Speaker 1: 0:15

Hey everybody, welcome back to the son of a blitz podcast. I'm your host, George blitz. Today I had a phenomenal conversation with a wonderful musician by the name of Alon Rubin. You guys might know him as the drummer for Nine Inch Nails, angels and Airwaves. He's also been the drummer before with Paramore, played with Beck, danny Elfman, no Effects, lost Prophets, freak of Nature so many different amazing bands. You know this guy was touring Warped Tour the band's Warped Tour when he was in eighth grade.

Speaker 1: 0:43

We talk about him kind of his early years of music and how he kind of just started continuing to progress. You know he joined Nine Inch Nails at 20 years old. He's been playing with them for 16 years now and you know he was actually inducted as the youngest member ever into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he was the youngest ever to perform at Woodstock holds a Guinness Book of World Records for that. I think he was 11 years old, maybe 12. Anyway, we talk a little bit about his history in music and kind of, you know, giving a little bit of background to his styles. We talk about him being a multi-instrumentalist and playing all sorts of different things, you know, and we talk about how as a drummer. He learned to play by ear and then kind of built from there and was reading books and watching videos and this kind of came full circle, because now today he's releasing his very first drum instrumental or instructional book I should say, called Start Somewhere, to Go Somewhere how to Creatively Expand on Simplicity. And this is put together through Hudson Music, which has done so many different amazing books for those who are, uh, you know, familiar as taking lessons and such and reading music from these books and learning things. But what's really neat too and it's different than, uh, I grew up where now you're going in and you're getting like this ebook from Hudson music and there's a little play button there so you can actually hit that play button and you can hear him, uh, elon, performing that particular section of the book.

Speaker 1: 2:08

He has like 40 different things that are recorded, or maybe even more, uh, throughout four sections. One's just kind of like a warmup on the practice pad, some of the things he does before these shows and then brings it onto the kit and really they're like a lot of basic, uh, basic blocks. I think you can build from right, starting out simple and then how you can take this thing on from the practice pad into doing a fill, and then you hear it and it's like, oh, that's how you can incorporate this with the Toms and this fill, and so it's just a really cool book all around. I really, you know, love how it was recorded. It sounds so good. Uh, it's very uh something that can, from the very beginner, can pick this up into someone who's kind of an expert level and you're going to be able to learn something.

Speaker 1: 2:45

So, you guys, if you have any interest in drumming, if you're a drummer and you want to take things to the next level, go pick up a copy of Start Somewhere to Go Somewhere from Hudson Music, alon Rubin. Thank you so much for joining me today. Appreciate you sharing your talents and teaching other peoples and being a mentor to them as well as you are. And, yeah, you guys, go check out his YouTube page. Check out those live drumming clips. Man, he's got some amazing stuff from all the bands he's played with and there's also a lot of cool stuff about that. He's going to be putting out little shorts and reels and a little intro video to this book that kind of explained a little bit further. So do that. Follow him on Instagram. I'll have all the links below in the show notes and you guys, thanks for tuning in the podcast.

Speaker 1: 3:25

And, without further ado, here is my interview with Elan Rubin of Nine Inch Nails, angels and Airwaves, as well as his own solo projects that he's done, new Regime, and now his own self-titled music under his name, which singles are coming out soon. So make sure you go and follow those pages as well. And thanks for tuning in, guys. Hope you guys enjoy this one, those pages as well. And thanks for tuning in, guys. Hope you guys enjoy this one. I surely did Take care.

Speaker 1: 3:47

Hey, alon, how are you doing today? Man? I'm doing well. How are you? Fantastic man. You got a big week coming up. On Friday your first book drops. I'm super excited to talk about that. Start somewhere to go somewhere. But first I want to give listeners a little bit of background on you know, your expertise level and how you got started in this musical scene. And if we can just kind of go back to the day you found that drum kit and your, your dad's drum kit in the garage and maybe kind of you know, walk us through a little bit of your history there and we'll go into the book in a bit.

Speaker 2: 4:13

Sure thing. So my dad was a drummer when he was in middle school, high school, and he held onto his drums. Now he did the responsible thing and went to college and got his master's in business and provided for the family he created. But we had the drums in the garage. They were beautiful Ludwig 1968, silver Sparkles, pretty much the Ginger Baker drum set, but one bass drum, and really I don't think I would have noticed them had my brothers not noticed them.

Speaker 2: 4:46

First they had started playing and I'm the youngest of three, so perhaps it was a bit of brotherly competition, maybe I was just fascinated. I mean, this is almost pre-memory, I mean I don't really remember life before being able to play. But something piqued my interest, interest and he noticed I had a semblance of rhythm, that I wasn't just making noise, and he taught me a little thing and then another little thing, and once I kind of understood the way it worked meaning I can hear something and I can play it back then the obsession truly started and it was a matter of being able to listen to music that my dad was presenting to me and learning things that I enjoyed. And then it became the lifelong obsession that is still taking hold of me to this day.

Speaker 1: 5:33

Well, you started there playing with your brothers too, didn't you? With the Freak of Nature FON band, and that was a Danny and Aaron right.

Speaker 2: 5:39

Isn't that how you?

Speaker 1: 5:40

guys started touring around, so how?

Speaker 2: 5:42

old were you then? That was their high school band, so I was eight or nine at the oldest when that started nine at the oldest, and it was an interesting experience because the age difference between Aaron and myself is eight years, so being a nine-year-old, and they're seniors in high school basically. So that was that that. But yeah, that seems like a a lifetime or three ago. But yeah, that that got me started in terms of playing live and whatnot. But yeah, I've probably blocked most of it out, to be honest with you, but good formative years now you also, of course, there's.

Speaker 1: 6:21

You have a guinness book of world records. I don't know, maybe you have multiple, but I know that this one here you played. You guys were the opening band. Was that FON that played at Woodstock, or was it a different group that played?

