SPEAKER_01: 0:14

Hey Ryan, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today, man?

SPEAKER_00: 0:17

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01: 0:18

Man, I'm excited to have you on. We're going to be chatting about your new book. Congratulations, publication of Advanced Long Range Shooting, The Next Step in Precision Rifle Shooting. It's the sequel to Long Range Shooting, A Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle Shooting, which I have above me, and I have been following those uh quite religiously, man. I absolutely love those. I picked up the first book um, I guess about eight years ago. I think it was 10 years ago when you first published it, right?

SPEAKER_00: 0:42

Yeah, it's been almost 10 years waiting for the second one to come out. So thanks.

SPEAKER_01: 0:46

And I knew that you had talked about, yeah, it's gonna be coming in. It took you a little while, and I I'd love that there was an acknowledgement in your book that you said you wanted to thank your kiddos for helping you distract you and keeping you from finishing the book, which I thought was amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 0:58

Yeah, it's true. I I love the best thing in in life for me is being a dad. So being around my kids is awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05

Well man, and and uh I you know that mentioning that too, you you also have the kids book here that you wrote. Uh there's only one you a gun safety book for children. And I actually uh bought that for many of my friends when they had kiddos, and when they started kind of getting old enough to to go through that, I thought that was a great book. Um, is that something that you had kind of when having kids, you wanted to put that out, or you know, what was the the uh genesis of that one?

SPEAKER_00: 1:28

Yeah, that was uh at the same time I came out with that, I came out with Mayday Safety, was a software company I created. And both of those were born out of, I was going on Fox News, starting to go on Fox News at that time and being kind of like the pro gun guy whenever there was you know something happened with guns. And I found myself constantly saying, more gun laws won't work, banding guns won't work, that won't work, and I'd get off the segment or the show, and I'd I being critical of myself would say, Well, all I'm saying is what won't work. Why why don't I talk about what will work? So I'm like, Well, I'll make an emergency response, you know, app for people that can, you know, have organizations better track and respond to you know emergency events like mass shootings, or if you know banning guns won't work or forcing people at the time, it was like I think Chicago and DC was talking about the forced locking up the guns. Like, well, if that won't work, what will work? Education. So maybe I'll come out with that. That that was the goal there.

SPEAKER_01: 2:23

Well, then talk to me about, you know, as far as like when your first book came out like 10 years ago, obviously um, you know, you have a lot of experience in the shooting world, um, you know, former sniper, sniper trainer. I mean, you, you know, and thank you for your service, by the way. And uh, you you know, this is something that you decided at some point in time, and I know you kind of talk about it in the book, but for those who haven't picked that up yet, you know, what was it that was your decision to kind of write that book initially, and then we'll kind of dive into the new book and and how that is kind of a follow-up to it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:51

Okay, uh, the reason I wrote the first book, the orange long-range shooting handbook, was because I thought I wanted to write a book before I died. That was it. It was like a bucket list thing of saying, that sounds like it's hard, but it sounds like it'd be something to be cool. And I was just leaving Remington at the time. So I was in-house in Remington Outdoor Company, and I had a non-compete when I had left, where I I think it was six months. I kind of got paid to sit on the sidelines. I'm like, well, what am I gonna do for six months? Oh, I'll take this time to write a book. And then I really sat and stared at the screen for a while and thought, well, what do I write about? Well, I everyone tells me write about what you know about. Well, I know about shooting. And then what's my angle on shooting besides just restating what's been out there before? And I had done the first series of videos with the NSSF at that point. You know, that's been 15 years ago now, probably. And if those videos resonated with people, they resonated because I made things simple. I I saw myself as the guy that said, it's not that hard. Anybody can do it. And especially back then, any of the long-range pros really had this um I call like a tab protector. It's like a military term. Like they're they're guarding, you know, they're they're shielding off their their world and saying, I'm cool, I'm special, I know how to do this, and it's so tough and so complicated that only I can do it and you can't. I'm like, I let's try the opposite. And so I just wrote it in an absolute beginner. I mean, I'm talking about this is what a scope ring is, you know, the very beginning of it. And then I work up to some things at the end. And it's not false humility to say, I didn't know if anyone would buy it. I mean, I I reached out to publishers and no publishers wanted to publish my book, so I published it myself, you know, and I all the images in there, I'm flipping through it right now. All these like images of the sites and things I did in there, I drew on the touchpad on my little MacBook. You know, I everything was drawn by hand. I mean, heck, these were you know trajectory lines. It was me doing a line and doing a curve and moving it with my finger on the on the screen, right? So it was just really simple and it it was well received. I think people liked it and it took off. And then that was why one of the reasons why it took 10 years to get the second one out is I was scared because this first one, you know, it was we're we're talking about this a little before the podcast. This one was the number one best-selling shooting book on Amazon for like nine years straight. So the fear is sequels are never as good as the first one, right? Like I I love my favorite movie is the Boondock Saints. The second one was not near, you know, that always happens. The second one's not near as good as the first one. Um, and so I was what that was one reason I was worried. It's like, oh no, you know, this thing has glowing reviews, people love it, people are so supportive. What if the next one I put out is horrible? You know, what if the next one I put out people don't like? And then also the advanced part is I'm not the advanced guy. I'm not the guy that I would even recommend anyone listen to if they want to hear quote unquote advanced ballistic theories or topics or stuff like that. There's guys out there that know that stuff, and that's not me. And so that kept me struggling for a long time, too. And it wasn't until recently I was like, you know, I don't have to get into the nuance of exactly why powder ignition happens in a cartridge case and when you're loading and this and that. I could just take the same approach and try and do it simply. So I sat down and put it together. And so far, you guys have been kind, people have liked it, so it's great.

