Speaker 1: 0:15

Hello everybody, welcome back to the Son of a Blitch podcast. I'm your host, george Blitch, and today you're in for quite a treat. I just wrapped up a conversation with Brantley and Shockey that is going to touch your heart. Um, it really I'm I'm still kind of a buzz from this uh, just in a wonderful, wonderful conversation with just a beautiful human. That's how his father described when I told him I was going to be interviewing him. He's like, he's a beautiful human and, uh, you know, I think we are able to shed light on that today and his kind of approach to filmmaking.

Speaker 1: 0:46

You know, I first learned about, you know, branlon through his work with his father, through the professionals and then later on Uncharted, uncharted Yukon and some of the films that they had done together, which you know lasted multiple seasons, and he also did a reality show for a season with his sister Eva, and that was incredible as well. You know, there's been so many things. He's contributed to some wonderful films and we really kind of focused a lot on the two more recent ones. One is called Once we Were Wolves with Cameron Haynes, which is just in and of itself a must watch. Check out the show links below and in the notes here and make sure you go check that out Profound film and the most recent one that came out, you know, a little over a month and a half ago, called Gone, which is kind of a documentary of Jim Shockey's life and just really talking about his legacy, his approach and what it is that he hopes to leave behind.

Speaker 1: 1:42

There's so many things that you know we chat about too with Brandon and I today. You know where a lot of those were unscripted moments, you know, and he was given in both of those cases, the opportunity to really just go in there and to film without having a predisposed idea of how the show is going to go, uh, and just really kind of to see how this emerges and what comes from. Uh, you know the filming and from putting in that time and recording. Uh, you know these interviews and you know, in the case of with cam the hunt and I really feel like, uh, those are are two really good examples of what Brandlin is capable of doing, uh, and which is just putting out some amazing films that will touch your heart, touch your soul, uh, leave you thinking and leave you wanting more of that kind of authentic uh films that he does. Man. I just I'm just blown away, uh, by the conversation we had today. We really dove in deep and I think you get a really good taste of who Brantley is and the love and respect and honor that he puts into this beautiful work that he does and that he shares with us all. So make sure you're checking out the show notes, check out those films. Go follow Brantley on Instagram for the announcements of what's next. He's got a website that he's working on right now and that'll be coming out soon. That he, you know, he hints out and I'm sure he'll be announcing that. So make sure you're following him so you learn about it when it does, you can check it out and you can check out all the amazing things he's done and been a part of.

Speaker 1: 3:20

Uh, once again, thank you, brandon, for joining me today. It was truly an honor and a privilege to sit down with you. I had such an amazing time and I know that all the listeners and watchers are going to love this podcast. So, without further ado, here is my interview with Brandlin Shockey. Y'all enjoy Fantastic Listen. I'm really excited to talk to you. I want to dive into a lot of the projects you've been involved in, talk about some music, all your film work. But I kind of want to start, you know, at the very beginning and kind of give a little one-on-one background to the listeners. So if you can maybe talk to me a little bit about you know where you grew up and you know how you found your way. Obviously you kind of have a unique story into working with. You know some of your film work and kind of being involved in the outdoor space. So if you don't mind kind of starting us off there and we'll just dive in as we go.

Speaker 2: 4:08

Yeah, it sounds great Cool. First of all, thank you for having me on today. This is very exciting. I appreciate it. It's funny.

Speaker 2: 4:16

I was just like half an hour ago. I was filling out this online form for this company and they're asking you know what's my experience in the firearms industry and the hunting industry? And they said you know how long have you been involved in the industry? And, uh, I was trying to come up with a number and I just put you know, since I was born like smiley face, uh on the on the forum, cause I mean I've I've been involved in the hunting industry, outdoor industry, since I can remember. Uh, some of my earliest memories are and this is probably illegal, actually but I had a little like a BB gun my dad got me and he'd be working at his desk, you know, typing, and I'd be, uh like under his desk firing the BB gun at these little boxes full of uh like pieces of cardboard and stuff inside the house. So, um, yeah, I I've.

Speaker 2: 5:01

I grew up in the outdoor industry, obviously, and I and I kind of I strayed a little bit from that when I got into um, you know, high school and and university. I kind of went through that phase where, uh, you know, I didn't necessarily appreciate, uh, you know where you, the let's see, didn't necessarily appreciate the environment that I grew up in and I thought, oh, you know, I'm going to go do something else, I'm going to live in a city and wear a suit and tie, and that. So I went to university for business and, but I ended up coming back in the fold a few years later.

Speaker 1: 5:33

Well, how did you find that? Your foothold Cause I know you know, obviously, growing up with your father being kind of an icon in the outdoor industry, you know there's there can be some pressure, I'm sure, um, for you know kind of following in those footsteps. And then, like you said too, you kind of wanted to move into something else, but you found your way back into that, but in the role of a storyteller and doing film work. So I was kind of curious, like how that came to be, that you found that being a driving passion that you wanted to kind of really spend some time and, you know, jump into and run with yeah, yeah, good question, let's see.