Speaker 2: 6:31

You guys opened up 99, right, that was it, it was what's it called. The band won some kind of this was in the very early I wouldn't even call it streaming, but just mp3.com, that kind of thing and some kind of competition was won and that was the prize. But you know, it sounds a little more exciting than it was, and I'm not saying it wasn't exciting at the time. It's just you picture Woodstock as this colossal event with these two giant main stages, and they were opposite ends of this giant airfield at least it's the way I remember it and there was this sort of emerging artist stage in a hangar in between the two. So it was a, it was a big, big thing at the time, and I don't I don't want you to feel awkward when I say this, but it's something that's baffling to me when it gets brought up, because I'm like, oh yeah, that happened. But you know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:30

Yeah Well, I mean, I've gone to played many festivals myself, my band, and there's been times like, oh, you played that band, these big ones played. And I'm like, yeah, we were in that side tent over there behind the porta potties and stuff, you know, and that's like kind of getting your first going. But that's really cool to like be able to say that you played it. Isn't that the one where all hell broke loose later? Yes, so you guys started all of that apparently. Huh Apparently.

Speaker 2: 7:54

Yeah, nothing but bad luck.

Speaker 1: 7:57

Oh man, well, that that's. That's pretty fun to be able to, you know, have these experiences of playing and going around. I know that you've played with so many bands since you know. I was just kind of curious as far as your trajectory of these groups. I know you obviously started playing with Nine Inch Nails in 2009. I think you auditioned in 08. And I you know, after he saw you, I think it was like the Reading Festival playing with another band, what was the other group that you played with? That kind of got you in his eyes and in his thoughts for giving you a call when Josh left.

Speaker 2: 8:33

Well, I'll tell you what that is a band that took a turn for the absolute worst in a situation that ended the band and a guy is serving many decades in prison, and fortunately I was long gone before that happened. But the band was quite a stepping stone because we were playing before Nine Inch Nails at Reading and Leeds in 2007. And a very dear friend of mine who was teching for Nine Inch Nails at the time recommended to Trent that he watch me play. And you know, having known Trent for 15 years now, I'm shocked that he actually did it, because that band certainly wouldn't have been his cup of tea and, quite frankly, it wasn't mine either. But it was a great opportunity and led to a phenomenal opportunity. And there you have it.

Speaker 1: 9:19

Well, and then you've also played with Angels and Airwaves, and I mean there's, the list goes on.

Speaker 2: 9:29

You've sat in with no effects when you're doing the, the vans warp tour, beck, danny elfman, all these different groups, man you played with with some of the the top tier up there and, I have to say, very well researched you're, you're, you're finding skeletons and corners that I didn't even know I forgot were there. But yeah, and I joke, but yeah, I mean, warp tour was my sort of first proper touring experience and that was the summer of eighth grade.

Speaker 2: 9:51

You know that was my that was my first like three weeks consistently out. Uh, my, my parents were with me at the time, but yeah, I was already a touring musician by the time I had started high school. So, funny enough, fast forwarding a little bit, the second band that I was in provided a lot of sort of life lessons, and career lessons in particular, because that was an exciting opportunity. It was a band that had been signed to a major label but dropped seven and a half months later. So that dose of reality kicked in quickly and by the time I was 16, I already had my first sort of midlife crisis. And what am I going to do? I've already been playing music for half my life and it's not panning out the way I thought. But yeah, I was touring so much that I had to check into homeschooling. I mean, the thing I'm probably most grateful for is how supportive my parents were and are to this day, but they knew I had to pursue this path, that I had a talent that warranted me sort of leading a different life, but they insisted on me getting straight A's and they wouldn't allow me to, for example, get a GED and test out of school. They're like we will find you an accredited school for child actors or kids who basically already are on a career path in their early to mid teens. But you're going to do it that way or you're not going to do it. So they found that for me. I did it and I was touring pretty.

Speaker 2: 11:26

I mean, things are a bit of a blur, as I've already said numerous times, but between the ages of 14 and 16, I was, I would say, gone on the road more than I was at home, definitely between 15 and 16. And then from there I was, I felt, like a seasoned veteran, and then 17, 18 and 19, touring fairly nonstop and I joined Nine Inch Nails at 20. So that, as you can imagine, had a great sort of busy touring schedule, but it was also very piecemeal in a way. So Nine Inch Nails at the time we hadn't done this in a while, but Nine Inch Nails at the time would tour very consistently. There would be a couple of years off, two or three years off, and then, for example, 2013-14,.

Speaker 2: 12:11

That was the last sort of I say this in quotes, but proper touring cycle where there were dates stretching out about a year and a half. Everything since then has kind of been great, but it's been three weeks here, a few weeks off, three weeks here, a few weeks off, and then, before you know it, you've gotten into that hiatus period again, and that hiatus period is what led to me being able to join Angels and Airwaves, which was a fun opportunity and they're very dear friends of mine, but that was a band in San Diego. We had mutual friends. Obviously everybody knows who Tom is.

Speaker 1: 12:49

He's kind of in the news again right now. Yes, all the drone stuff, yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:55

So, yeah, it was a San Diego mutual friend was like Tom needs a drummer. Tom, this guy's from you, guys should talk. And then there you go. So that happened in about 2011 or 12. And yeah, it's very strange that, as a musician who has pretty much based his entire life around music, I just see periods of my life in the context of tours and albums and whatnot. So I kind of see the way all those pieces fit in terms of what I've done, which is probably strange, but I'm sure it's not all that uncommon.

Speaker 1: 13:30

Yeah, no, I mean, there's periods of my life that I know that I can define them from these bands that I was into, or even when I was touring of, like what albums we were doing, like I, I can understand that, um, and in in that realm.