SPEAKER_01: 6:19

Well, you kind of talk about you're in in the book, too. You're like you're saying at the very end of it, you kind of hope that people will go, Well, that that wasn't that advanced. And being able to kind of give it to you in a simple, you know, keep it simple, stupid kind of terms, right? Like something that anybody can be able to gravitate towards. And I think you also talked about the idea of like you wondered if some of those people maybe had solved the beginner's guide on the first book and wondered, oh, I mean, that might not be for me, but you lay out so many different foundations in that book that are quintessential where it could be a beginner or someone who's experienced can gain more experience. And uh even at the kind of in the very beginning of the new book, uh, you have a test that that kind of starts things off too. I mean, well, you actually started off with gun safety, which I think is paramount. And I think you said, I don't want to, you know, give you the same thing twice through different books and kind of you know recharge you, except that one was, I think, important to kind of you know start off with that, right? I mean, that that's kind of the quintessential beginning of any gun instructional book or course, I think. Um, but I'd love that you kind of talked about, you know, a couple chapters in it. This book may not be for you, and this book isn't advanced. You know, if you can maybe talk about those ideas and maybe uh why those were, you know, I mean, because I I kind of catch a humor there too, but those are also serious. And uh Kiri said, you know, uh uh for those who may be looking at that for the first time, what is it that you meant behind those?

SPEAKER_00: 7:38

Um I appreciate you picking up on that. Um as a teacher, I want to avoid talking about concepts that I haven't introduced already. Okay, so that's that's that's that's a pet pain for mine when someone's trying to train. Is you know, an easy example would be someone using an acronym without explaining what the acronym is, right? Or using a term. So if I'm if I'm getting up and I'm trying to teach someone about how to use MILS to do quick wind, you know, I talk uh four chapters on wind in this new book, and I'm gonna talk about how to how to do quick wind with MILS. And I stand up in front of people and I'm not sure that they know precisely what MILS are, then I I'd be remiss by not explaining what mills are and what an angular measurement is and why it works and all that. Well, I didn't want to do that again. I'd already explained that as concise as I possibly could in the first book. And as I went to type, I'm just used to the second a topic comes up, it's like, oh, did I explain that? Here's a side note, and I want to do the background. I'm like, I don't want to type that again. Not because I'm being lazy, but because I already telling you I didn't want to, you know, be like a the fraud of the advanced stuff. I didn't want to restate the basic stuff for that reason, but also I didn't want you to have to pay for the same thing twice, and so I just struggled with, well, how do I do this? How do I know that you as the reader are aware of what a mill is and how to use it, for example, so I could just skip by and start getting into it without knowing. I said, I'll put a chapter in there that just gives them a test that says this book may not be for you. And there's a risk in doing that. I I was uh the risk was people were gonna uh not like that, that it was gonna come across poorly, and I think it's come across okay, but it's just a chapter that says this book may not be for you yet. You might have skipped the first one, you shouldn't have. Here are some concepts that I'm gonna assume you know, and so not only was that preparing the reader, I think it was me arguing in advance for people that were gonna criticize me jumping ahead. It's like, okay, if you're gonna get mad at me for jumping ahead, remember chapter two said I'm gonna jump ahead. So if you get mad at me for that, that's your fault. So that's what that was.

SPEAKER_01: 9:44

Well, and you kind of reference back too in that you're like, hey, you might want to go ahead and look at this concept in the first book and hear maybe you know this is a time to put down, pick up the first book or whatever, or just you know, kind of I mean, I think I made a B plus on that test. And I was like, okay, I feel like I'm good enough to come back in and get going. But there were some things that I'd find myself referencing back to just because I was like, wait, I think this is what he meant, but let me make sure I have it down so I can get that next concept. And those are the foundational things. I mean, I was a you know, former teacher, I know about how you kind of got to lay things out for for your students, and that's an important thing you did. And I also like uh a lot that you have a reference um and supplemental information in in you know the appendix extra resources, because some things may change, and some things are better to be able to go and you know, grab that QR code or whatever it is and be able to explain things different, or maybe you know, you even talked about at one point in time, um, you know, towards the end of the book there too, but you you've talked about it before of like you know, focusing on the reticle and then don't focus on the reticle and just uh a shift in things that you found over time, or something like I want to talk about that concept where once it's in book form and print, that's there. You can't edit that. Yeah, but I love that you have something where you want to expand on it, you want to edit it, you want to bring in a new concept or whatever it is, you have that ability. So I'd love for you to also kind of talk about that because I think that's a pretty key thing that you include in this, especially in this day and age where things shift, ideas change, you have you know, you reserve the right to change your mind, or give a new opinion, right?