Speaker 2: 6:09

So, first of all, yes, growing up with Jim Shockey as your dad is interesting and, looking back, you know I now have perspective on that.

Speaker 2: 6:20

But yeah, you know, when a guy like that, when Jim Shockey is your dad, you're never going to be, you know, manlier than Jim Shockey. You're never going to be tougher than your dad, you're never going to. I mean I'm talking about perspective. Now, right, sure, sure, you're never going to be. Uh, you know, I'm never going to travel the world and and do more hunting than than dad has. It's almost impossible. And so, as a son and I think this is relatively common I mean you do compare yourself to your dad. I mean he's your hero, he's the person you want to be like. But for me, following dad's footsteps exactly was never an option and I knew that pretty early on. I was like, oh well, dad, you're sitting on that whitetail stand for 30 days straight to kill that deer. I don't want to do that. I, you know that's crazy. I mean it's cool, it's, it's, it's epic and it's. You know, all the power to you and and, and I respect what you, what you do, but man, I, you know, I don't have that passion, you're never going to be able to do what someone like my dad has done in the industry. So I was never a storyteller as a kid that I can recall. I was a numbers kid. I was into techie, geeky stuff, you know I was. I was, you know, just a kid. You know nothing, nothing crazy special. I don't think any of my English teachers would be like, oh wow, you know, he showed so much promise, promise as a kid. You know nothing, nothing crazy special. Um, I don't think any of my English teachers would be like oh wow, you know, he showed so much promise, you know, promise as a kid.

Speaker 2: 7:48

Telling stories, uh, that was more something that I discovered and I was, let's see, um, I would film with dad growing up, so he would, and this is incredible and I'm so blessed to have this opportunity because, you know, I recognize this is not normal, but he pulled me out of school and we go, you know, to Africa or to Australia on on these trips with him, or New Zealand, and uh, so I had a lot of worldly exposure, but I was just holding a camera and I was shooting video and I wasn't thinking much of it, so I would never, um, you know, it was just a job to me and it was, and it was. I hate to say that, but I never gave it the um. You know, again, I was a kid, I didn't, I didn't grasp the opportunities that were handed to me, as is when I was younger. So we come back and the footage was fine. You know, I did whatever I could and pass it off and no big deal. Nothing came of that.

Speaker 2: 8:41

Um, but then, you know, once graduated university and I started looking around and saying, okay, what am I going to do with my life? Like, what, how can I do something a little more than just, you know, get drunk with my buddies on Thursdays and go out to the, to the bars? Uh, dad, at that point you know what he was doing. I kind of, again, I came back into the fold. I started talking more about what he, his outlook on life and like how, you know he he looks at challenges as something that you should pursue. The bigger the challenge, the greater the reward. Um, and I mean like, really to an extreme level, right, and and so, and I started reading things like some of the Ayn Rand books at that time, like the fountainhead. That really got. Uh, you know I look back at it now it's a little bit stilted writing, but she was brilliant and she changed my life at that time and I said, okay, I want to do something like Howard Rourke, like I want to go and build something incredible, make something incredible.

Speaker 2: 9:37

And the opportunity at that point was sort of a fork in the road.

Speaker 2: 9:41

I could go into finance and I could try and do something incredible there, which I'm very happy.

Speaker 2: 9:46

I did not take that route, uh, or I could go into, um, the outdoor space, and I could try and figure out how to make a mark there, how to, how to build something like I'm sorry to any listeners who are not familiar with, uh, howard work, he's a character in the fountainhead, um, but hopefully you are, and if you're not, I'd highly recommend that book. It changed my life. I wanted to go and do something different. I wanted to make my mark on the industry and the only way I could figure out how to do that was to just throw caution to the wind and try and make something cool in the storytelling space, in the outdoor space. And again, not everybody has these opportunities, of course, but for me, you know, it wasn't that difficult to get my foot in the door at that point and get an opportunity to make something, and so I did, and I poured my, my heart and soul, truly, uh, into the project, and that became the professionals season one.

Speaker 1: 10:41

So in the professional season, we want to know that. You know your dad came to you and he had the footage there. That was when he was in Pakistan, that's early 09. And you then were going to be in charge of kind of putting together that story and, you know, taking what, I guess you weren't a part of the filming of that, right, didn't you have all the footage given to you? Okay, so, which is a whole different world than kind of you know dreaming this idea up and then kind of running with it, which I know you've done in other projects too. So what did that look like for you? As far as you know that, okay, it sounds like, you know, if you don't have a ton of the editing experience, there's kind of a learning curve there. What did that look like for you to kind of get all this and be like all right, now I'm going to put this together, or did you have some background and experience kind of being around it from that exposure? What did that look like?

