in your hands. Make sure you're also ordering the cookbook. It is phenomenal, some amazing dishes. My wife and I were talking about uh getting some some panfish out there, looking at some of Jesse's. Um Eduardo, there's a whole host of I mean, there's yeah a lot of very, very talented uh uh chefs that are in there and cooks, and you guys are gonna enjoy it. So check that out. And uh yeah, Tyler, once again, man, I I really appreciate you coming on, taking some time today to talk about Modern Huntsman and and your journey. And uh I I know that listeners can be uh very uh excited to to hear what's coming down. So they'll I'm sure they'll be going over to site and socials. I'll have those all listed in the show notes below. And uh yeah, man, thank you genuinely once again for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate it. It was a wonderful conversation, great questions. And again, I really really appreciate the book coordination up there in your background. So thank thanks for having me. Cheers, man. We'll talk soon. You take care. You too. Right on.