Speaker 1: 13:41

I was just kind of thinking, you know, in this kind of a personal question on that side, like, did you have some peers that were maybe going through I can't say something exactly the same, cause they probably weren't doing the same thing as far as you know, eighth grade warp tour, but did you have some folks that had some kind of? Did you have a kind of a sounding board and some people that you had around you, aside from your family, that you could kind of relate to and work with? And because it might seem like you're kind of out on your own and on your boat and see, with your experience kind of growing up, and you know, I don't know if musical prodigy is something that you know has been thrown around, but the idea of, like you, being a professional musician at a very young age and I was just kind of curious what that was like for you.

Speaker 2: 14:26

Now, are you referring to people who may have given me life advice or career advice, that sort of thing, or just people I grew up with?

Speaker 1: 14:31

Well, I guess like the idea of like, yeah, your your social circle around you, if you're out there touring all the time and you're doing that in there may be bands that are older than you and you know, maybe on the warp tour there may be some younger groups and maybe some I don't know if there was a lot of you know more teenage bands at that time, age-wise. But I was just curious did you find kind of a peer group that was around your age that you could relate to, or were you usually hanging out with people that were older than you by just default?

Speaker 2: 14:57

Up until very recently, I never had a peer group my age and that was just because I took to music quickly and I don't mean this to sound awful or pretentious or whatever you want to call it arrogant, but I didn't have any kids at school who played music. Well, I had already become a fairly good musician and music's one of those things. I mean it's like tennis, for example. If you play tennis with somebody who doesn't play well or isn't at your level and vice versa, it's not fun for the other person. Sure, and music is one of those things People think. You know, jamming is fun and it can be if everyone's good and enjoying themselves or if everyone's in the same place. But if you have a really good player here and the drummer can't keep up or vice versa and you have a terrible, whatever it may be, it's just not fun unless everyone is generally at the same place. And I didn't have that Now in terms of other people along the way.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Now that I think about it, it's funny because you always meet the one person, or the select few, who have a little more experience than you do, and then you kind of match their experience and then you meet the person who's got more experience than you now and it kind of always goes up.

Speaker 2: 16:28

So it's funny you, for example, your local band, you're just trying to get shows. Then you start getting shows. Then you, for example, join another band and this band's actually toured before, and then this band's toured, but people actually go to the shows and then it kind of just builds and builds and builds and it continues that way once you're at the professional level, because obviously, just like anything, there's a a huge variety of successes out there and I mean fortunately, I feel like at 20 years old I joined a legendary band and that was great and it was by far the best thing that I had done. But you know, the band that I was with before was a colossal stepping stone for me, aside from the more local bands or the sort of domestic touring acts, that kind of thing. So you're always sort of leveling up and once you get to a certain level you kind of just make lateral moves, I suppose.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Well, when you're talking about like that idea of you know I guess we'll throw a name on it like mentorship, like were there some people who were significant that you could name out, that you kind of you were able to rise to that level of that mentorship and work, you know, and kind of cause I believe in, in, in this kind of will tie into the book there too, cause a lot of folks they're starting to play by ear, whether it's music and in drums, like I know that I played and then I ended up going and taking some lessons and there's some drum books and stuff that I would look at and everything.

Speaker 1: 17:56

But you know, it kind of that trajectory is a little bit different for everybody. But having some you know mentors or some people you can look up to in that space and you know, I don't know if this was a part of your relationship that was built with Tom, but I believe that there was a time that you and Travis Barker got together and that he did some work. I thought I read something somewhere about that, but I was curious about if there's people that were you know that you might name off, that you know helped you in whatever capacity it was and maybe how you might feel about what it is to have a mentor and and are you doing any mentoring now? So I know it's a lot of different questions, so run with it as you wish.

Speaker 2: 18:32

Well, I I wouldn't say a mentor per se. I mean, for example, you mentioned Travis and I can do that one out of the way quickly. But uh, this was even before this. This was, I think, Warped Tour 2000. Okay, so this was even we had done a week on it. This was the summer or two before my first three-week tour or whatnot.

Speaker 2: 18:55

But somebody who worked with Blink at the time saw me play and was impressed that he saw an 11-year-old kid playing the drums. Well, or at least you know well for an 11 year old, saw two um adults in the crowd and put it together. They were. My parents basically said hey, um, I work with blank. Would your son be interested in taking lessons from their drummer? He gives drum lessons and he's local. So that's literally how that happened and of course it was a great opportunity.

Speaker 2: 19:27

He was unique in the sense that he was a trained musician playing in music that does not require training. You know, generally pop, punk, right, and that was that. But you know, Travis and I never really had a a real kind of buddy-buddy relationship, Because you have to think, 11, 12, 13 years old, a guy in his mid-20s, what's that relationship going to be beyond all. Right, here's your drum lesson for the hour. I mean, we got along well. I thought he was a very nice guy and we would bump into each other every few years. And then, funny enough, I saw him the most I had ever seen him once I joined Angels and Airwaves Because Angels at that time Blink had gotten back together either for the first or the second time, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 20:14

It's hard to keep track of when a band breaks up that much, but I joke, but kind of yeah yeah, Anyway so then you kind of get into this odd place where, okay, both adults at this, this point, but I've known the guy since I was 11 years old, so it's a very sort of odd thing. But that was purely nothing. Career, that was just okay. We're gonna read notation, I'm gonna go through rudiments, we're gonna go through stuff with the drum set, and that was that. But it was a very good experience. Now I can't really say I had any, any mentorship in terms of music career stuff. Uh, just because and I could be misspeaking, nothing's coming to mind right now and and the reason why I'm saying this is because I always felt sort of disappointed up until nine-ish nails. Now that does. I don't mean to sound that I was disappointed because, oh, I I'm just not touring as well as I'd like and I'm a 16 year old. That that's not what I mean, it's just I always felt like I was. I learned more what not to do with the people I was playing with, and that is just as valuable. It's probably what got you to where you were.

