Speaker 1: 0:15

Hey, jesse, how you doing today. Man, I'm good. George, how are you? I'm doing fantastic. You are the first three-peat podcast guest, so congratulations. I think I need you to to get your jacket or something like they do in snl, right?

Speaker 2: 0:28

uh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1: 0:29

But yeah, I'll take a jacket yeah, yeah, we'll do it, camo man, you know, get it ready for the dove season there. So it might be a little hot, but it'll work out I don't think people wear uh camo jackets for dove hunting. Yes, yes, but this was. It'll be like a new first light thing and be fully breathable, you know, yeah, like their tree stuff.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 0:46

It'll work out. So, speaking of dove season, actually let's dive into that. Man, we're, you know, fresh in it and you've been out in the field a lot. Tell me a little bit about the experience so far.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Yeah, it's, you know it's. I think we're on the third or fourth year in a row where, uh, you need to to see like excited and happy biologists is pretty notable. Um, they I'm not saying they're typically cynical, but, you know, maybe a little, maybe a little bit on the pessimistic side of the spectrum. Um, and uh, you know the the outlooks have been great the past few years. Um, and I can back that up. You know, I think that we've seen a lot of birds out there, specifically morning doves. I can't remember what the estimate for Texas was, but something in the 31, 33 million birds we went out opening day did okay, it was one of those should have been 100 yards to the right deals. But who cares? Um, but you know who cares, um, and then, uh, every year, we, uh, we, we cater, uh, the stewards of the wild, uh, big dove hunt they do up in Albany and it's a ton of fun. This is my fifth year to go, um, lots and lots of new hunters coming out to that and we cook dinner one night. But the real perk of it is is that we're getting to go on a lot of the hunts when we're not working of it is is that we're getting to go on a lot of the hunts when we're not working and, uh, it is absolutely fantastic up there like very uh, good flights of birds. You know big, you know 200 acre sunflower fields, native sunflower, and just birds pouring in to these fields. So, uh, we had a couple really good hunts. One really, you know, moderate one one morning was just kind of dead, uh, but other than that, the afternoon flights were, you know, I don't know if you can use argentina-esque as a word, but it was argentina-esque or what that's impressive. Leave, uh, argentina to look like. So we have a lot of doves in the freezer. Probably I mean borderline enough doves in the freezer to last us, um, you know, something like 50 or 60 in there between me and victoria, um, and she shot her first limit too, which was not cool, yeah. She was like, are you crying? I was like, no, I'm not crying, yeah, but it was.

Speaker 2: 3:04

It was a good deal, you know, know, just to see new hunters out there and trail ranch outfitters out in Albany. He deserves so much praise for putting on these hunts and setting aside these really great fields, scouting, you know, at his own cost, and setting people up for success on their first hunts and you'd see there's 200 people there and maybe half of them are new hunters. I don't really know, but there's a lot of excitement and it's a profound experience to see all those people. You know, maybe they only shot one. I met a person she shot one dove and she was so excited about it. So I mean that that happens and every year getting to participate with that um and that aligning with the beginning of dove season, you know, and hunting season in general, it's a great way to kick it off. Um, it's kind of it's a very positive event, very fun Um, and just to get to see all these people out in the field and generally having a lot of success.

Speaker 2: 4:10

And then we cook this big meal for them and we have a dove plucking contest where I judge how well you pluck the entire bird and it's total chaos and there's just there's literally feathers flying. Everybody's had a couple beers in them and we get everybody to pluck a dove and they have to present it to me. I reject it if I don't think it's plucked well enough and then the winner gets a bunch of prizes. What are the prizes for that? We gave them a copy of the turkey book, a copy of the hog book, a Fowler hide supply dove strap, which I'm a huge fan of.

Speaker 2: 4:45

Uh. Uh, the Cameron's great, and he makes such great products. Um, and then some game shears uh, which are, I think, uh integral for cleaning doves and other birds, that either the Helen chin or the Joyce chin brands there's two different brands, both ending in chin C-H-E-N. Um, I've created an entire, like dramatic backstory, these two feuding sisters creating their own game share companies. I have no idea, though, and also, I gave them a subscription to my new project, the Peternal Project, to the winner. Now, the winner was probably like a 14-year-old kid too, which made it even better, you know. So he was just like. He was very stoked. So, uh, it's a good time all around.

Speaker 1: 5:31

Well, let's jump into the project man, cause I I want to talk about some of the dove setups that you have there in the video. There's all sorts of journal entry and everything. Let's just go ahead and bring it in. When did this idea come about? I know it just launched last month, but why don't we go ahead and catch people up on on this man? It's an amazing project and, uh, yeah, I'd love to hear more about it.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Yeah, yeah, great. Um, you know I, you know I've thought about books. You know I love, I love creating books. So, you know, turkey book hog book. There's an obvious next one, maybe maybe not, I don't know, we're just gonna be a little coy about that. But you know, I really wanted to create a format or platform where I could continue to present the education that I love so much. You know, just game cookery, processing, basically just like this linear line of enjoyment throughout, you know, from planning all the way to consuming that last package of whatever it is.