Speaker 2: 11:26

Yeah, I did have a little bit of experience because, uh, when dad started his original series, which was hunting adventures, I was around when that started. So I would sit there with the editor and watch him as he was working on putting the series together. And, uh, you know his name. Uh, that was Cody Robbins, and he basically put that together from scratch. And another one, another guy named Jesse Reardon, and they learned, you know, as they were putting that together they went through all the hurdles that I would eventually go through. So I watched them go through that process and then I'm. So I knew at that point that to make a show was possible and you did not have to go to film school for a bunch of years. You didn't have to be some super genius person to do it. Necessarily, I mean, obviously I'm not, but clearly, cody Cody, I love this, but clearly if Cody Cody Robbins, if you could do that series by yourself, clearly don't need to be a super genius. That's kind of an inside thing he's. He's an amazing guy and a good friend.

Speaker 1: 12:23

Yes.

Speaker 2: 12:30

It's a nice little kidney punch to friends. Yeah, yeah, no, uh. So so I knew that it was possible and that's kind of. But I also knew that I was quite naive going into it. And so, yeah, we had all this footage and I basically just had to. You asked what it looked like. It looked like a lot of me sitting at a desk, like we're doing now, and watching, you know, early day youtube videos on how to edit and how to put things together and call people if I didn't, if I got stuck.

Speaker 2: 12:49

And then um and this is again where I got a little bit lucky at this point I was not interested in making a hunting show because that wasn't my passion. So what I did in my spare time was, you know, I'd watch Guy Ritchie movies, things like that. And so I and again, being completely naive, I was like, well, shoot, why don't I just bring some elements of like that kind of editing style, quicker cuts, kind of more music driven stuff, some more character stuff, less focused on like the kill shot? Why don't I bring that into the hunting industry? Isn't that like a cool idea? And you know, again, I'm, I'm a kid, I've I've got nothing to lose, you know, and I'm naive as heck, so I think, okay, this might actually work.

Speaker 2: 13:31

I don't know, it's what I would want to see, and um, and so that's what I did. So I learned how to edit, put it all together, and then I remember, uh, let, that was the Pakistan episode. Was was episode one and it was a pilot. We're going to send that pilot off to the channel and they're going to look at it. And my dad came over and we watched it together and I can't remember exactly, but I remember thinking, like at that point, like, oh, okay, maybe we have made something. That's that's, if nothing else, maybe not good, but it's very unique at that point.

Speaker 1: 14:00

Well, I think it was both good and unique. Just watched kind of the episode a few weeks ago, just kind of. You know, start from that point, oh, wow, okay, it was great. Other things you've worked with your sister there too. If you want to just mind, maybe kind of give some folks who might want to go and see some of the work you've been a part of, maybe some of those titles that you've been a part of, if you wouldn't mind.

Speaker 2: 14:31

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So. Professionals was the first series I did and that was again started with that Pakistan episode. That was a pilot went off to the channel and they thought it was again. I don't know if they said it was good, but they definitely said it was unique and different and uh. So so you know, I kind of rolled the dice and hit sixes or whatever, and then we did great and so that that series came back and that series did very well. We won, all you know, a bunch of awards for that.

Speaker 2: 14:56

Back when, uh, outdoor tv was was, you know, you didn't back and this is this is dating myself but back then, you know, you couldn't just go find hunting stuff all over the place, so it's not like so. So TV was a, was a big deal and uh. So professionals ran for four seasons and I didn't start filming really until a little bit in season two, and then season three was really where, like, I got that chance to pick up a camera again and go back, uh, to places like Nepal, with being very intentional about what I was doing. So because now you've got a successful series, but you're going now every season is new and, by the way, especially in those days, if you do something unique and different, you can only do that for one year and then the next year, everybody else has seen what you're doing and now, all of a sudden, like you're hearing the same music tracks used and everybody's cutting differently, and so, uh, you always, I always wanted to try and like, stay ahead of all. That I was always in my mind, and whether this is real or not, I'm not sure, but I always thought, you know, there's, there's people hungrier than I am, people that want this, uh, worse than I do, that are coming up, you know, that are going to take over what we're trying to do. I'm trying to make the best. At that point I was trying to make the best content I could make my mark in the industry and I was thinking, well, I got to get better and better, better every year, or else I'm. You know, people are going to catch up. So I went very intentionally into season three and that was.

Speaker 2: 16:16

We made a series on the par, uh, uh, was it a four episode? Uh, like a mini series on the pole. And that became the pilot for a different show called uncharted, which was kind of like it's kind of like professionals, but it was more intentionally shot. So professionals were taking a lot of footage that was just kind of handed to us and then we're making, we're kind of weaving stories through it, uh. But but uncharted, like I was going on most of the trips, especially in season one, and we were shooting, you know, with the purpose of making these longer format, more cinematic, story-driven, character-driven episodes. So, anyway, professionals, four seasons Uncharted ran for I think maybe seven seasons with, I think we went into Uncharted Yukon for the last two.