Speaker 2: 21:26

At that point, when I finally, or when I joined nine inch nails, I felt like, finally, I'm in a band with real musicians who take this seriously and that's why they're so good. Live being in a room with trent and seeing the way he conducted rehearsals and knew that he expected everyone to be on their game and everyone was there prepared and had their notebooks and was figuring out. Okay, we got to work on this, we got to fix that. I'll get to this some other time. This will be prepared before tomorrow's rehearsal. It's just very, very regimented and I don't mean that in a way that feels dry. It was just structured, is what I'm trying to say. It wasn't just dicking around for a couple of hours and now, why don't we get out of here?

Speaker 2: 22:13

That I had done for 12 years or whatever, and I always felt that even climbing that ladder, like I said, you get to the kind of next thing that's a little bit bigger and bigger and bigger. I just felt that anybody I had worked with who had a semblance of success took it for granted and had a piss poor work ethic, which infuriated me personally. I hate when people are unappreciative. So Nine Inch Nails was, although it was by far the biggest thing I had done. There was a huge level of comfort there because there was an expectation and an appreciation. You know, this is the first guy it's funny the the most successful gum speaking of Trenton here, of course but the most successful guy I'd ever played with was the most appreciative of my skills. He wasn't threatened by me in any way.

Speaker 2: 23:04

A lot of people as I was growing up were threatened by me, especially as a guy who. Lot of people as I was growing up were threatened by me, especially as a guy who could play the drums well, but could also play guitar and bass and piano and whatnot. He was like okay, if you're not playing drums, I need you to play piano on this. And that was awesome and that's one of the things that has remained so unique about the Nine Inch Nails experience for me is that well, yes, it's primarily drumming. I love the fact that I get to get off the drums and play bass on a few songs or piano in between sections of a song or whatever it may be. It's a lot of fun and the challenge is there, but, like I said, the appreciation in abilities as opposed to being threatened by them. That was the first time and it's kind of like the people who are secure in themselves in that way are appreciative in others A lot of insecure people out there.

Speaker 1: 23:57

Oh yeah, oh yeah, especially in bands, I mean, especially if you're multi-talented, they're like, oh man, he might take my spot if there's. But you had to lock down there. Well, you know, you talk about playing other instruments and obviously you've had some solar records and you've kind of had it under two different names. You had the new regime and then you had it under your own name too and I was, you know, want to dive into that, because you play all the instruments and on on all these tracks and I'm not sure if you had any guests come in for anything. But I mean, it's been your stuff there that you've written and I was curious is this something that you would do in your own home studio? Would you go out and have anybody else record it and kind of help you with that? Or is this kind of your baby from you know cradle to grave on these?

Speaker 2: 24:38

It is entirely me Uh, every note that you hear is me, in fact my uh oldest brother, aaron, who uh, engineered, mixed and co-produced all that stuff and then went on to do the Angels stuff when I joined and he's kind of become Tom's right-hand man in the studio for everything that he does. But he, obviously, without him I wouldn't have been able to do it, because he had a curiosity and an interest in recording. I just wanted to play and write, so for him it was fun and we played in bands together. But he I feel like there are two types of musicians the ones who have a tech savviness and those who couldn't care less. And he really got into that. And this. I feel like this was probably at the time where digital multi-track recorders were kind of being replaced by smaller audio interfaces and still very primitive. But I'm talking. I mean, how, how familiar are you with this stuff?

Speaker 1: 25:46

Oh yeah, no, I remember when I got my first 828 and it was just mind-boggling to be able to have something like that. I think I was like 2001, but going into studios where you had these massive multi-tracks and now you can fit everything in your back pocket. For those who are listening that might not understand exactly what we're talking about audio interface, being able to plug something in, go into your computer, record there digitally, used Digitally. It used to not be that way. You just had record on tapes, tracks, dats. I mean it was. Yeah, it goes back.

Speaker 2: 26:13

So and I had experience recording on that stuff as a drummer, but never for my own sort of creative output. But my dad I mean I still remember the model number but my dad got him this Yamaha recorder called the AW4416 and had a built in CD drive. But I think that's where he kind of at least learned the very basics of signal flow and getting a recorded signal down. But, as I said, this was at a time when those things were becoming phased out and you can get a Digio one or Digio 2 and you can have Pro Tools on your computer. And as that progressed and I thought, okay, I play these instruments, I'm going to force myself to sing so that I don't have to depend on anybody, and he said, okay, well, if you buy a couple of pieces of gear, I can record it for you. So we kind of had a hodgepodge of we didn't use that recorder as a recorder but we could use the preamps in it to run into pro tools.

Speaker 2: 27:16

And at the time I bought two vintek x73s or like neve 1073 clones and two distressors, and these are pieces of gear we have to this day. But I bought these in three clones and two distressors and these are pieces of gear we have to this day, but I bought these in maybe 07 or 08 I somewhere around there and my first 10 songs that are recorded are the first new regime album called coup and uh. Things progressed from there and we both got better. He is a engineer, mixer, me as a writer, singer, so on and so forth, but everything you hear there throughout the new regime catalog is all me. In fact, the one time Aaron tried to record a tambourine cause he's like I think this would be good here, I'm like it is, but I'm going to rerecord it just because it's some weird OCD.

Speaker 1: 28:04

Yeah, well, if you've done 99.9%, you got to do that. I'll doCD.

Speaker 2: 28:08

Yeah. Well if you've done 99.9%. You got to do that, I'll do it.

Speaker 1: 28:09

Exactly Three tambourine hit. That's gotta be me, man, it's gotta be me.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Only I can hit the tambourine that way now. But but yeah, and I'm. I am, I have to say, very proud of all of the new regime stuff. The thing, the reason why I started releasing music under my own name fairly recently this was in the pandemic was because, first of all, the pandemic obviously knocked everybody down, many pegs, especially touring musicians, and so much of my life had been touring as a drummer and then in the sort of off season, so to speak, that's when I would have time to write and record the new regime stuff. So I feel like I was never able to give the new regime the time that it deserved, even though I tried and I toured a lot and I put a lot into it. I felt like I hadn't achieved with it what I'd wanted to in the in the 10 or so years it had been around at the time, which was shocking to me. I'm like is this considered old now? Is it not old? It's not where I wanted to be.