Speaker 2: 6:26

Um, and that that's kind of difficult in a one-on-one situation for a lot of topics, like you know, like blue crabs or doves, um, so I I thought that a, an online platform would be good, and then we toyed around with a few different for that. You know what would that look like? Is that YouTube? Is that a subscription? And we're in a very dynamic situation right now as far as media information and things like that. For instance, you know, like probably my most popular Dove recipe, the one that you know, has been reprinted in Texas monthly and it gets used a lot. I actually saw someone one time online they used my recipe as a verb, which I thought was a real win. They said I hot fried my birds and I was like I just I just achieved something right there. If you, if you're like, if you're turning the recipe for hot fried birds into a verb, it's like, oh, how did you cook them? I hot fried them. I'm like, oh, that's great. But you know, for instance, I Google search that today and the first thing that pops up is my recipe, but in AI form. So what you're seeing right now as far as online content is a lot of that stuff getting gobbled up. So the first hit on that is Google AI. You know, saying hot fried birds could be completed this way, and then my recipe verbatim listed below that, with no credit either. Yeah, so we're. You know, I really don't know what to do with that. You know, and we could we could discuss some more arching problems with the robots taking over, but I really think that you know what that did is inform what that step would be, and instead it is a subscription service. It's behind a protected paywall so that all this information is there, it's cohesive and, more importantly, not bound by.

Speaker 2: 8:22

A couple things that I think negatively influence the way that I'm able to present information. One is censorship and the fact that in our hog processing video we're gutting the hog. You know, you can't really see that on YouTube. I mean where we are, we did not cut anything out. Shoot the pig, we string it up on the gambrels, we open it up, we pull all the guts out and we're sorting through those guts. There is a lot of blood and that is that step two. So to me, I can't, I can't skip that step. And then that's followed by a really long form butchery. I mean probably 45 minutes of butchery. Essentially, my entire hog butchery class is contained on this website now and then from there we're getting into recipes and things like that.

Speaker 2: 9:16

So the censorship, the ability to present exactly what we want at all times in the most educational, honest and straightforward way. There's one reason that we've chosen this format and the other reason is just algorithm and playing the whole game. You know we're able to complete probably about four long form videos a year. You know YouTube videos. You know seven to 15 15 minutes long. Our hog video on the website is an hour and 44 minutes long. So that's not going to be um, you know good youtube format and also we're not able to produce something twice a week. You know of that caliber, you know the editing, the whole process so not not going onto youtube was also informed a lot by that. Also, the the need to continually create kind of what I would consider somewhat like fluff content, um, in order to play with that algorithm and maintain this. This, uh, visibility on on these sites is something that I didn't want to get into either. I want to be like we're going to be very metered and very thoughtful and intentional about how we create this and take our time to put out this very high quality video that is going to be as educational and useful as possible.

Speaker 2: 10:40

So we wound up with a subscription website, and so it is. You do have to pay for it. There's been, I mean, I'll speak very frankly. There has been a little bit of grumbling about that. But you know, nothing is really free in life. You know, if, if, if, I saw somebody make a comment. It's like if it's free, then you're the product and it's. It's kind of true, because I just need people to know that. You know, producing videos and editing them requires three or four people and they all, um, they want to get paid. You know it is not free, and in fact it is the opposite of free. It's quite expensive to produce this stuff and so we want to just make it a transaction. You know, and it's like this information is out there there's probably pushing five or six hours of video content on the website right now. With more to come, there will only be more added.

Speaker 2: 11:35

I added two new recipes yesterday, so now we're pushing about 80 recipes. So it's about a book's worth of recipes just on the four topics that we have currently covered. So in the first drop we started with dove, blue crabs, turkey and the first of four chapters of feral hog being a large sow, because that's what I shot that day. So those four topics are covered in lots of detail. You know, for instance, the crab, like how to crab in four different ways dropping pots, drop nets, uh, hand lines, and scooping them up at night, and then we go into steaming versus boiling and then, once you've got that cooked crab, we go into video recipes from there how to make all these different things crab cakes, stuffed crabs, things like that and then on the website that kind of dovetails into other recipes.

Speaker 2: 12:35

So there will be, along with the video format, recipes on there. There's written recipes for blue crab, and as I progress through the seasons as I'm basically, as I'm cooking dinner at home snap a picture, put up the recipe, and then we're just generating more and more and more, and so it's dove season now, and so there is more dove content coming on there online, as I'm making things with the doves that we shot up in Albany. You know, try new recipes, one works. You know, document it, make the notes, type out the recipe, put that up on the site, and so then it's just, it's an ever evolving thing, and as we introduce new topics, which are to come this fall, the website will just become more expanded.

Speaker 1: 13:19

Well, I love to that like like the setting up, the Do the dove field video. It's really informative on just kind of where to set up, how to set up, what to look for, and there's like all sorts of different interactive kind of like the different videos and screenshots you've done in the journal and then the video kind of walks you through everything. And then obviously the cooking preparation side of things tons of different recipes, and we're in a day and age where you know paying $50 for a cook standard and for $80, you're getting all these recipes for all these different animals. The laundry list of different animals you can click on and see is just, you know, phenomenal. And uh, then you know you're getting these videos and these how to's and these like little tips and tricks and like when you're crabbing you're showing all the ways. You're showing the best way to. You know line, pull and find scissors that are out in the middle of the water that you lost six months before and you know how to. You got all these different things that are super informative that if someone is coming from you know my background of you know doing a lot of dove hunting and stuff.

Speaker 1: 14:16

I'm learning something too from somebody who's a seasoned veteran who knows how to do that, and then being able to have the cooking side of things too. So I mean, for less than seven dollars a month to be able to have access to all that, it was a no-brainer to me. Second, I saw that I'm just like, yep, purchase that. And it's great, because every single time I'm seeing a new journal come in, I'm like, oh, that's really cool, man. A little entry about something and it's really, you know, entertaining, educational, informative, and I like that you don't have to, um, kind of like cut it for, you know, youtube or some other kind of censorship, man, it's just really, uh, easy going and fun and uh, yeah, I think it's a great project. It's off to a killer start, man thank you.