SPEAKER_00: 11:16

Yeah. Um, well, the first book, I had not come around to 65 Creedmore yet. You know, the first book, I still was a 308 guy, and 6'5 Creedmore was clearly out by the time the first book came out, and it was clearly being adopted by people. And I didn't think there was anything necessarily wrong with the cartridge. I just think that I'm one, I'm very suspicious of new cartridges. So, like the last two days, I've I I put out some videos critical of a new cartridge. Um because I think often they're inventing or they're looking for problems that don't exist. And I think when it comes to things like self-defense cartridges, especially, I think it's dangerous when when companies try to convince people that something's better and that it may not be. But when it comes to even long-range stuff, that's money, that's time. So people are gonna run out and believe the hype. They're gonna get a new rifle, new cartridges, new ammo, new this, new training, and then the cartridge gets abandoned and they can't find it anymore. And I don't think that's fair to people. So I don't like it for that reason either. But the example was the first book, I said, hey, I still like 308. I've had uh more taxpayer dollars than I probably want to count up spent teaching me how to shoot 308, right? So, and I've I've I can kind of just look down range and see the wind in 308. That's like my primary language. So I stick with that, and I think it's a great round, and you can find it everywhere and stick with it. Well, that was 10 years ago. You know, maybe eight years ago, 65 Creedmoor started to pick up. Six years ago, it got to the point where if you went into a retail store, you would see more SKUs of 65 Creedmore on the shelf than 308. I'm like, well, crap. Six Five Creedmore clearly has taken over, and now all the guns I shoot are 65 Creedmoor. I shoot predominantly two cartridges. I shoot six five Creedmore out to about a thousand, and I shoot 300 PRC out to a mile. Those are my I love those cartridges. Neither of those were in the first book, and so I really painted myself into a corner of that first one by talking about one cartridge and why and this and that, and even equipment. You know, for scopes, I recommend I'm like, hey, I love the loophold Mark IVs, those are great, just workhorse scopes. They're not the fanciest of anything, but they're solid scopes. Those have been discontinued. So I learned from the first book of okay, maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe I should just say, um, here's some of the things that are available today. Follow the QR code if you'd like to see my current recommendations, and then I can just keep that updated as time goes on.

SPEAKER_01: 13:34

Well, I think that's it's really important to just be able to have that. Um and yeah, because it's everything changes at at times. Like, and I I'm a big fan of the 6.5 Creamore as well and the 300 PRC. Those are the two main ones that I'm shooting now with uh Sequence Precisions rifles, and absolutely love them. Um, and yeah, and it you know, it took me a while to kind of get hit, it's a 30 odd six or nothing. My uncle shot that, you know. It's like yeah, but you get into reload and all the different different types of bullets, and you know, that's one of the things you you kind of talk about too, just to start off. You have three main sections in the book. You got ammunition, external ballistics, application, and you know, there's so many different types of ammo, and I think there's a lot of things that people they don't understand, you know, different ballistic coefficients and different things that are going on because they might not need to. They're just like, I like this ammo, it shoots within one MOA, uh, and we're good to go, and we're hunting deer at 150 yards and under. And and it doesn't really matter maybe to them as much. But also, I I love that you kind of talked about in ammunition what it is that you like and for that application of that. Like, hey, if you're hunting, you know, some people are like, Oh, you know, I think you kind of talked about like the the the weight of the bullet after you've been able to find it. I don't want to find my bullets either, man. I want two holes through the the deer so that I know or what you know, the hog, whatever it may be. Um, and that I don't necessarily want to have to measure it, you know. And so I like that idea you talked about or tissue damage and different things within ammunition. And what what's your your your goal here? Is it is it hidden metal? Is it going ahead and looking for tissue damage? And uh I'd love for you to kind of just expand as far as you know the idea of okay, section one, ammunition, what is it that you're hoping to teach uh folks through that? And what are some of those sections that you go over?

SPEAKER_00: 15:14

Okay, um, I talk about uh first off what you brought up, I'm glad you did too, because I noticed that whenever someone would talk about a bullet failing, and I say, Oh, my bullet failed, it's always in their hand, or they're showing me a picture of it in their hand on their phone. This bullet failed. Well, how how did it fail? How'd you get it back? How'd you get it in your hand? Yeah, did it drop out of the rifle and hit the ground and you picked it up? Or did it kill an animal that you then reached in and took the bullet out and are holding in your hand, which means the bullet succeeded. I just it bothered me. Um so I decided for for the advanced topics, trying to break them out. I started throwing out chapter ideas, and then you step back and look and go, how can these chapter ideas kind of be morphed together into sections? And what can make some logical sense here? And for ammunition, I think that's one of the bigger advancements we have for long-range shooting, is rifles are pretty simple. You know, you can get a savage rifle to shoot a minute of angle all day long, and it's a pretty inexpensive rifle. You we we've we've got them figured out. You don't need an accuracy international to shoot a thousand yards. You don't. It's it's nice, it's the sexy way to do it. You know, I want to check out the new Seekins rifle. They're what is it, the sick?

SPEAKER_01: 16:28

Oh, yeah, the sick. Yeah, I'm supposed to be having one in my hands at some point next year or later on this year. I cannot wait. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00: 16:34

Yeah, I I think that looks awesome, but I haven't spent any time on one. But so that's cool, but it's not necessary to hit long range or hit accurate shots. What's necessary is good ammo, though. Because if you have really bad ammo and a great gun, it's not gonna matter. And so I decided, well, let's talk about what ammo is. And that's also the mystique when people get into what they consider advanced topics, they start talking about standard deviation and extreme spread and this and that, and neck tension, and all these things. So I I hope I upset some people because in I have a chapter on low development and ammunition where I just I slay some golden calves for people, I think. I say, you guys believe in these load development techniques, and here's what the data I'm seeing is that they may not work, and this is why. Or you want to load your own ammo? Great. Here's a really brief overview of what it what it involves, or um, what is standard deviation so you understand what it really means. What is extreme spread? So you understand what it means. Why are those numbers different? And why should they matter which ones should you pay attention to? You know, things like that. So I figured we might as well start there.