Speaker 2: 29:13

So basically, when the pandemic hit, I was on tour with the new regime. I had just put out my last album called heart, mind, body and soul, and we were supporting silversun pickups at the time and pulled up to a venue and realized that nobody was loading in and it's like, well, the country's shutting down, everyone go home and maybe we'll be back by July. This was how early on that was. But in realizing that it wasn't going to be a couple of weeks and that nobody actually knew what they were talking about, I had a couple of decisions to make. I just had this gut feeling of like, okay, if this is one year, let alone two or more, I didn't want to spend all that time doing nothing, so to speak, just to pick up where I left off before COVID. So I thought okay, that's it for the new regime. I'm obviously still going to write and record my own music, but doing it under my own name felt like a fresh start and the music is somewhat different, even though it's still me.

Speaker 2: 30:19

But I also had this epiphany because a couple of years or the year before the pandemic, the new regime was supporting angels and airwaves and I would play our 45 minute set or whatever it was, and I would go, take off my jacket and get back on stage 20 minutes later to play an angel set. And I try to be very conscious about not getting spoiled, right. So just because I'm in the headlining band, who people are actually there to see, doesn't mean I should conduct myself as the support act any differently. So I would finish the angels set and go to the new regime merch booth, then hang around there and the amount of people who either said to me you look like the singer in the new regime or you look like the drummer in Angels and Airwaves, I thought, oh my God, this is a disconnect that I did not think could be this bad and I don't blame the people for that, but I just thought there's a disservice I've been doing to myself here for 10 years or whatever it was.

Speaker 2: 31:29

So all of these experiences and emotions at the time led me to say, okay, I'm going to do a fresh start and there's going to be no mystery as to what's going on here. And I suppose I enjoyed the sort of cloak of a band, of a band I mean. For example, nine Inch Nails was a I wouldn't say an inspiration at the time in terms of, yes, nine Inch Nails may have started more of a band, but everybody knows that Nine Inch Nails is Trent Reznor. Right, I did. That resonated with me quite a bit and I liked presenting it as a band rather than here's me solo. But after having done it for quite a while and have been having been comfortable with it, I thought OK, I've got nothing to hide here, and it's me.

Speaker 1: 32:17

Well, and you've had, you've had. Do you have plans to have any releases here in the near future? Is there some new music that's on the way? I know you've done some albums and you got some singles you put out. What is what's?

Speaker 2: 32:27

on the horizon. I know you've done some albums and you got some, you know singles. You put out what is, uh, what's on the horizon there. So I'll tell you what I I'm. I mean, I literally have the session up right now for a song that I'm working on, but I will have three songs that are unreleased. They're in the can, ready to go, I should say, and one of the things that I did with releasing under my own name is, even though I am an album lover and that's how I grew up taking in music I kind of like this idea of releasing one song at a time and nothing has to make sense in comparison to what comes before or after it, and I didn't enjoy that.

Speaker 2: 33:04

But I feel like once these three songs are out, I will have done 12 of these singles and I do kind of miss the longer format. Everything has its pros and cons because it's just as much effort spread over quite a lengthy amount of time, and the thing that I hated is that I would work and spend so much time and attention to an album and then, once it's out, it's old news the following week and I was sick of feeling that what I just said, that there's just a lot of preparation that needs to take place and unfortunately it's not as simple as here's my new album. I hope you enjoy it, because 8 billion other people are doing the exact same thing. I mean, there's such a sad statistic. I read it the other day saying that more music comes out in one day than the entirety of 1989.

Speaker 1: 34:10

What.

Speaker 2: 34:10

Yeah, yeah. And on the one hand you could think, oh, that's great, Everyone can do it. But you know, not everyone's good at what they do. Yeah, not everyone should. You're fighting to get through the same thing. Now, that is what it is and I'm not saying any of that should change. But it's a difficult space to navigate, especially if you're not one of the one of the bigger bands.

Speaker 1: 34:38

Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Well is it is your goal to hopefully get some tracks out there and then tour and then, if so, what does that look like for all the people who would need to fill in those replacements of those sounds? Do you have kind of like a, a group that becomes the backing band that you've worked with, or that they're always like yeah, give me a call, I'm ready to do this, or how does that look like for you as far as moving out on the road?

Speaker 2: 35:00

I mean, I don't have anybody waiting for me for that call, but I do have a good stable of talented friends who I could call, who would hopefully be interested in this time, and I would love to do it.

Speaker 2: 35:13

It's just, once again, I can't seem to avoid the conundrum of love to do it. It's just, once again, I can't seem to avoid the conundrum of and this is, of course, a good problem to have, but I've got my life as a drummer and I've got my life as a solo artist and I'm not necessarily in complete control of either in terms of scheduling. So everything becomes this sort of. I feel like, uh, like a kid with a shapelet you're trying to get everything to fit into the, into the, into the right shape, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You got to figure out how am I going to do everything that I want to do? And then I don't know if it's just getting a little bit older, but I fully subscribe to this phenomenon that time becomes faster, it does and it vanishes, and I understand why, but it is terrifying. I'm thoroughly depressed that December I mean that 2025 is around the corner.

Speaker 1: 36:03

Now also moving forward with another project here, which might even bring the timeline even faster. You're an author now, man. On Friday you're dropping your debut book here and I'd love for you to talk to me a little bit about that. It's 184 pages, spiral bound, and it has audio examples. I mean it's a really cool concept. It's different than when I grew up and you'd get a book and you'd just look at it. It's, you know, different than when I grew up and you get a book and you just look at it, and now you can be able to listen to something and get the really good reference on what it should sound like, and then obviously, it's kind of like building blocks that people can go with from that. And I was just curious how did this come about? Is this something that you've had in mind for a little while? I know that you love reading, that you're an intellectual, so the idea of you is that is that throwing out loosely?