Speaker 2: 14:53

I mean I really appreciate it and I think that you know you touched on something with with doves is is I, I think about doves a lot, you know, and and uh, where we just were this last weekend, you see there's, there's this um maybe mentality would be the the right word where you go and you just post up in a field somewhere and then you shoot the dubs and then you breast them out and then you cook them the same way, and that's fine. I had nothing wrong with that. If that's, if that's your comfort, and that's fine. I had nothing wrong with that. If that's, if that's your comfort zone and that's what you want to do, then that's, that's perfect. If that's not what you want to do and you want to explore that a little bit more, that's what this is for. So dubs are something that I'm very comfortable with and I feel like I I do fairly well, and so, yeah, we did. We did put some some front end stuff on there about, like, where to position yourself in a field, which I think is totally fascinating, and it's something that I constantly look at in a dove field and take note of, and it's something that I've noticed over the years that if you have a tree line and then there's a gap in those trees, just one little gap, I'm not saying all the doves are going to fly through that gap, but more doves are going to fly through that gap, but more doves are going to fly through that gap than than something. That's just a monotony of tree line like, just like a just the same height, or, for that matter, if you have one tree out in the middle of a field, doves are tending to cross over that tree for some reason, and that's, that's just. That's up to the doves. I'm not, I'm not getting in their brains or anything, but it's just an observation that if you compile these things, doves love straight lines, they love power lines, they love fence lines, they love roads.

Speaker 2: 16:36

And when it really became obvious to me as I was at a hunt, it was last season and we were up near Lubbock and I'm in a cornfield. The entire cornfield had been cut, there was no cover around the edges and they posted everybody up around the edges and the field was big enough where you could safely go out in the middle of the field and hunt. It was a couple hundred acres and so I was not in any danger of getting peppered or anything. I walked out in the middle of that field and I swear there was as far as cover the entire property. There was three corn stalks that had not been cut and I stood next to those and I got more shots than anybody else in that field. I think I killed 12 birds and people were maybe getting two or three or four.

Speaker 2: 17:20

And it's not because I'm a great shot because I'm not, and it's not because I'm a great shot because I'm not, but I had more opportunities because you know, these doves, for some reason, just that one little bit of I would call it structure were flying over it and I think that that's just very notable and to be able to kind of communicate that in an almost nerdy way. You know, as the first part of this thing, you know and I keep mentioning this this like linear enjoyment of it, and so it's like you have a new spot that you can hunt doves at, you know, but you're not going out there yet, but you can still look at the aerial map of it. You can still pull up Onyx and look at it and start to analyze and be like you know what if I was to set up in this field. You know the pond is right here and there's a corner and there's a big gap where you know there's a road here or something like that. And then you start to see these lines because we tend to use our perspective on the ground, whereas obviously they're looking down and for some reason they love like flying, almost like a map. You know, know, they love those straight lines and they love something that guides them and so you can start enjoying that entire process before then you go on the hunt, and then there's the cleaning of the birds, and that's another thing. It's like I'm I'm an adamant dove plucker. We are always the last people out of the field because we are plucking doves.

Speaker 2: 18:45

And this is, you know, this is where I, you know, I try not to sound, you know, this is not a holier than thou, this is not a judgment or anything, but I, I, just I enjoy plucking doves. I think you get a lot of meat out of them that way and I think it's the most respectful thing to do for a dove. You know, to get to Albany, texas, to go on a dove hunt, it's a four-hour drive, you know. So I think just that statement alone negates the time argument. You know well it takes so long. I'm like, listen, I've got an eight-hour round trip just to do this thing. An extra 30 minutes in the field to pluck them with friends, potentially with a beer. I mean there's nothing that's not fun about it.

Speaker 2: 19:32

And if you can just convince yourself, if you can change your mind, like change your mentality, to enjoy every step of the way, you know, the hunt, of course, is fun, the birds are flying, knocking birds down, finding a bird, all fun. If you can enjoy the plucking part where you're like, oh, I'm good at this, I'm fast at this, this is going to be delicious. That's just another thing that you can enjoy in that whole step. And then there's the saving, the offal, the packaging, and then you move on to cooking, and so we're kind of covering all of that. And it goes back to even the name of the project. I mean this is very appropriate, george, because you're sitting in front of a bunch of artifacts. Those are all made out of Flint and the Spanish word for Flint is Peternal. So that's the Peternal project and it means it's like a foundation, it's like a foundational tool. It's meant to be like throughout.

Speaker 2: 20:26

How do you get the most out of this thing. And then if you, if you shoot eight dubs, what's the, what's the best way to enjoy it? And it's like you can really create something very, very special. With eight dubs, you can make the auditory and enjoy each individual part of the dove in a slightly different way. Is it more work? Yes, yes it is. But if you can, if you can convince yourself that it's fun, or if you can realize that it's fun, then I think that, uh, it's you. You're just creating a more enjoyable life for yourself. You know, you're just. There's another avenue of enjoyment in the whole dove hunting process there, and so we're trying to apply that to all these different topics.

Speaker 2: 21:06

Now, you know, if we were to go on a big game hunt, like for odd out or venison or something, am I going to give you tips and techniques on that? Probably not, you know, because there's enough content out there and there's, and I'm not good enough, you know. But there's certain things that I know on that front end that I do want to share, but where I would be specifically skilled in a situation like that, would be the butchery and the cooking, and so we're going to load the back end of that more, because I also, you know, in communication with a lot of people, friends, you know customers and guests, and you know I find that that's really what they. What they desire is like to learn more about butchery and cooking and different ways of doing it, and just conceptual things and teaching foundational techniques. You know, like how to roll an enchilada, how to stuff a pepper for a chili relleno, how to slow cook birds and shred them and utilize that, how to make stocks, things like that that are daunting but actually quite simple. And once you develop those conceptual skills, then you can start applying that to anything and you can manage your time better too. It doesn't have to be this all day thing, because I think that's what the detraction is Is that people see that as like that's going to take too much time. I don't have the equipment, I'm not able to do this, and my point is is you absolutely can do this, this is how, and this is how to manage that time, and this is how to package it and freeze it for later.