SPEAKER_01: 17:37

I think it's a a great start, and then you kind of move into external ballistics and kind of you know, jumping into all sorts of different things. I mean, there's there's a lot of things too. We got ballistic software, calculating wind speed, and I mean wind calls, moving targets. There's a lot of different things you cover, but you know, I again let's just kind of go in that order of those sections. So you got external ballistics, what all you cover in there?

SPEAKER_00: 17:56

Well, I'm just gonna look at the table of contents so I can remember. External ballistics has ballistic software, why wind matters, density altitude, gravity ballistics, and a chapter called Funky Bullet Behavior. And funky bullet behavior was, you know, the kind of a catch-all of aerodynamic jump, for example, something that most shooters haven't even heard of or know that happens. You know, that's the vertical shift due to a sideways wind. You know, they they get a wind from the left to the right and they know it's going to move the bullet to the right, but they don't realize it's also gonna drop the bullet down, too. And so I explain what aerodynamic jump is in there and how to calculate it. I I go deeper into spindrift and even give the math if you wanted to figure out spindrift, you know, on paper for yourself, you know, based on the stability of your bullet and things like that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:40

Um, you know, when when you kind of talk about uh ballistic software, um what is it that you're you're mainly using as far as I mean, I I I know because I've read the book there, but um, what are some things, you know, because a lot of people they're like, man, you know, do I need a Kestrel? Do I do I need to have something if I'm gonna go a thousand or or beyond or or around those ranges there too? And I mean, I I've I've used different you know, ballistic calculator software and things too, and you can kind of get really, it's dope, right? Data on previous experience of being able to really kind of know exactly what your rifle's gonna do with that ammunition. But these are, you know, we have tools in the tool belts that um you know weren't around maybe 20 years ago in the same capacity of reliability that we have now. And I was just kind of curious if there's a few that you throw out that uh you might, you know, suggest people kind of look into, maybe not just the only one. And I know that there's different ones that you've tried out, so uh, you know, maybe some that you've uh had some success with.

SPEAKER_00: 19:32

Yeah, I I would recommend, even though you said not the only one, I'm gonna tell you the only one. Um, if someone just says, hey, what what should I be using? It's Horn of the Fordoff. Use Horn of the Fordoff. It's the way to go. Now, if you are going to get into the nuances of really wanting to be super professional and all this, yeah, maybe use applied ballistics. Because applied ballistics is kind of the standard of you know ballistic information and Brian Litz and all that. There's amazing stuff. However, I think. I think that's more complicated than most people need. You know what I'm saying? I think applied ballistics to me looks like a uh airplane cockpit. It has so many buttons and so many controls and all that. And you don't need that. You you need the Toyota Tacoma dashboard to figure out what's going on, right? And it just works. Um, so the Horn of the Fordoff app is what I use almost solely myself, just because it's so easy. I can open it up and I can just spin the wheel with my thumb for the distance and I can see the things nice and clearly on the screen without wondering, wait, screen setting back, then change, then back, then I'm looking at my results, and I gotta go three more screens back to make sure something wasn't turned on and then back to this one, it's just too much for me. Um so also I would say that other apps might come along and catch up. So I don't want to put in writing not to use the other apps, but I'll I'll be as bold to say that I think apps that use ballistic coefficient are uh outdated now. So if you're using an app that is based on ballistic coefficient of the bullet, I think you're outdated. And that's why five years ago, 10 years ago, when people were using ballistic software, and they all swore by how accurate it was. We all know, if you're honest with yourselves, you all know somebody, or maybe it's yourself, that would sit there at the range for 15 minutes playing with your software, trying to true it, trying to tweak it, trying to get it to match reality. And it was always this theoretical that never quite matched up. Well, now, um, like with the Fordoff app, I'll pull it out with a new cartridge, get a guess, and it is scarily accurate how good it is on on what it can get at distance and environment and stuff like that. And the reason is both those apps are the only two I know of right now that are using bullet libraries where they are actually tracking what the bullet really did. So um ballistic coefficient, quickly, I talk about this in the book. The reason I think it's dead is you can't trust it. Um, I think manufacturers might be tempted to advertise better than real ballistic coefficient numbers because we're always looking for the highest one. You can to measure it. So if you pull it out of the box and look at it and you look at the number the manufacturer told you, you have no way of knowing if that's accurate or not. And then when you shoot it through your rifle, depending on your particular barrel and your rifling marks or everything, you might actually be changing the ballistic coefficient in your gun versus someone else's gun. And as it flies down range, we all know the ballistic coefficient changes. So the ballistic coefficient is only based on a certain speed. So I'm shooting at a thousand yards, you actually are having three or four different measurable ballistic coefficients as it gets to the target. So, how in the world are you supposed to be able to base anything off of that? And that's why ballistic software was closed but never dead on. So Hornady and Applied Ballistics both have these really impressive Doppler radar setups where they'll shoot the bullet and measure what the bullet did do, not what it should do. This is what the bullet did do, and they put it in the app and it just makes it so much easier to use.