Speaker 2: 36:59

I read it in an article, but the idea that you would like uh, you kind of had it I would love to be referred to as an intellectual. That's great.

Speaker 1: 37:03

There you go. You're like hey, everyone listen Well.

Speaker 2: 37:07

I'll tell you what I had always and when I say always, I mean going back 20 years at least wanted to eventually put out a drum book, and there were many aborted phases of me starting to get notes on paper, and then I would get distracted by something else that I was doing, and then I'll do it next year, or, oh, it'd be really great if I put it around this time, because I'm doing that and they could sort of cross-pollinate in terms of marketing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And for one reason or another, it never happened. And then I got to a point where I'm like holy shit, I'm 35. And my wife was pregnant. So I thought, okay, my time is going to take a big hit here, and time is, you know, aside from my family, of course is the most precious thing to me. Yeah, and I just thought, okay, that's it, I'm 35. I need to. I need to have this book done, written, and it needs to be put out by next year. And if I don't do this, I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to. Sure, don't do this, I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to. And I just I sat down and I did it and it was a. It was quite an undertaking, but it was a very satisfying experience that I'm very proud of.

Speaker 2: 38:31

And I am a lover of books, not just music books. I love books. I don't think there's anything better looking than a bookshelf full of books, and I love to read. I am a largely self-taught musician. I mean, I'm entirely self-taught as a guitar player, bass player, pianist, drumming. I started somewhat self-taught. Obviously, my dad got me started and he took me as far as he could. I learned a ton by myself and then I started getting teachers who taught me notation and so on and so forth. But everything that I picked up I would love getting a book and when it clicked that I could teach myself whatever I wanted, as long as I have a book that would show me how to do it. And that was a great experience, and I didn't realize that it was fairly atypical at the time. You know, young people don't generally like books. A lot of old people don't like books either, but I always loved them and so it was something that I wanted to do, and when I finally got around doing it, there are many hurdles and I'm sure I mean you know all about this. You've put out books yourself. Who's going to publish it? Does anybody want to publish it? How's this going to work? And you can really get in your own way rather than just getting everything down on paper or on the computer. In my instance, I actually wrote the entire thing by hand and then input it into a computer and now I use that kind of treated that as a as a stage of editing.

Speaker 2: 40:10

Yeah, and then I sent all that to the eventual publisher, which was Hudson music, and that was a great sort of full circle moment for me, because I grew up having a lot of the stuff that they published and a lot of the sort of drum VHS tapes that they put out and the sort of things you'd see behind the registry guitar center. I had a lot of those growing up. So a friend of mine said hey, you should talk to maybe my um, my manager. She said, hey, you should talk to Mark Giuliani, he's got a book. I'm like you're right, he does, and got in touch with him. Lovely guy, we've met a few times in the past but had many mutual friends. He's like let me put you in touch with my guy, and this was a guy named Joe Bergamini at Hudson music and he was interested. And once you kind of have that enthusiasm behind you and you've made the commitment, there's no turning back, and I liked that pressure.

Speaker 2: 41:06

But the undertaking was quite thorough. I did not think in any way, shape or form would this book be over 100 pages, let alone 184. And what's funny is that, at least in my scenario of kind of pitching this idea, I wrote a sample chapter or a sample section and a mock table of contents and the guys at Hudson looked at it and they're like, look, all this seems really good, but you have at least two books worth of stuff here, maybe three. So why don't you just turn the first four chapters into this book and then we'll see what goes on beyond that? And I said, okay, great, that'll make it a whole hell of a lot easier. And it didn't, because it really was a lot of material. So I turned those four chapters into four sections that were then subdivided into a total of 40 chapters. And there you have it.

Speaker 2: 42:02

So the book's called Start Somewhere to Go Somewhere, and that was a sort of phrase from a friend I've had for a long time, a great drummer Actually. You know, his name is Mike Fasano, really good friend, great drum tech on. I mean great drum tech and great drummer. But we met working together when I was about 13, 14. He came in and got the drum sounds for the album and he did this for so many great drum recordings and I suppose he could fill that sort of mentorship role, because my parents and I would ask him okay, how do how do we get to the next level? How does he, how does he do more sessions? And he would always say hey, you're young man, don't worry about it, just keep doing what you're doing. You got to start somewhere, to go somewhere.

Speaker 2: 42:45

And when I was smashing my head against the desk trying to come up with a title for the book, somehow that just came back to me and I used it and I was like I, I owe you, I've got a debt of gratitude. He's like what are you talking about? And I was like here's what I named my book and ideas, because everything comes from something simpler and not everything needs to be complicated. What's most important is what you can get out of anything. Obviously, in the instance of drums, okay, here's a rudiment. What can you actually do with it other than playing it on a snare drum or a practice pad.

Speaker 2: 43:38

You can use it for fills, you can use it for solo material, but here are ways in which the applicability of them is very apparent. For whatever that's worth, I will take something, I will become comfortable with it, I'll go okay, what if I add a note here, or what if I move this note over there? Now it becomes something a little more interesting. Okay, now, I'm comfortable with that. How do I make that more interesting? And you kind of displace notes or distribute notes across different drums, and you come up with these things that all sound very different but are based upon this very simple building block. And I hope that that shows people, when they stumble across something simple, where they're not thinking, okay, this is simple, they think what can I do with this, or what can I make out of this? They think what can I do with this, or what can I make out of this? And I think that's a very important way to look at things, especially musically, because complexity does not always bring something fun to the table.

Speaker 1: 44:50

Sometimes you have to have that kiss method right.