Speaker 2: 22:33

And then we're entering the end of that timeline, which is, like you know, the cooking process, like making all these new dishes becoming comfortable enough to like, know that, oh god, I I don't have a red onion, but I have a white onion and I'm like it's cool, don't worry about it. You know like, or hey, I don't have mint, but I have some basil. I'm like, try it out. You know like, just just give it a shot, you know. Or I don't have either one of those things. It's cool, you know. I mean it might be a little better. But also, you know, just give it a shot. And then the consumption of that thing, all the way to that last package, and then we're at the end of the line. There. We've gone from this anticipation. We're looking at online maps Like I want to post up right there. This is going to be so fun the hunt, the packaging, the consumption, it's all done. And I think that you know trying to navigate through that whole thing with people and just empower them as much as possible with the whole point.

Speaker 1: 23:28

Well, and to that point too, there's there's two things I wanted to say. That one is about how, like what's done after the hunt. But the idea too that I think is really powerful with having a project like this is, you know, I come from an educational background and I know that people learn differently. You know some people by reading, some people, by hearing some people visual right. So whenever you're able to have all those things in one place, you can be able to teach and be able to share that information and to more people. And a way that I think really hits too, because people may look at a recipe about rolling enchiladas and they're like I don't know how to do that, but then you see it or you hear someone talk about it, and then you can be able to be like, oh okay, I got the concept. It's not as difficult as I was perceiving it to be when I was just reading it, and I think that way too, to kind of get that threefold touch of that information and seeing someone do it, is really, really important, and so that's something that I really love about this project, where it's kind of the best of all worlds there, I think, for the end user to really get that full experience and fun.

Speaker 1: 24:33

Anecdotes and stories and, just you know, entertainment stuff along the way too. It just keeps it. It's very. I mean, an hour and 45 minute video just ran through in no time. So I was like, oh, this is cool, man, and all the other ones too. They're all at least an hour right. So there's it's. It's not this little short bit of information. You can really dive deeper. You can watch a little bit, come back to it, whatever you want to do, you know and keep it where it was.

Speaker 1: 24:55

Um, but when I was thinking about too, like when you're saying, like you know, of round out the end of like a hunt and like you know the turkey feathers there behind you I know you can't have any more in the house, but, um, you know the idea too of your gizzard stones, like and I wanted to talk about that too with like the turkey and what you do, and like the medicine bottles and whatnot.

Speaker 1: 25:15

I'd love for you to kind of tell that story of of how you do that, but there's, there's so many little memories that trophies, if you will, or whatever it is at the end of the hunt, that kind of remind you of that experience, of your friends, your family, the camaraderie in the field and just the experience of being able to have, when that that last package of meat is done, it's not the end of the hunt. There's always something there that I think we we keep, and I love the the kind of you know visceral, you know visual thing where you can kind of see that in the medicine bottle. I'd love for you to kind of tell that story, if you wouldn't mind.

Speaker 2: 25:43

Yeah, actually over my shoulder right there, those are my, my, my jars. So my, my, um, what do you call it? Uh, um, no, I'm just like my brain is failing me. Uh, tradition is to uh clean the gizzard stones out of a Turkey, um and it. What's really interesting about that is it can be all different colors. I've got some over there that are jet black those are from Washington, for some reason and then sometimes they'll be like this pale brown, Sometimes they'll be more yellow, sometimes there's a lot of them, sometimes there's not.

Speaker 2: 26:18

So you know any bird that collects grit and stone and its gizzard and uses that to grind up seeds. So when you're cleaning the gizzard to make it edible, you peel those seeds out. I like to clean them and we go through that in the video. Just a little bit of dish soap and water and you'll get them clean in no time. It's a very easy process. It takes five, ten minutes.

Speaker 2: 26:40

But then my favorite part of it is that I will find an antique store close by and I will try to find a jar that is from that area. Maybe look at the bottom or just purchase a little medicine jar from the area, and I bought them in South Dakota. I bought them in Wisconsin, bought them in Oregon, I bought a lot of them here in Texas. You know, just, you know, after a good, successful turkey hunt, you just drive by and you see like either a thrift store or one of those like ratty old antique stores which I just absolutely love. Oh yeah, you know, and I'm just going to pull over.

Speaker 2: 27:18

And you know, I went into Lockhart one time and I walked in the door and the lady was, you know, she's like can I help you? And I just looked to my right, all the medicine jars were there and I was like that one. I picked it up and I walked over and I handed it to her and she was just like what, what's happening here? Like you, you just walked in, found exactly what you needed, that's all you need. And I said you're not going to believe me if I told you me, and I'm like, all right, buckle up, I'm going to clean the gizzard stones from a freshly dead wild turkey and put them in this jar. And she's like I don't know what, what you just said thank you, ma'am, here's your three dollars, I'm out. And so, uh, yeah, I think it's part of it, you know, and I'm I I'm kind of obsessive about it.