SPEAKER_01: 22:52

I think that's a very important thing to look at, and especially because you can overcomplicate all of these things. And you've seen it done, and people pay high dollar, and there's I think that like that really getting out there on the range and figure it out. Because you know, as as you talk about too, and for those who are are looking into maybe even reloading, every single time you change powder, primer, casing, bullet, every single thing changes a temperature. Is it a temperature stable powder? Uh, what how is the powder made? Is it a shortcut? Is it regular? Is it round? Is it there's so many different components there that can change everything? And then, you know, a lot of people, you know, we probably know this because we've done a a lot of reloading too. Is that factory ammo has, you know, it's the the tolerances are different. You know, you're gonna have things that one round here may be different than this lot, and it may be a different powder. They don't list necessarily what it is, and things can change. And so you got to kind of find is you know, if anyone's going off the factory, always tell them, hey, try to get you know matching lot numbers at least to be able to kind of get some things as most consistent, but they're not gonna get as consistent as if you hand load something uh yourself. And even depending on what equipment you use. I know you use the Forster uh coax, right?

SPEAKER_00: 24:02

Yeah, that's a that's uh I use a Dillon too.

SPEAKER_01: 24:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in like even in that, you kind of talk about too, and I that's when I use the coax. Like I'm kind of measuring down on something that can give me 0.02 grains. So I'm I'm going very, you know, I'm adding one little piece of gunpowder to try to make it as most consistent as possible. Maybe it's overkill. I know you said, hey, if it's within an inch, you know, at a certain you know, range of whatever you're doing, it's gonna get the job done. And I kind of feel that way too. But if I'm going for trying to get something as accurate as possible, then I know that load data and I'm gonna stay with it for the rest of the life of the rifle. That's great. But sometimes it's overkill. Some people might just want to know, you know, hey, I want to shoot this. And you know, I think that the application of all this is important there too, of getting out there and doing it and kind of seeing the results for your rifle, for wherever you are, your elevation, because all these things change. Um, but kind of jumping into that idea of application, I'd love for you to kind of talk about what you cover there and uh, you know, what you hope uh people kind of take away from at the the tail end of the book.

SPEAKER_00: 24:59

Yeah, I would say that you loading your ammo like that is because you enjoy doing that. Yep. So do it. You know, um PRS is a great sport for people to do, not only because it it builds experience and and and it's fun, but it allows me to sit back and look at years of data and see what's working and what's not. You know, the the guy that just won Morgan King just won the golden bullet, which means he won this last year's entire PRS series. He was shooting factory ammo. Yep. So and guys that'll worry about, like, for example, the the half of a grain to get an exacto knife out there cutting granules of powder, it's like I've seen you shoot. Like that's not gonna help, right?

SPEAKER_01: 25:41

That's you know, um, this is your group yet, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:45

I would say, you know, I learned this from Chris Way. Um the idea of a one-second time of flight is kind of magic, and I haven't figured it out completely yet, and I want to explore it more. But under a second time of flight for any cartridge, the group size at 100 is what matters. So if you can shoot a minute or under at 100 yards, then that cartridge, whatever it is, out to about a second time of flight, you're gonna be great. And if you say, Yeah, but my you know, uh standard deviation is 30 feet per second, I I I don't care. It shoots a great group. So who cares? It's gonna be great out to about a second time of flight, which is you know, for 308, that's what, 800 yards, 700 yards, stop worrying about it. Um after that is when we really start to see standard deviation and extreme spread really start to matter a bunch. But so like getting super precise on this powder, great, do it. It takes all the variables out, you know, as many variables out as you can. But if we as shooters leaning off the tree, shooting at 500 yards, can't hit a five-inch circle every single time, which I don't think we can. You know, I can't every single time, it's impossible. Then I would argue that maybe some of that stuff doesn't matter, but I know it all adds up. All right, so in the last section, the application section, I have determining wind, speed, and direction, compensating for wind, gun numberslash quick wind, moving targets, and then I had some what I think are more fun chapters at the end, which is why your training sucks. That's chapter 18. Chapter 19 is setting up the shot, and chapter 20 is ignore the reticle. And I called that one ignore the reticle because I don't know if I've preached anything more than focus on the reticle. And I'm not saying I'm changing that. I still think that 95% of the time you should be focusing on the retic. But you know, talking to Kaylin Wojaik, you know, uh everyday sniper or modern day sniper, um, it's everyday rifleman, modern day sniper. I think it's his two things. Um, talking to him, I thought he was screwing with me when I asked him about advice he had. He said, ignore the reticle. I thought he was doing that to mess with me because I'm I'm so much the focused on the reticle guy. And as he explained it, I went, Oh, that actually makes a lot of sense. Dang it, he's got a really good point. So I included the chapter about how he changed my mind on something.

SPEAKER_01: 27:59

Well, I I I think that's great. And like you said too, some of these things apply the majority of the time, but hey, there's the time where it doesn't. But you know, you've you've talked to some of the pros, some of the people who are kind of in this uh world, and you reference them throughout the book and say, well, you know, this person does it. And you know, sometimes it may be counter to some of the things that are that are going on that you've talked about before, but again, I I love the idea that you're laying it all out there and you're saying, hey, this works for me. I'm teaching you what I know firsthand account on my experience and not trying to, you know, BS something down someone's throat or, you know, or through their ears or eyes here, um, and really kind of just giving them what works for you. And you also say, you may disagree. And I love you say, send me a message if you you know disagree with this, or you find something that's different, and if there's a change, you know, in the next edition, I'll go ahead and uh you know footnote you in there. I thought that was clever.