Speaker 1: 44:51

Keep it simple stupid, but you can strip that down and you can build from that. And that's where I like you talk about, like in section one, like at the practice pad. You know it's things that you kind of talk about, that you even do like while you're warming up for shows, right, and it's some things to kind of get you warmed up and you can take it to at the drums and when you're listening to these audio samples that come with the ebook or you know you can, when you go to Hudson and you purchase this, you can go ahead and it'll. You can download these audio clips and so the you're you're getting an example of what it sounds like in a slower format and then you have it later on is sped up. And there's also something it's like not just on the snare, it's like okay, hey, oh, that's how you can incorporate. You know the, the Tom's in the sound and it's. I love that idea.

Speaker 1: 45:34

When you talk about like building blocks, that's what it really feels like. There's things that you and you progress and you have so many different things. And then the sticking and I have to just mention this real quick too, because you're you're an open-handed drummer, right, like you started out, and if you wouldn't mind, just give me a little one minute version of that and then how it is that you prepared this book, where it's not just in that method. It can be all around, however you want to do your sticking. But if you wouldn't mind just mentioning that too, because I think it's a fascinating way, when I first saw you playing and then moving on to the other side of the kid, I was like wait, what's happening here?

Speaker 2: 46:05

Well, thanks. So it was a very naive discovery that my left hand was closer to the high hat. It's that simple. And my dad taught me the way he knew how to play, which was right hand on the hi-hat, over your hand, that's hitting the snare drum. And when he left me to practice something, which is what he would do he'd say, okay, work on that and come get me when you think you got it. And in that moment I was like this doesn't make any sense. It's silly. I could hit my hand by mistake. Why would I do that? This is closer and my hands are not in the way of each other. And that was that.

Speaker 2: 46:39

I came in to the house, I said, all right, dad, I got to come listen to it. I played the beat and he just he looked at it or at me and was seemingly confused because it sounded right, but it didn't look right. And I have no problem saying it didn't look right, because when I see open-handed drummers, I think that doesn't look right. Yeah, is he okay? Yeah, but that's left-handed drummers. That one's even weirder. I can't look at them. You know, it's funny is that I got to send a book to Dom Howard from Muse, who's a good friend of mine. He's the only proper lefty drummer that I know, so hopefully it works out for him.

Speaker 2: 47:21

But the discovery of playing open-handed, but already having sort of started right-handed, I had a ride cymbal to my right, I had a crash ride to my left. Some things came to me very naturally right-handed, Most things came to me more naturally left-handed or open-handed. And again, I should say, the only things I do left-handed are hit the hi-hat and write, and I write very terribly. It is completely illegible and I can blame that on being left-handed in that regard. But I thought, okay, well, I kind of need to be able to do most things both ways. It's not something I'm obsessive about, but generally when I'm on the high hand, I'm playing with my left, I'm on the right, I move to my right, and I thought, okay, this is another through line to the book that I think could be very useful. It could be a challenge to people who want to enhance their coordination or their strength on the weaker side. Or it could be a book for people who do play like me, and I've stumbled across a couple where they go.

Speaker 2: 48:27

I play open-handed, but I also kind of play right-hand. I'm like, well, this is perfect. So I think it ticks a lot of boxes in terms of who it's good for. I think it ticks a lot of boxes in terms of who it's good for and skill level, genre. I think all these things are relevant to this book, because there's nothing in there that's astronomically difficult, right, and there are things in there that are quite simple. Linear trajectory of slightly becoming more interesting and more syncopated and slightly more difficult, I think would pertain to a very wide range of drummers.

Speaker 1: 49:05

I think so, man. You kind of talk about different influences and interviews. You've talked about of styles of music, but this is something that it's like again. It's that basic block right First time drummer can pick this up, somebody who's very experienced can pick this up, and they're going to be able to have really cool practice things. Maybe they've done them before, maybe they haven't, but as far as the application thereof, it can go into any genre. Uh, I really did. You know, and it's, I think, coming back from when I was growing up.

Speaker 1: 49:33

You know I'm 45 now and you know I there we didn't have, you know, the internet to where you could just go and click play. When I was 11 years old, learning it's like and and hear how it would sound. You could maybe go get a VHS tape. But looking at drum notation, and I love the idea that now it's like I could read this in your book, I could go over there and play and like, okay, that's how that sounds to me.

Speaker 1: 49:53

If I'm stumbling up on something or I'm trying to do some inverted paradiddle and something is just different for me like okay, but I love the idea that someone and especially those who may read, uh or not be able to read music as well, but they can hear it. Well, you know so many different people. I can pick that song out, I can figure out that part, but they might not be able to read music, or vice versa. I love that you have examples of both. I feel it applies for everybody and I'm really excited for this to come out. You know this podcast will air on Friday, so today, guys, you can go and check that out. It's going to be over at Hudson Music and I highly suggest you go and pick it up.

Speaker 1: 50:26

I know that there's some autographed copies there too, so there's like 25 left or so it could be.

Speaker 2: 50:32

I haven't checked, to be honest with you, but I will say so. In terms of the recorded audio it is me playing. There are about 50 or so exercises that have the audio. Now, if you get the book in a physical copy, there's a download link there and you'll get your files. However, that works. But Hudson also has a great app and it's kind of like their iBooks, where you can go in and buy the books right then and there. But if you get the digital version of the book, you have the play button right in the book and you can listen to that.

Speaker 2: 51:02

So really the only barrier to entry is to be able to read, and it's not very complex stuff in terms of the reading. It's not like there isn't a single groove in the book. So everything is fairly linear. It's really an exploration on expanding upon rudiments at the drum set, really, and what can be done with them. So everything is very linear, and what I mean by that in a musical context is that rarely do two things hit at once, so you can really just follow these phrases and patterns.

Speaker 1: 51:50

And even if it's slow, you can do it and being able to hit that play button is really cool. So everyone, I kind of suggest that, as well as you know having a physical copy that you can kind of take with you too and you're maybe unplugged from the world and you're in your studio or whatever, practicing, and you know just kind of you know curious of where people can go to like not only just, you know, pick this up at Hudson Music, but to follow your journey and maybe what's coming next. No-transcript.