Speaker 2: 28:04

I love keeping, you know, a feather and a hide and gizzard, stones and little things here and there, yeah, as reminders. You know, like hunts with my daughter, I can identify immediately the jars from there, things like that. So it's important and I mean it does translate again to just enjoyment. You know, there's all kinds of things that you can take home, you know, I mean that literally and metaphorically, from these processes that we enter into. You know, and it's like maybe not so much with crab, you know that'll get a little stinky, but, um, you know, I I think that that you, you can get stuff like that out of there and and and putting that content in, I think has some value. If you don't want to do it, it's cool, you don't have to, but it's just. You know. This is just another thing that I really love about this process.

Speaker 1: 28:54

Well, I found that really fascinating and I had heard about it before. But I was like, okay, man, now I'm starting to think about the medicine bottle aspect. We have like a in our place in South Texas. There we had a whole array of all the bottles that all my family has used since like the early 1900s and of course, as a kid I was like, oh, this is fun, I'm gonna go shoot him with the 22. And then I got older I was like, oh, that stupid kid, what was he doing? And so now I know like underneath there's some that are even older and I'm going to start digging through those there and just kind of I was like that'll be fun to kind of have that take a turkey from there and be able to use it. And then you know something that my great granddad had, right, and just it's just a fun little kind of thing to put together of those hunts. I love that idea, no-transcript, and that kind of ties it back in. Uh, just to kind of recap all those amazing times we've had in the field. So, uh, I I really appreciated that little section.

Speaker 1: 29:58

Um, one of the things I wanted to talk about was that you also have a big event happening. You know it'll be tomorrow. We're going to we're recording this on Thursday, dropping on Friday and tomorrow's going to be the Meat Eater Tailgate that you're going to be doing over at Archery Country with our buddy Tyler Vander Kolk there. And why don't you tell me a little bit about this? This is the second year, I think, that you've done this and they're kind of going all around the country kind of doing tailgating sessions at you know different venues, kind of before these football games, and kind of tying in all sorts of different you know fun food and just you know family environments there. So why don't you tell me a little bit, maybe about last year and what you're looking at this year? And yeah, just kind of laid out.

Speaker 2: 30:34

Yeah, last year we did it down pretty close to the stadium. A lot of traffic, it was kind of crazy. This year we're doing it up at Archery Country with Tyler, who is one of my favorite people in the whole world, and you know Archery Country is just such a great place in general I'm not even an archery hunter and I love going in there. He has the kindest, most helpful staff ever, and I think that's just. It really needs to be noted that Tyler has created, uh, an incredible culture, um, in something that has a kind of um, you know, a, a, a barrier to entry or a perceived one that could you, could, you could be treated very poorly. When you walk into an archery shop and you are not there, you are treated. It's great. I mean, the way that he has set that place up and set the standard for know being friendly and and helpful, uh, it's just is really incredible, and so we're we're hosting it there.

Speaker 2: 31:34

Uh, twa will also be there, texas wildlife association um, I think they're going to have some information about their adult learn to hunt program and their other programs. So twa is another friend of mine. You know. We just conference and um, and then meat eater, of course, uh, and we'll be cooking up some uh, north bridger bison is the sponsor, so we'll be cooking up some bison and uh, just serving all day, I think from around I would say let's just call it mid-morning I can't remember the exact times right now Until kickoff, basically up at Archery Country here in Austin, and it should be a really good time. We're going to bring a lot of food.

Speaker 1: 32:15

That's awesome. That is really fun. I mean, I heard great things about it. Archery Country is second to none out there. I went in there to kind of get my feet wet in the archery world and started shooting.

Speaker 1: 32:27

He's like, you know, let's see what, uh, dominant eye are you? And I'm like, oh, my right, of course. And then we did the test. He's like, no, it's your left, you idiot. And I was like, oh, perfect. So, uh, it was really good, because then you know, that's one of the two sports you have to, you know, work with your dominant eye, uh, or it's best to.

Speaker 1: 32:49

And we just kind of walked through, man, that the process going with those guys is is phenomenal. And again, tyler is great. Had him on previous podcasts. Y'all should check that out. Uh, and obviously that has been growing, man, you know got, uh, you know got. You know some new folks there as part of owners and Joe Rogan, cameron Haynes, you know there's some other folks that are a part of that too. It's just really that thing is just going to continue to blow up and it started with the great foundations. Man, tyler's awesome, so I'm excited to know that you're out there and doing that. Yeah, that'll be a great event. Are there some other things that you have kind of coming up with, different events where you're going to be doing some live cooking or some different things coming in, you know, leading up to the fall, that you're excited about you want to talk about I?

Speaker 1: 33:29

mean not a lot.

Speaker 2: 33:30

You know we are kind of just buckling down for a busy restaurant season. You know, I think we're. We just completed another survey from Michelin. You know they reached out to us so they're doing their uh presentation and I think that's in november. So and we we're probably up for, you know, and maybe another green star and we anticipate getting busy beyond that.

Speaker 2: 33:55

Um, you know I've got a, a meat eater uh, hunt up in south dakota. Uh, with ryan callahan in december is for Pheasants Forever. Looking somewhat forward to that. I checked the weather last December for South Dakota and I was like is this some sort of typo? What's going on with this number? There's only one number. It just says two. What is that? I didn't know. It goes that low. So I'm probably going to be very cold for that one.

Speaker 2: 34:26

But I'm doing a lot of cooking for that and then just kind of getting ready for really doing some more content for Peternal Project you know this this fall. So we're really looking forward to getting into more hogs. I do want to present the other three hog sizes as they come. I don't know if the hogs are going to cooperate in like just donating to me a large for a medium hog and a small hog, but hopefully we can. And then, yeah, just doing some more fun content with that. And then I'm also I mean, I got my annual uh trip to the coast in october. This is personal, you know deal. I'd love to go fish down on the coast in october. It is just gorgeous down there and weather is good and the fish usually are cooperating pretty well in october, with, you know, big shrimp migrations happening and stuff. So I get pretty, pretty excited about that. Taking, taking kayaks down and hitting the marsh pretty hard trying to get after some redfish and anything else that'll eat a shrimp.