SPEAKER_00: 28:50

I've already footnoted the I've already footnoted a few people, by the way. Yeah, because I can't type. Yeah, yeah. I still can't type. I've written books. I still I still stare at the keyboard when I type. So if there's typos in there that were that were missed, they'll point them out. I fix them and I've already included them. So current printings have I think five or six names in there. It's it's great to I think it's great to have a community of people. Part of that is to avoid the online bickering. So part of it is I'm like arguing, I'm having to almost argue in advance of the naysayers, right? It's like, okay, how what is someone gonna get on a forum or on Reddit or on somewhere? And oh, this is he said this and da-da-da-da. So I I I have one chance to get my point, the book. People have all the chances they want for the next years to criticize to argue back, and I I don't have a voice back to it. So I that's part of why I do that. Is I'm like, okay, well, now let's talk about this for a second before you get too excited. You know, I'm trying to hedge that.

SPEAKER_01: 29:42

Well, I think that's important, man. It uh it it's great because it also kind of lays things out and and gives that that kind of you know counter argument that someone's gonna make. Like, hey, yeah, this is how I feel about this. And uh I I I do really I love that idea that you're having people send it in. The first book I published, uh, we ran an edition and I started looking at all the different errors and the typos and the things because we were kind of quick to get it out. And then, you know, oh man, this you know, should have said there and said it was you know spelled wrong and the different there, and I was just kicking myself. And I I said, Yeah, I'm gonna run a contest. Whoever finds the most mistakes is gonna win the first signed edition of our you know next edition book. And uh then I started seeing how many came in, and I was like, okay, y'all need to stop. I didn't realize there's that many mistakes. But it was you know self-publishing. It was I I I live and learn, you know. But yeah, you gotta you gotta give yourself the right to make mistakes. You wait for something to be perfect, it's never gonna come out, right? Correct. Absolutely right. And that's uh I kind of feel like that kind of same thing too. If you can sit there on, like you were talking about, you know, people who are at the range on their app, like just shoot the damn gun, see what it does, figure it out, you know, quit putting stuff in the calculator, get out there and experience the real data by what's downrange on paper or a target or an animal or whatever. You're gonna know. And you know, the bullet didn't fail. You got the animal on the ground, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00: 31:01

Yeah, so yeah. If you want to play with the ballistic software, I I'm I'm tempted to tell people you should have stayed at home. You you you could have been sitting on your couch playing with your ballistic software. Yeah, and running theoretical numbers and running changes, and oh, look what this did, and oh, look what that. No, if I change the velocity of the BC, look what happens here. Great, that that that can be fun, but that's a video game. Yep, go sit on your couch and play your video game. If you're at the range, maybe let's shoot. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:26

Well, and you know, you did talk too about something that I found that was beneficial for me at the range just to kind of get that data too of being have a chronograph or something that being able to dobler. Um, if you want to maybe just kind of talk about those two pieces of equipment there and what that does and why that may be important if you're developing loads, or just to try to get data a little bit more precise.

SPEAKER_00: 31:44

Yeah, chronographs. You I didn't used to recommend people having them because they were a pain to set up. I mean, I'm not saying I'm against them, right? But it wasn't a range tool that I would like all the time because I had the magneto speed, I don't remember that I think. Oh, yeah, the one that stayed on the barrel. Yeah, yeah. You know, that changed the harmonics of everything. Everything, but it was easier than setting up an optical chronograph out there, making everyone else at the range pissed off because you're setting up stuff and you know, trying to get things lined up and you can't shoot another target because you got to move the chronograph now. You know, now the Garmin, I think it's the zero, is what they call it. Yeah, it's the best thing going. You know, I had a lab radar. I bought a lab radar, and I just I used it five times, and I don't think it ever worked right any one of those five times. I wanted it to work right, and I'd get something to pick up, and then it wouldn't, and then it wouldn't. It's just it was so frustrating. That little Garmin thing is cheating. You just take it out. There's no reason now to be shooting and not to own that and to have it set up next to your rifle and shooting. Because while that's one of the things you can measure, you can't measure the BC. You can measure the speed, right? And so that's how you're going to learn when you start collecting that data of oh, why are my rounds shooting so much faster? Oh, I've been shooting a lot. My gun's getting really hot. Uh, that makes sense. Oh, I started shooting in the morning and now it's really warm in the middle of the day. My ammo's been sitting in the sun. Oh, that makes a lot of sense. Or today is just way different than last month. What's going on? Oh, yeah, we had that big rain and all that moisture was in my basement. I was reloading, and all my powder might have gotten wet or humid, you know. That stuff matters. And you won't know any of that stuff matters unless you're recording it and getting it going. So I think if I'm gonna be out at a range and I have time to set stuff around me, and I'm not worried about you know, some imaginary tactical scenario that I'll probably never be in again, I'm gonna have a chronograph out sitting out in the ground next to me. And I I might even ignore it the whole time I'm shooting, but at least it's getting data for me, and I can go check and see what it does. No, very important, very important.

SPEAKER_01: 33:37

I've had kind of the same experience with lab radar stuff. It's it, you know, three shots, and then it wouldn't do anything for a few. But you know, that Garmin is uh I I've heard a lot of people talk about it. I have not picked one up yet, but I I think after this uh podcast they'll go and do that. Um just have it sit there, it's the way to go.