Speaker 2: 16:59

So we kind of focused on the Utah territory, which was which was really really cool and different, because dad wasn't traveling as much then and also, by the way, um, I'm not trying to take credit for all the filming of these things, because I did not film the majority of these episodes. A lot of these were filmed by um, an absolute badass, his name is matt zanil um, and some other cameraman as well. But but I couldn't, you know what dad does, where he travels 300 days a year. You know, at that time I just, you know, I wasn't, frankly, I wasn't able to do that and still be sane. I was losing my mind a little bit.

Speaker 2: 17:33

So sure, sure uh, so we did anyway. So I'll shorten this up. But yeah, those those uh series and what I did, a, uh, just a one season, I don't know two seasons with ivan carter on a show called Carter's War and I was following, like you know, anti-poaching operations in Africa. Then we did a season called my Outdoor Family with my sister, which actually I think it could have been a successful series, but it kind of wasn't. And again, this is, you know, when I say like I was naive, I really was naive and I would just do things because I thought they were cool and I thought, well, reality shows kind of suck, I don't like watching them. So let's just like, let's just show up without a plan and let's just, you know, follow Eva around for a bit with her husband and their young family and show their dedication to their businesses and the outdoor lifestyle and their family. And I thought that would do great. And it didn't, it had bad ratings. So, uh, you know, naive naivety isn't necessarily a good thing. Um, it's nice because it doesn't prevent you from trying different things, but those things can, can definitely fail. So uh did that. And then, uh, I don't know if that was about the time now, it was probably a little earlier than when COVID hit.

Speaker 2: 18:46

But you know, I started a family, we bought a house up in Vancouver Island and then, you know, we went through all the COVID stuff and and and then recently we started, or a couple of years ago we started, a show called American Made, and so that's that's me looking, being a little bit less naive and saying, okay, what, how do we actually create value, like, how do we, how do we be creatives but create value at the same time? Uh, and how do we maximize that? So I try to think of stories that we could tell that are not just interesting stories to viewers, necessarily, but also interesting and valuable to people. That ultimately, you know, fund creative endeavors. And a lot of the times those are those are brands. So so American made is is essentially it's kind of like a chef's table idea, but it falls, uh, the it's, it's telling stories about American entrepreneurs and companies um, making products in America and what goes into that.

Speaker 2: 19:42

And and it's not, it's not like a how it's made thing, you know, like how things come together. I think that's cool, but that's, that's been done, and that's a technical approach. When we're looking at the people, you know, like what is a Pete Roberts, for instance? Why does he, how can he start origin, which is making a camo clothing in America, or making sorry, not just camel, but you know jeans and boots and everything Like? How does he? What possesses someone to do that? Because I was told in business school that it's not possible to make clothes in America, nor should we even consider it. And their speech is, you know, crushing it over there and making it happen and proving all my professors wrong. So we would try and focus on those stories. We're looking at the people at that point.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Well, I think that's so rich to do that and there's so many amazing stories to be told and I was thinking about that too all your traveling and your experience and how much culture and different people and belief systems and just the way of life you were exposed to and how that. That element that comes into play in a lot of these films is that human element. Right, it's not just the hey, we're going to show the sponsor, we're going to do the like. It's telling the stories of those people that are behind where you're traveling to and getting a piece of that. Uh, and you know your dad has been involved in that as well. A lot in talking about that. It's been a huge thing to uh see that human element. I think that's such an important thing to bring into play.

Speaker 2: 21:06

Yeah, I mean to me personally, like that is what is interesting about being alive? It's not. I mean, I, you know, I like technical stuff, you know, I like, I like collecting guitars and things and um, but ultimately to me, what's interesting about life is is people right, like what, what stories you can kind of uncover if you dig a little bit? Uh, and, and storytelling is really cool because you can, um, uh, let me think of it. I was talking to another guy the other day about how to interview somebody and you probably, I'm sure I mean you've done this is your 88th episode, correct? Yeah, so you're familiar with this.

Speaker 2: 21:40

But you know, for American made especially, we have to sit down with a lot of people and these are, you know, big time people, like, like, people that are powerful and that you know have 45 minutes to sit with you and that's it. That's all you're getting. Then they're jetting off to the next big meeting, whatever they're doing, and the last thing I want to do, especially when they're spending money, is to come off, as you know, not knowing what I'm talking about or not being respectful or saying the wrong thing, but at the same time I want to prod them in ways that gets a story. Otherwise they're going to regurgitate the same stuff they would normally do in a corporate video, which is, frankly, stale, right, we've heard it a million times and our eyes glaze over and that's bad for I think it's bad for the company, but it's also bad for the series, it's bad for me. So I try and focus on you know what.