Speaker 1: 35:30

Nice, that sounds fun, man. Um, when you were kind of talking about that and the hogs, I had a memory uh came up about the it was the pancetta that you had in the video with the most translucent fat that I've ever seen, and that thing just stuck out, um, as far as like that area, because that was like, uh, they were all eating pecans, right? Yeah, that was very notable.

Speaker 2: 35:54

I mean it's it's. It's good and bad when you're, when you're presenting information like that, because sometimes what you want is something that's like middle of the road, generic, right, generic, that's the perfect word for that and uh, but it's not what we got. But at the same time, that diversity of experience is exactly what you always experience in hunting. So you do have to be ready. And also the shot shot placement on the hog. I won't ruin it. It wasn't optimal but it was effective, very effective. But that pig was probably the most unique hog that I've ever killed and the most delicious. It had, in my mind, only been eating pecans.

Speaker 2: 36:43

I rendered fat from that hog and it remained liquid in the refrigerator and lard always sets up hard, you know, like very, sometimes it's like scoopable, but this was, I mean, full on liquid, like you could just turn it over and it would all run out. And the sausage that it made was in turn. It wouldn't make link sausage. You couldn't make link sausage out of it because the fat as you grounded, the fat just liquefied and it was high. I contacted a doctor friend of mine, anthony Guston, and I was like hey man, what is up with this? And he's like. That's polyunsaturated fat from it likely only ate pecans, and so where we were hunting these animals there's uh pecan orchards on two sides of the property, so cultivated pecans, and then the that area is uh river bottom and it is only native pecan down there. There's hardly any oaks on the property, so not even really an acorn there, and it was a it's been a fantastic pecan year. This is a second or third year in a row. We've already got pecans on the ground now.

Speaker 2: 37:51

So actually going out there on Tuesday to try to kill a hog because they've had probably three or four weeks of pecans already it made for an incredibly delicious animal, although the fat was um. It made for an incredibly delicious animal, although the fat was um, I don't. I mean, I wouldn't say it was a negative. Uh, it was definitely a positive, it was just very different. I've never experienced fat that behaved that way, and that's just one of those things that you gotta learn and kind of pivot and deal with in hunting is that nothing is ever the same, particularly with hogs. So in a way, I'm very glad that that's the hog, because I, you know, during the video I don't know how many times I've said it was like this is a very fat pig, because I mean there was a good, you know two to four inch fat cap on oh yeah, the whole thing was white.

Speaker 1: 38:36

Once you skin that thing out, you couldn't even like that.

Speaker 2: 38:39

You could not see any red on any of it, and most of that shot was insane so I mean, hopefully, you know, we can get a lean boar and kind of deal with that. You know, because that's, you know, its own system right there and it's like this is what I'm going to do with that and it's by no means going to be as diverse as what I can do off of that fatty sow, um, but it's still highly useful. You know, and you just like, if you're, if you're going to take two pigs and one's like nice fat sow and one's a boar, then like learning how to dole out these two different things into you know, like we're going to make a lot of sausage with this one and we're going to do a lot of cuts with this one, the fatty sow, you know, like our grilling cuts and things that we're going to throw in the smoker, this kind of rangy, leaner boar over here we're going to mostly grind or make stew meat out of, which is useful and in fact it's highly useful if you think about it, in that you don't have to use that from the super optimal hog. You don't have to take from that category, from that pile in order to make those things. You don't have to make your chorizo with this beautiful pecan fed sow. You can make it off of this boar instead and then add in a little bit of the fat from her.

Speaker 2: 39:51

So I think that you know, like freezer management is another thing and that's I'm going to be working on a journal entry about freezer management because I think that's a huge thing. That's how I hunt and cook is based on freezers. I like someone might be like, hey, do you want to go fishing? I'll be like I mean I do, but I don't need to so appreciate it, like I won't go until the need is there. So, um, you know, in managing freezers and like looking and saying, oh hey, we're almost out of venison, or next year I need to never make more breakfast sausage Cause we ran through that the quickest and these things are all part of it, and that's very tangential what I just went on.

Speaker 1: 40:32

So no, I think that's it's. It's critical to look at that kind of thing too. And you know when you were thinking, when you were talking about that, and you know in the video too, and you know you pull out a pecan, you're eating one of one of the native pecans there and you're like I think I'm going to grab some of the you know actually, pecan. You know branches and stuff to do some. You know smoking and utilizing something from around that area. It's kind of a nod man and I love that. I've been, I've been kind of doing that for years, whether it's dewberries and you know, kind of making some kind of little sauce or taking some of the prickly pear fruit and being able to kind of make something there, just kind of trying to bring out something else that is from that environment that I don't know man, it's just something. That kind of ties that all in. Uh, in a way that it's it's been in the forefront of everything that I've been doing each year for the last like couple years is trying to tie those things in and uh, you know, I love, know, I love that idea too. And you were like I think I'm going to, you know, smoke the pecan. You know, pull back on the mill scale.

Speaker 1: 41:27

Let's talk about mill scale a little bit. Man, you've been doing some work with those guys and uh, man, they got some amazing gear. We just drove through Lockhart, um went to Terry Black's the first time and I looked over and I hadn't seen mill scale. I hadn't gone into that part of Lockhart for a long time. What a facility. We're going to go and check that out very soon in person. I'll have to call and make sure they're all there and working and the hours are right. But man, tell me about them, because they are just blowing up some amazing stuff.