SPEAKER_00: 33:51

And then don't even you know, it's I I do a lot of different businesses, and a lot of it is internet and analytics and stuff. There's some things I don't want to measure, I don't care about when someone visited one of my websites if they came from whatever, but I still collect it. Right. Because at least if I want to look at the data, it's there. Same thing with the chronograph, just have it collecting. Yeah, and if you something something weird's going on, turn and look over at it and see what's going on. Yeah, it's that it's that easy, it just works.

SPEAKER_01: 34:15

There's an outlier. What was it? You know, yeah. No, you get to figure it out. You know, I I wanted to kind of you mention the other businesses. I'd love to have you kind of talk about those, of which there are many. I mean, you've been involved with a lot of different things, but you know, what are the the things you're spending a lot of time on? Uh, you know, now that you're you're not writing and get get this book, uh it's out now. What are some of the other things? You know, a gun university is one, let's maybe start there. But I'd love for you to kind of talk about some of the the projects and the things you got going on and uh you know what those mean to you as well.

SPEAKER_00: 34:43

Thanks, man. Yeah, Gun University I enjoy because I'm a I can be honest. You know, um, I don't think it's we're the only ones anymore, but when we came out, I think we were really the only one that gave bad grades to guns. Uh, you know, gun review site. You know, uh we're used to the gun community, everyone saying every gun is the best thing ever, you know. So, my example I used to give people when I started gun university, like, why are you doing that when there's so many other gun blogs out there? I said, Well, do me a favor. This is the example I gave. I said, Imagine you're a new shooter, you're new to guns, and you heard someone tell you about the Taurus Judge. And I want you to go to the Google machine and go ahead and Google for me Taurus Judge for CCW for concealed carrier home defense, something like that. Go ahead and do that for me. And the first couple pages, so 10, 20, 30 results are all how it's the best gun ever for concealed carrier home defense. So, okay, see all those results if we just scroll through them. Don't even read the articles, just look at the headlines. Okay. Do you agree with that? Do you believe that the Taurus Judge is the best gun ever for concealed carry? And the person hopefully would say, absolutely not. I said, okay, we agree. But now imagine you're a new shooter. You just saw 30 articles telling you that that's the best thing ever. That's not fair. That sets people up for failure. That's not okay. So I wanted to make a place that said, hey, if you want a gun that shoots a 410 cartridge in your hand, great, get one. But this is why I think maybe this would be better for custody carry, or maybe some new cartridges are turds. Some new guns are turds, some new guns, new cartridges are great. I wanted to have a chance to honestly tell you which ones were good and bad. And I wanted a website with no ads. So there are no no, that's not true anymore. I should say no ads from other companies.

SPEAKER_02: 36:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 36:27

So I I advertise my own companies on there. Yeah. So technically there are ads, you know. Um, so like FFL Safe is another company. It's a software company I made for FFLs. So it's it's a software company that runs all the ATF requirement compliance stuff for FFLs. That is advertised on the sidebar of Gun University. Other than that, there's no ads for companies. So that means if a comp if a cartridge comes out and a company that did it and I think it's a bad idea or I disagree with their marketing, I'm free to say it because they're not going to pull advertising. You know, so you you can trust it. So that's been a lot of fun is to be able to do the good grades and bad grades on Gun University. I just mentioned FFL safe. Um, I'm doing that one because as a fireman attorney, I represent FFLs against the ATF, and I think it is so unfair that FFLs are given so many requirements they have to follow, and they're not given any tools to do it. So the ATF has all these requirements, and I I get it, we're all big boys. It's on to you to figure it out. But you don't know what you don't know until you don't know it, you know, until you get in trouble for it. And uh I don't want people getting jammed up, I don't want people getting in trouble. And of all the software solutions that were out there, some were really good, I'd recommend, but none of them did everything right. Even the best ones had one or two glaring compliance problems that I would see people get in trouble with for the ATF. And it just came to one day about a year ago, maybe two years ago. I was like, I my me and my business partner, part owner in a software company, let's just make our own. So we just made our own, and then we were gonna charge for it. We were gonna we decided oh, we're just gonna be cheaper than the next best competitor. We're gonna be like seven bucks a month. This is gonna be awesome, and everyone's gonna want to use it. And then when we got ready to put it out, we ran the math. We're like, even if we get thousands of users at this much a month, and you know what? Instead of having to do all the credit card processing and all the returns if there's issues and all this and all that, let's just make it free. And we actually just made it free. So that also is a great excuse, too. So people come in on customer service for me, because I still answer the customer service emails. They'll come in and be like, hey, how come you don't have the ability to do you know, like batch imports off of a SKU that I can scan one and it brings in a hundred guns at once? I know that sounds really cool, and that would be neat to have someday, but this is free. It's really nice for me to be able to just go, uh-huh, that's super cool not happening here because we're the free one. So I do that. Uh Rocket FFL, I do. That's an online courses on how to get an FFL and get things set up the right way. That's been a lot of fun. But um, that was really popular five years ago. Uh, people are using Rocket FFL a lot. And I think now, in a good way, I think I've educated enough people that all my tips and tricks on how to apply this way or how to do this so you don't get in trouble or how to get it this way have all made it out there on forums or Reddit or stuff like that. And also with the NFA tax going to zero dollars for silencers and short build rifles and stuff like that, and with the wait times going down, um, I don't think as many people use it for FFLs. It's still a fun business, it's still great that it's out there. Um, but yeah, I think people it was really easy to convince someone to get an FFL when you had to wait a year to get a silencer, and with an FFL, you got it in a day, you know, or um you can just make your machine guns on your own, which you can if you get the right type of FFL, you can just make a machine gun whenever you want and tell the ATF later. Um, I don't think that's as popular anymore now. So if people want to get an FFL, I'd love to help them. Um if people want to stay out of trouble with the ATF, I'm here to help them. But that's usually um not needed. And then let's see what else do I have going on. I have the book publishing. I sold Mayday Safety a few years ago. Yeah. I've I've been trying to stay busy with things.