Speaker 2: 22:25

I try and get them to look at what they do in a little bit of a different perspective, similar to, uh, say, you know, yesterday I was driving down the highway, it was going 75 miles an hour. I don't think twice about it, and now that there's anybody else on the highway, don't give a second thought. But if you're telling a story about that, I would say, well, okay, you know what were you carrying in your truck? And I had my two kids, you know, and other than my wife, those are, those are my two most valuable possessions. You know my, my two most valuable things in the planet.

Speaker 2: 22:52

And here I am driving down a highway, 75 miles an hour, and a 5,000 pound truck, and there's 6,000 pound vehicles coming out me the other way, and all it takes is is literally one second of not paying attention and veering the touch and steering wheel in the wrong way or whatever, and you know I can lose everything.

Speaker 2: 23:12

So I try and find and I'm using like an extreme example, obviously because we know that, like driving isn't like that big of a deal but I do feel like most of us go through our lives in that kind of neutral mode and we're just driving along and with the cruise control on and we don't think about what is really interesting, necessarily about our lives and about other people's lives and how we interact with people and the decisions we make. I mean they, they, they matter, um, and they, you know, if you look at it on the right angle, I think that's the key to making things, helping to move people right, to creating emotion in viewers going with cam haynes and retracing some steps, uh, with his friend roy who had passed away, and kind of thinking about those moments that are there.

Speaker 1: 24:09

Then all of a sudden it takes one misstep and then everyone's lives around you have changed you. If you're that person, you're not there any longer. To see how that affects everyone. Right, it's like it, that is a it that that film was very powerful in multiple ways for me, just in the way that you guys told that you directing that was just so profound.

Speaker 1: 24:29

And you know, for those who have not had the chance to watch that yet, I will have it in the show notes in the link below and I highly suggest everyone check that out. And I want to dive into a little bit about that and then we'll dive into Gone, the most recent one you've directed. But if you can kind of tell me a little bit about how that film started, like, how did you, is this something that Cam approached you? Did you approach him with the idea? I want to know about the genesis of that idea and then maybe, if you can kind of give everyone a little bit of background about what that film was and maybe we'll dive into a little bit of the sequence of events there.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Yeah, absolutely so. That film started actually with a phone call from Kip Falks. So Kip is a co-founder of Under Armour and I could talk about Kip for hours. He's one of my favorite people on earth, actually. He's really, really, really interesting guys. He's someone that literally climbed the corporate ladder to the very pinnacle just about and created a $5 billion company out of like him in a garage with the other founder, I mean, that's it, you know, making 20 grand a year. So run from that to billions of dollars and literally hit whatever.

Speaker 2: 25:35

What I was taught in university, which was you know, you've made it like this, is this is our dream, this is our goal. You've got all the power on the planet, you're hanging out with the billionaires, you're living the billionaire lifestyle and and Kip wasn't he got out of all that and he decided that that wasn't what he wanted and he kind of turned his back to it, all left it. You know, if you, if you talk to Kip now, meet Kip, now meet Kip now he don't. He won't mention the Under Armour stuff, he won't talk about money or anything like that. You won't even know he has money really, unless you're riding around in his truck or seeing his house or whatever, but he's not, you know, he doesn't act define him right no, that doesn't define him.

Speaker 2: 26:19

So so really interesting right there. But but he wants to and he'll say that's in the film, but he wants to be a mountain man. That's what he wants to be remembered for, not for this, not for the corporate stuff he did. So he'd always been a fan of cam haynes, right, because cam um really like epitomizes that, what, what kip, who kip wants to be, and these are all things I didn't really know at the time. But we ended up discovering that during the filming process.

Speaker 2: 26:43

But Kip called me up and said, hey, uh, you know, I hardly knew Kip. I think I talked to him, like once maybe, and he said, hey, uh, you know me and Cam Haynes are going to come on a bear hunt. You want to come film it. And, uh, I mean I get asked that a lot, right, want to come film my hunt. And that's no, every time because it's just not. It's just not what I want to do. This I mean I think hunting is incredible. I want to tell great hunting stories, but usually that's not what it is. It's usually just just to hunt, and I've been on a lot of those, and so for me it isn't um, it's not necessarily. I don't find it that inspiring. Now, kip fulks and cam going on trip is inspiring to me and is different. And I I thought, okay, let's, let's, yeah, absolutely. So I told him I was in, uh, you know, no pay or anything like that. I didn't have to pay for the trip other than the flights, but other than that, you know, it just wasn't. You know, it wasn't like I charged Kip a bunch of money or anything. And uh, he said, okay, let's go. And uh, I didn't have a plan. And you know, we went back to like again, me being naive and kind of like embracing that Uh, but sometimes I do feel like, yeah, you'll strike out, but sometimes it works and works really well and it's better.