Speaker 2: 41:52

Yeah, matt and Caleb and their entire crew, they're just incredible. I mean just great people, and the quality of the functionality and the craftsmanship that they put into everything is just, it's just beyond. I and what I really appreciate with them is that they are very in the whole smoking and barbecue world. Admittedly, I that is not my forte. I like cooking above heat, I like cooking over high heat and proud of that, you know, it's like I'll own it, you know, and they are very amenable to that too. And so like, the grills that I work with from Mill Scale are typically they're small the Yakitori, the Scout, the Amigo, these smaller direct heat grills that are just, you know, kind of deceptively simple but they conduct heat and channel heat in just incredible ways. I mean very moderate amounts of charcoal or wood can go in there and you can generate a lot enough heat to sear, you know, a steak or cook some turkey, or you can kind of like slow roast things up above. And they're typically very adjustable as well and just beautifully made, um, just really nice and fun to fun to cook on.

Speaker 2: 43:11

It's just like when you look forward to using something you know.

Speaker 2: 43:16

It's like I look forward to to using a mill scale. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna grill tonight and it's gonna be, it's gonna be easy and it's gonna look good, this beautiful grill, and it's just gonna just having these beautiful, nice tools made by nice people too, you know, and and a lot local company. You know they're out in Lockhart and I just really appreciated the relationship that we've had with them. And then, like when I go to bigger events, you know, like the deaf hunt in Albany, they'll roll out the big. You know the thousand gallon smoker with the Santa Maria and and the fire table where there's just there's stuff going on everywhere and it's a magnificent, you know, and it's just showstopper. You know they they've kind of got this beautiful, um, they're like they, they walk right between you know, functionality and and and beauty there too, you know, for me and function and and I really appreciate that about mill scale products, you know they're just, they're so nice and, like I said, you know just couldn't be nicer people well, and that's something too.

Speaker 1: 44:15

You found, I think, a great group of different people that you've connected with. You work with um and you know a lot of things y'all have done with. You know conservational aspect too, whether it's twa, whether it's meat eater uh, first light, you know. I know poncho. Uh, you know lone star. There's a bunch of different companies Um, what about those are are important to you to connect with those and like the ethos of some of these groups that are really doing uh, making amazing products, one, but also you know doing something, I think that leaves a lasting impact for impact for people who love the outdoors.

Speaker 2: 44:50

Yeah, I mean, we have to be real about stuff like this too. You know it's like, once you have even a bit of notoriety in the outdoor space, you know you start to get approached by brands and I think that's it's part of it. It's part of it, and the thing that I have always tried to have guide me is just like do does that product work? Is it good? Are they great people? You know it's like Fowler hide supply. You know it's like. You know I'm not on their payroll by any means. You know it's just like. But he's, he's amazing and he makes amazing products and he's, he's amazing and he makes amazing products and he's, he's passionate about it. And so I talk about it as much as I can.

Speaker 2: 45:34

You know, first, light meat eater have been formative, um, and very supportive and I've always enjoyed working with them. Poncho you know, again, I've been wearing poncho forever, um, and it's been fun to see that. You know, kind of small Austin company go to a big Austin company and you know, objectively, making great shirts. You know we wear them in the kitchen. You know it's October. I'm down on the coast. Those ultralights are. You know, you cannot beat that. You know.

Speaker 1: 46:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:06

It's very comfortable, and so working with these brands, you know, it's just, it's uh, it's easy, and I mean in full disclosure. There's also brands that I've turned down just because I'm like, no, thank you. You know, I'm sure it's wonderful, but no, thank you, I'm just I'm not, I'm not into it, either because you know preference, or it's just not something I would organically use, and so there's that too, you know. So I mean I'm yeah again. You know I want to be perfectly honest about all of it. You know how this this works. You know, sometimes it's product, sometimes it's, you know, a little bit of cash here and there, but but really it's, it's just about supporting other people that, I think, make this whole experience better or easier or more beautiful, you know, like one of those things. So I'm proud to work with those brands.

Speaker 1: 46:55

Oh, some great brands there. Man hands down. You know another. It's not a brand you're working with, but it's a company that you are a part of there with the wild books, and I wanted to talk about that. You know this.

Speaker 1: 47:06

You and Jody Horton have created, you know, some of the best books out there. Obviously they're right above me here and those are all available at least the Hog Book, a turkey book there, and some really cool gear, some you know, connections there with First Light. There's some great bandanas and there's all sorts of great shirts and stuff too, and I really wanted to talk about that, because that's a whole nother Avenue and people can go there and they're supporting you know, you and Jody local company kind of creating these amazing, amazing books. Um, and congratulations, by the way, another James Beard award, uh, or a nomination there for the Turkey book all three of them now have been nominated. Uh, the hog book, uh, one as well, and uh, and yeah, so congratulations on that. And yeah, tell me a little bit about the Wild Books and you know what people can check out there on the website.

Speaker 2: 47:54

Yeah, so the last two books that we've done. So Jody and I have worked together on all three books, but we delved into self-publishing in the last two. So the Hog Book and the turkey book. Again, you know it's very similar to the reasons why you know I've done Peternal project is, you know, creative control, editorial control, censorship, things like that and just being able to present exactly what we feel like we need to in the manner that we want to, and so that's what those books are about. A very similar ethos going into that and, you know, just bootstrapped. You know those books too. You know we started the Ogbook off with a Kickstarter program and that enabled us to fund the first printing of it by pre-selling basically all of those copies, and then the sale of those first couple rounds of printings enabled us to create, produce and distribute the turkey book so very.