SPEAKER_01: 40:12

Are you doing a lot of speaking engagements these days? Or are you kind of getting called upon, or is that something you're kind of sticking home a little bit more?

SPEAKER_00: 40:18

I'm sticking home more with the kids. Um but I actually so I'm working on the next book right now, which is more of like a business life leadership book that I'm working on right now. And this one I think I'm I'm trying to get it properly published. Meaning, so these I published on my own. And um, but uh publishing on my own, I'll never make a New York Times bestsellers list. I'll never do anything like that because it's self-published. So the publishing world kind of looks down their nose at them. Even if I kick their butt, they still look down their nose at it for being self-published in their gun books, you know. Um, so I've been doing some leadership speaking. That was kind of cool. I got to go speak to the NAU football team recently, talk to their players about some uh life lessons about things, and and in the book I mentioned, you know, speaking at Sniper Fest. But yeah, lots of changes in life the last few years, and so getting back to resettled and um and enjoying time. I have a new baby. His is his I have four children now, and they span from 14 years old to newborn, and not newborn anymore, he's gonna turn one in a couple weeks. So it's it's been busy around our household.

SPEAKER_01: 41:17

Well, that the new book, you got all sorts of different things kicking out right now. Uh, congratulations on all those things. Um, you know, and that's one thing you you kind of mentioned there too. I want to make sure that if anybody has you know read either of your books or or is going to, make sure afterwards you're heading on to Amazon and leaving a review because these are the kinds of things that are super important, especially for people who you know have independent publishers, uh, to make sure you get some reviews out there and especially in the shooting world, how hard is it sometimes to be able to get those things out? I mean, you know, it it it's there's a suppression of things, um uh not to use you know tongue-in-cheek term there, but as far as like they are suppressed, they're they aren't as gonna they're not gonna be out there as much. So it's important that you know people who believe in uh being able to get this information out there, uh, you go support it by leaving reviews. I think that's uh paramount for for books, especially one like this.

SPEAKER_00: 42:11

You're exactly right. I appreciate that. Yeah, uh, it's all too easy for the algorithm to suppress gun books, you know, and it's not gonna get promoted, it's not gonna get a fair shake out there unless it has glowing positive reviews. If it does, then Amazon will say, Oh, okay, maybe this thing can be promoted. You know, but otherwise it it's it's it's easy to bury because that's a gun book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:35

Well, you know, speaking of the books there too, I mean, obviously you have, you know, people can go and get them off Jeff's website there. But for people who uh you know want to kind of get them uh in some signed editions too, I know that you have these on your website as well. Uh, why don't you go ahead and give people your website, your socials, where they can find those, and kind of the easiest way to go ahead and track these books down.

SPEAKER_00: 42:53

Yeah, we'll do. Well, the first way to get the book on Amazon is follow the link on the show notes for for this show, is you will you'll get a link there, you'll support the show and you'll be able to find them right there on Amazon. Um, but if you would like an autographed copy, uh RyanCleckner.com. So RyanCleckner.com, you can find autographed copies of the book. Uh when I get them in, so I I've I've received more angry mail that people are upset that they're not there yet, which is great. It's a compliment that you're upset that they're not there yet. I'm still waiting. It's we're coming up on a month here, and I'm still waiting on my author copies for me to even start signing and sending out. So the first book I have, the second book I'm still waiting on. Oh, any day now. My socials are uh just Instagram, just Kleckner, just my last name, C-L-E-C-K-N-E-R, or on Facebook. I'm there at Ryan Kleckner. You can you can find everything.

SPEAKER_01: 43:38

Excellent. Well, I'll have everything in the all the links in the show notes below. Um, you know, before we we sign off, is there anything that you'd like to share to all the people who have kind of you know supported you, followed you, purchased your books, uh, you know, been supportive of your business? Um, you know, kind of something that you'd like to leave uh with with those people and you know that have just appreciated what you've gone to to share, you know, as far as with our country and uh your service and you know all the things that you're doing now to help others.

SPEAKER_00: 44:03

Oh, that's kind of two different things, I think. Uh yeah. Um yeah, I want to everyone that supported this has been amazing. Um believe it or not, though, you guys with your support's been so amazing with the first book. That's what made the second book so hard, is because I was worried, like, oh, I don't want to let anyone down. Yeah, everyone's support that's able to buy these books and leave good reviews and tell people about it grows our community and allows me to have the lifestyle I do and the jobs I do so I can build things like software and not have to charge for it, you know, or I can write books and take the time to sit there and do it. I'm not having to go to a job that I hate. You know, I'm able to do something that I love and share these kind of things. So I really appreciate that. Um as far as like support, uh yeah, I'll leave it at that. Thank you guys. It's been great.

SPEAKER_01: 44:47

Cheers. Well, Ryan, thank you so much for joining me today. Uh, I appreciate all that you're putting out there in the world and uh looking forward to uh touching base and hopefully you know seeing you in person someday.

SPEAKER_00: 44:57

All right, thanks, man. Appreciate it. Cheers. Take care.