Speaker 2: 27:53

Actually, like, if I would have spent, you know, a bunch of days doing all this pre-planning and calling these guys and trying to figure out like, what we're going to film, blah, blah, blah, I don't know that it would have come together like it did, because I'd always be trying to steer the story into something that it wasn't so. So we showed up and uh, you know it's a 10 day hunt or whatever up there and I just kind of kept the camera rolling and tried to try my best not to get too caught up in being present, which is kind of unfortunate for, like, for anybody who films. Uh probably knows this but if you get too caught up, like being where you're at and saying, oh wow, this is so incredible and, like you know, start having a good time and telling jokes and stuff, you miss you. You I think you do a little bit of a disservice to what you're really there for, which is to capture, like, what's going on without you present. So so I would uh, cam would wake up in the morning, you know we well, actually we got stuck in this crazy blizzard for like four days in the beginning. So, uh, cam would wake up in the morning and Kip and we all be in the same tent together and I just be filming from like the second they woke up to. Uh, you know, essentially the second. We went to sleep at night and they got. It was crazy because I'd film hours and hours and hours, but I didn't know what I was going to get.

Speaker 2: 29:02

So anybody who's looking to capture content in the same style that I would do, I guess one piece of advice is certainly film. Film the stuff that you should be looking at the stuff that most people find boring right away. Don't look at like everybody thinks oh, it's a hunt film, let's just keep the camera off until you start stalking the grizzly bear or you're going on a hunt in the morning and all the best stuff, the stuff that I remember you know from I think this is true for for most hunters is you remember the stories you guys were telling around the campfires. You remember the camaraderie you had after like day six and you're hanging your head at night, uh, because you haven't seen anything that many days and it's just been a grind and you don't want and your boots are wet and you don't want to put them back on in the morning walk back up that mountain. That's the kind of stuff I want to capture.

Speaker 2: 29:48

And you don't get that during the day. You get it in the off hours. You know when people are, I think, a little bit more. I don't know what the term is. They're not relaxed, but they're not relaxed, but they're just more open, right, they've, they've forgotten about the camera. They're, they're. You find, um, there's a sense of like truth that comes out, I think, during those those times, and I tried to capture that during the film. So I don't know if I was actually. I can't remember what your question was now yeah, just, you know I was.

Speaker 1: 30:14

That was great because I wanted to kind of know how you got involved with going in that and you know the idea of kind of what there was an element there of, of shining a light on the legacy of Roy and the friendship of him and Cam and what that meant and how you know many years they spent together, um, and going on these journeys that were further and pushing themselves more than, and then others. And I was kind of curious too, which you kind of mentioned it as, like you didn't have that plan going into that, like you were there in the moment and being present, capturing what you could. And those you know, those you know non exciting moments where you're sitting there, you know, in in a, in a camp, you know you got the blizzard going on, which those, like you said too, those are some of those golden moments that come out from that, because I think too a lot of the times when the hunts you know those focus on before, like, like you said too, they're setting up for the kill shot. Okay, now you got your grip and grin. That's not the important stuff, it's all the things leading up to afterwards campfire. Those moments and those authentic conversations come out.

Speaker 1: 31:14

So that kind of played a part of that and I was curious if, like you knew the level of maybe you know ham wanting him wanting to give a nod to Roy because obviously he went to his house there too he's going back through Roy's room and it was very emotional because he hadn't been back to Alaska since Roy had passed away and so this was a very monumental hunt for him, one that he had put off for a while, as he talked about. So I was kind of curious, you know, as part of that, I was going to have a follow-up question is is how much were you aware of what you were capturing? Was there an element of that at play that you knew about, or was that something that you there was a discovery upon, uh, your journey there with him?

Speaker 2: 31:51

Yeah, uh, no, I did not know that that was going to happen on the trip. I actually did not know. I don't think I knew that that was Cam's first time back to Alaska after losing his best friend. So, uh, and I do want to say something quickly, like just a shout out to Cam, okay, because you know a lot of people from from on my side of the lens. Anyway, I'm looking for vulnerability, and my, my production partner, caleb, says this all the time.

Speaker 2: 32:19

But you know, being vulnerable is something that actually people respect and I think it's pretty common for, like the tough guys out there right to think oh, you know, I don't want to be vulnerable, I don't want to shed a tear, I don't want to, you know, laugh at that, jokes and things like that. I want to be stoic all the time and if you watch the film, you know, none of that is me ever telling cam hey, like I need you to be emotional here, I need you to, like, say something here. I'm just following around, I'm observing, so, so there's no, you know, other than keeping the camera rolling and maybe some particular shots or whatever. Um, there's no credit that goes my way on that. That's. That's just cam being cam, and he's, if you know cam well and I and I know him pretty well not as well as his family, but I know him well. That's just him. He is vulnerable and he's not afraid to show that, and so he cared about Roy a lot. Roy had a tremendous impact on Cam's life and Cam lost him and he'll never get him back, and so there was that element going on.