Speaker 2: 48:58

I love that organically. It's just there's no other influences or entities out there. There's no publisher telling us this, there's no, some, no person with money controlling that output at all, and so they're very independent books and we're very proud of them and I love making books. It's so much fun. Our creative team behind the books myself, jody the photographer, sam Averitt, the other photographer on the Turkey book, blair Richardson, who's the designer of both of them, you know just working with all of them. And then Sam, the editor, slash indexer, paula, the other editor, you know, like just, it's a tiny little team, but working with such capable people it really kind of inspires me to probably make. You know, I'll probably just continue to, uh, make books, write books, um, even if it's not completely necessary, just because the process of working with such great people is so rewarding.

Speaker 1: 50:03

No, it, it. I love that man. I think that's so true. I remember when I was doing a publishing uh of one of my books you know, 20 years ago now um, trying to go to other publishers and then realizing let's just do it ourself, and then kind of putting every funds into the next thing, and that creative control was amazing. I needed more of a team around, cause I didn't do the best editing job, but it was a fun thing to be able to kind of put something out the way you want it.

Speaker 1: 50:28

Editing job, but it was a fun thing to be able to kind of put something out the way you want it and that, that, that authentic way and not having to, you know, edit the stuff that you're doing with the project, being able to have full creative control and be able to put out your word and your message and, you know, your art as it is, as I think, is just supremely important. And, uh, you know, I just wanted to. Hats off to that man. You've got some great achievements from all these amazing products and the project is phenomenal For those who are looking to go ahead and check out these you know, websites and, you know, start making some orders and get involved with the project today. Why don't you go ahead and just give us the URLs and kind of you know some of the socials real quick, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:25

So the Peternal project, that's P-E-D-E-R-N-A-L. Again, that means the Spanish word for Flint Peternal Project, which is I there. There will be links to the other things the wild books, where you can purchase the hog book and the turkey book. A field is available through any online platform, including the big one. Also at the restaurant at daidui, my restaurant, you can buy all of those books there. A meat eater also carries the hog book and the turkey book in their online store and here and there there's some other wholesale or other retail outlets for those books.

Speaker 2: 51:58

Here in town, local pastures just started picking them up and Archer Country also is a great place to go buy a copy, uh, retail if you want, and they're signed up there, uh, but yeah, you can.

Speaker 2: 52:11

You can find out all that stuff, uh. And, like I said, you know, peternal project is uh at four chapters in right now hog, part one, dove, blue crab and turkey. Uh, with more to come, I promise more really cool stuff and we we're going to go all over the place. We might delve into gardening, we might delve into, you know, some some more esoteric, just organizational topics, lots and lots of butchery to come. We're really going to lock it down and focus on those educational technical skills, because I think that that's really, you know, one of the great things about it being an ongoing thing is that I get feedback and then I can say, yes, we're going to, okay, heard that we're going to continue to do that, and so I really think that it's those those butchery and foundational cooking things that we're really going to try to cover more in that and tackle topics that I think that you know there's a little there's a lack of information about, so there'll be a lot more coming.

Speaker 1: 53:16

Man, I'm excited. I'll have all the links below in the show notes. Again, I'm super excited for you, man. Such a great project and all the things you're doing, man, congratulations on it all. Before we leave, is there anything that you'd like to kind of share as parting words to maybe some of your, you know, friends, family, supporters along the way, who have kind of been there for you and continue to, you know, support you in all these amazing endeavors that you got going on?

Speaker 2: 53:42

Yeah, definitely. I mean Victoria, my fiance. She's so much smarter than I am in each and every way, and so I was like she, yeah, she is just the backbone of all this stuff. It's like often I'm just yelling from the other room hey, I can't figure this out, and she's like just go to settings. You know, uh, it's, it's pretty incredible that I'm I'm very, very lucky'm, I'm very, very lucky, uh, to have her. And also my parents just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. Man, congrats to them. Got to host them at Daijue the other night. Uh, so that was pretty cool. Oh, nice For them. Uh, you know, it's great.

Speaker 2: 54:22

You know, I, I, I have to remind myself daily that I have an amazing job. I have to remind myself daily that I have an amazing job. I love what I do. You know, even dealing with the stuff at the restaurant. You know, the plumbing and the ceiling, it's really just the plumbing and the ceiling at the restaurant. That's what I do. You know like, oh, what's it like being a chef? I'm like we deal with the plumbing and the ceiling. So, um, uh, you know I do have a great job and sometimes I'm out in the field. You know, I do have a great job and sometimes I'm out in the field, you know, looking at a beautiful sunrise, and I realized that I'm at work and I should never forget that and that that inspires me to, you know, do something you know for, and it's like I really should take that momentum and that energy and that, that, uh, that that privilege, and turn that into something educational and useful for others.

Speaker 1: 55:18

And well said, you do that. And, uh, you know it pays dividends in so many ways, man. It's so fulfilling for you personally, I'm sure. And then you know all these other folks who get to follow along and learn from the journey and be entertained and, you know, be able to figure out what the next creative and fun meal is going to be. And I just again want to say thanks and congrats on all your success. Jesse, it's an honor to know you, privilege to have you on the podcast again and looking forward to next time already.

Speaker 2: 55:44

You know what, and thank you, george too, because you've been the most incredible supporter. I really appreciate you, so I always love talking to your excellent host and it's always a fun conversation, so thank you, cheers man.

Speaker 1: 55:57

That means a lot coming from you. Thank you so much. Well, until next time, jesse, take care Everyone. Go check out the show notes below. Make sure you're liking subscribing, following the pages and