Speaker 2: 52:29

Well, fortunately, all of my social media stuff is just my name Ilan Rubin, i-l-a-n-r-u-b-i-n.

Speaker 2: 52:31

I am most active on Instagram. I am trying to do that better because it is 2024, not for long, but it is an important part of things, so that I've actually made an attempt to be a bit more active in that regard. But, yeah, I think Instagram is a good place and YouTube is something that I have kind of done on and off, you know, just depending on the time of course. But, for example, I mean I do have a video where I talk about the book a little more in depth, but some really fun drum camp stuff from Nine Inch Nails tours and Angels and Airwaves tours, some of my own music stuff where I kind of go into deep dives into the actual Pro tool sessions of songs that I've released in the last couple of years. But, yeah, fun stuff that I'm trying to to keep up with. But between all of that and then creating the stuff to begin with and it's quite an undertaking, but you're trying to I'm trying to make time bring it out of thin air, just summon it and slow it down too, right?

Speaker 1: 53:36

So that bring it out of thin air just summon it and slow it down too right?

Speaker 1: 53:38

Exactly that would be great. When you figure out that formula, share it with me. I would love to know. Well, you know and that kind of brings me to my final question there is you know, I know, obviously you're married, you have a kiddo, that is, you know, fairly young and you, being where you're at and you kind of you ticked off one of those boxes that you know.

Speaker 1: 53:56

I think that any person who really pursues music and loves touring and everything, and that's to you know, maybe one day get the, you know, the shining accolades of being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame right, and it's some, it's a dream in there too. And you were the youngest ever to be inducted, and I know that you're still a young man as far as that's concerned, I consider myself one too. Right, we'll, we'll, we'll consider that Right, absolutely Right. Yes, yes, I see the young whippersnappers that are, yeah, but you know, we're, we're still in in that, you know, maybe even haven't hit our prime yet, but the idea that, the idea of legacy, and I think it changes for a lot of people too when they have kids and what they think about and what they want to leave behind, as far as on a professional and on a personal setting.

Speaker 1: 54:43

And I was just curious do you think much about that? Is that an idea that is, you know, tied into what you do, cause I know that you're so professional about so many things that you enter? I don't think you ever half-ass anything from what it seems like what you get involved in, enter. I don't think you ever half-ass anything from what it seems like what you get involved in. And I was curious what do you think about? Is that imprint that you leave behind when each of those projects are done, or at the very end of your life? And, looking back on those things, what does that kind of idea of legacy look like to you?

Speaker 2: 55:10

That is a very good, deep and profound question. Now, I do think it's a tough one to answer because, I mean, when you think about legacy as an idea, I feel like it's hard to answer in a way that doesn't sound pretentious or arrogant. Okay, now, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be remembered, especially, you know, in a in a great way. Right now, I suppose all I can say in doing my best to not sound like that, I would, I would love to leave a legacy behind where people appreciate me the way I appreciate my heroes. Now, the thing that's odd to say about that is that my heroes are absolute legends. You know, yeah, I would love it if people looked at me the way they looked at, uh, you know the beatles and led zeppelin, queen, but that doesn't exist anymore, right, and it's a, it's a very. The world is constantly changing, okay, and it changed tremendously from when my heroes were around and it's changed tremendously in the last 10 years. So what legacy is and what it can be, I have no idea, because I perhaps could be on the cusp of that generation, so to speak. That goes oh, the, the kids music, the music kids are listening to these days. It's never going to stick around. I genuinely feel that way about a lot of it. But how the hell could I know? I could be colossally wrong and I probably will be right.

Speaker 2: 56:49

People said that about actual greatness, so maybe there's just a big disconnect and taste there knows. Let's chalk it up to that. Yeah, I just hope, uh, a good amount of people appreciate what I do and hopefully I've done something worth appreciating. Now in the, in the present, I feel like I don't want to say my, my focus is shifted because it's all tied into one another. But, as you said, being a, being a dad I'm, I also want to accomplish everything that I want to accomplish for his sake, because I want to be able to give him everything that he needs to pursue what he wants to pursue and to be able to succeed. I don't want to, I don't want to impede anything that he may want to do. Now. I feel like I've got some time. Right now he can't even talk yet, so but I I feel a giant ticking clock behind me at all times, and it's now ticking faster.

Speaker 1: 57:45

Yeah, no, it's a fuel, I think too, and when you look at that in your life too, it's like you know especially I see a lot of my friends that you know their parents, they're losing their parents and then it's all of a sudden they're the elder of the family and I think that keeps time creeps going quicker. But it I think a lot of you know about what it is that you are doing, the impact, the imprint you're leaving on the world and you know, hopefully, that your name is and is remembered and that your work is remembered. And you know your discography is huge. I know that there's always going to be the ability to go and especially now, the ability to just pick up your phone and play and check it out.

Speaker 1: 58:20

I've seen you play live. Uh, it's again, it's. It's really. It's fun that all these things can get recorded in that way. With digital world and as far as video and audio cause, those things will live forever. Uh, I highly suggest people go check out YouTube page and make sure you've keen in on some of those live videos, because those are super fun. The perfect drug oh my gosh, that that rendition that was recorded there is phenomenal man. I was always wondering how that was going to be played live.

Speaker 1: 58:47

I know Chris, you know and Josh have seen those guys play, but this one is just a great one. So that's a. That's a video. I'd say start with a really good one. But listen, man, I really appreciate you coming on today and and I wish you all the best of luck with this book.

Speaker 1: 59:05

Uh, look forward to hopping on again sometime when you know volume two comes out and, uh, you know, hopefully next time you're on tour, uh, saying hello in person sometime, but I really appreciate you coming on today and thank you so much. Well, thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 59:14

Cheers man, you take care, you too. Bye.