Speaker 2: 33:23

And then for me also, uh, you know, a little more subtly I think, and I don't know if I did the best job of showing this, but looking at Kip now trying to be like Cam and the same way that Cam was trying to be like Roy, you know, that's really what I tried to focus on and this is all. This is not, again, not me at the moment when they're talking in camp, trying to put this together, it's just me kind of gradually putting that together as the hunt goes on and we're headed back and flying back home and thinking about what really did I just witness? And how do I take that 80 hours of footage and condense it down to what I think the essence of it was? And to me it's that camaraderie, right, it's.

Speaker 2: 34:00

It's it's um, cam and Roy, and then it's Kip and Cam and you know, eventually there's gonna be someone following Kip. Now, uh, you know it's. So, yeah, I don't, I don't know if, again, if that answered your question, but I'm just trying to distill what I think is the most pertinent and powerful essence of a journey and then into you know 60 minutes where I think it comes across.

Speaker 1: 34:38

Well, I love that you talk about to like you're you're capturing and then you're to put out that you have to kind of maybe have certain sequences or shots or things you're going to do if you're telling this story, but if you are just kind of throwing it on record and then seeing what comes of that, then you're kind of, through that experience, you realize that it is how you wanted to edit that and shape it. It is how you wanted to edit that and shape it and I think you did a tremendous amount of of of service towards that story about, you know, brotherhood, about friendship, about the challenges and just the realities of what that looks like too, and and you know cause obviously it's not just condensed down to that one. You know pulling back shot and that you know there was a lot that went to it and I don't know if we want to necessarily spoil you know the ending there for everybody and as far as what happened but it was a very uh, emotional, uh hunt for him in multiple ways leading up to it and then as far as what happened and how, uh, you know that that ultimately, that that hunt ended and I think you know I was curious too because I think there was a time where you know Cam, I was curious, was that something where he was a little reluctant to, you know, maybe have that film uh kind of go because obviously of how you know the end, you know the kill ended up happening, or was there a part of that that you know? He just kind of left it to your hands and your devices to put that together. Uh, cause obviously I knew that that was a difficult way for how it ended and I was curious as far as how that that interplay was with you guys and working on that film.

Speaker 1: 36:06

You know what did once that film was done and what it was. What did that look like for you? And, uh, you know you said 80 hours of film. I was curious how long it took uh for that editing of that, cause that's a big, big uh amount of footage to go through.

Speaker 2: 36:19

Yeah, uh, okay. So a couple of things. Uh, Cam says and I won't ruin the film, but Cam does say in that film that you know he's willing to die, right, um, and what he's really talking about is he's willing to die for his beliefs, which is, you know, he wants to go hunt a grizzly bear. Okay, and he recognizes that. You know he's not just doing that for food, he's doing it for other reasons too, and and there's an element of there's kind of like a warrior sort of element here where you know that grizzly bear can turn around and can can kill cam. You know that's a very that's a possibility. It may not be um, very likely, but it's certainly there and Cam is okay with that.

Speaker 2: 37:02

So he said at one point that he is okay with that, he's ready to die, and I can tell you from knowing Cam that he's not just saying that, cam means it, he really does mean that, and I've seen comments and stuff online about. You know, cam hands this, cam hands this. Cam doesn't mean that. Or you know, whatever, he's just trying to act tough. That's not true.

Speaker 2: 37:21

You know, whatever his motivations are, kim a hundred percent meant that, and so the issue for him was that he was put in a position where, well, actually, he feels like and I'm speaking for Kim now, obviously I'm not going to put words in his mouth, so take this as you as you may, but I feel like he holds himself to an extremely high standard, and he does that for his own personal reasons, but also because he loves bow hunting, he loves the sport of bow hunting, he loves sports I terrible word, for I hate sport um, loves the bow hunting lifestyle and everything that it represents.

Speaker 2: 37:56

And so to him, go out to him, put all this energy into being the best he possibly can be, not just for himself but for bow hunting and for the respect he has for the animal on the other side of that arrow, and then, to, you know, not potentially perform up to that standard, and then have, you know, guns and things involved, which is part of, just part of hunting, and you know uh I believe, as a non-resident alaska, you just have to have that, uh, it's.

Speaker 2: 38:26

That was hard for him to swallow because I think he felt like he was letting people down. Right, he was letting the bow hunting his, his passion down, his, the the thing that he the only thing he cares about outside of family, like he was letting that down. So, yeah, he definitely we want that film was ready for quite a while. I mean, I was going to at least six months or longer, uh, and he wasn't sure if he wanted to release it. For that reason he didn't want to. He didn't want to tarnish, uh, bow hunting.

Speaker 1: 38:52

What was that then? Decision that clipped like for him. Was that a conversation that happened? Or one day he just said let's run it Like. How did that come about? Cause obviously I could tell that the hesitation for a little while after it was done. What did it look like from that point to then? Okay, we're going to put it out and we're going to hit go.

Speaker 2: 39:11

Uh, I actually don't know. I think maybe Kip had talked to him and I know I had talked to him a little bit, uh, but I certainly wasn't me that made that happen. You, but it certainly wasn't me that made that happen. You'd have to talk to Kim. I'm trying to remember. If he's, yeah, maybe when he comes on ask him. Yeah, I want to say it was him talking with Kip, or maybe he talked with Joe Rogan a little bit about it. I can't remember. Yeah, but at some point he decided to go for it. It wasn't a small thing for him, like you know, he was he's again, he's just very passionate about it and he wanted to make sure that he's um, he's doing what you know he's. I don't know what the words are.

Speaker 1: 39:45

He's honoring the best version.

Speaker 2: 39:47

Yeah, the best, yeah, he wants to honor the, that lifestyle and he wants to be the best for all those reasons were listed and for those who, who, who don't know, you know about Cam and his journey to it.

Speaker 1: 39:59

I'll have some notes there below. But he is by far one of the most extreme, um, you know, athletes, but he pushes himself to be able to get further in the woods to be able to have the most authentic experience. And he, his dedication, is practice and shooting every day is to make sure that he honors that animal and that time spent to where he's going to be, uh, the most ethical and lethal with what he does. And so that kind of leads up to our conversation, and you know I'll have again the, the link in the show notes, cause it's an incredible film. I thought you did such an amazing job putting that together.

Speaker 1: 40:33

The, the filming of it was amazing, the story, everything all around man. I think it was such an important thing and I'm so glad that he uh finally hit the green light on that, cause I think it it it shows a lot about him. You know, like we said to the camaraderie, the brother ship, uh, you know the, the hunt, the honoring of the animals and the landscape, and what an a beautiful, amazing spot. Well, minus the four days where you're stuck in the tent. Maybe you don't get to see as much there. I think it was probably visibility was like a foot right, but it's like you guys talk about it.

Speaker 1: 41:00

You're like I can't even see, but, uh, it was an amazing film and I, you know, just wanted to say thank you for for, uh, what you did with that. You did an amazing job, you know, moving on to another one, that your most recent that you did was gone, um, very profound, man, I mean, I, I found myself watching this multiple times, having, you know, a little bit experience of meeting and chatting with your dad and having him on when we talked about you know his book and you know what he was going through at that point in time and you know when your mother was sick, and then to see this film, and it's just such a beautiful, beautiful film, man, and I'm just so amazed and I was curious how that you know the, the origins of that, you know story of, like, how did that begin? How did you guys decide? Or was this something you said, hey, I want to film, or something your dad, or is that like, how did this come to be?

Speaker 1: 41:51

And what were the kind of the beginning stages of of putting that film together? And then we'll kind of dive in a little bit to. You know how it was put together and you know, obviously, the five act you know set up and I was curious about you know your thoughts going into that and directing it, cause you you told quite a profound story. So yeah, it was just, if you wouldn't mind, kind of bringing us to the beginning of how did that, you know, first hit the table and you know it was a discussion point for you guys.

Speaker 2: 42:14

Yeah for sure, okay. So first of all, I, I talked earlier about being young and naive and having nothing to lose and throwing caution to the wind and rolling dice and just seeing what happens. And I got lucky right this time. You know, I'm not as young as I was, I'm 38 now and I've got mortgages, I've got kids, I've got, you know, companies to run and people that depend on me, and so it's not. I'm a little bit more leery these days of just like kind of throwing caution to the wind and just going doing, you know, whatever I think.

Speaker 2: 42:48

So I'd wanted to make, or I. I knew that there was a story around my, my dad, of course, and there has been for years, um, more so recently, obviously, with my my mom, uh, and, and her, if people don't know, she, you know, she got lung cancer and passed away this last September. Uh, course, but my, you know, for the last several years I've known that there's a documentary on dad, no question. What I didn't know was that how I would justify the time to create a documentary like that and do it justice, right? So not just something I'd throw away and also have it, you know. Help to, you know, help with my other responsibilities in life, which is feeding my family and keeping the lights on and all that. So, you know and unfortunately I wish this wasn't the case but we don't live in a space where, you know, I'm not like Christopher Nolan, where I can create a movie every few years and it's on the IMAX, and make millions of dollars and everybody's all happy. You know it's hard, it's really hard. Lots of people all happy. Uh, you know it's it's hard, it's really hard, lots of people.

Speaker 2: 43:43

Again, I'm very cognizant that I'm very, um, you know, I'm blessed to be in a position where I can even make a living doing creative things. So, uh, basically, the the uh conduit here was Christians in Arms. Uh wanted to do a film and they want to do a film, you know, with with dad, and I don't remember the exact way this all came about. But, uh, they asked if I want to do it and I said, yeah, absolutely, let's do it. And so the reason this film happened the way it happened is thanks to Christian charms, for cause, essentially, they, they believe in the story and they were willing to to to fund it.

Speaker 2: 44:16

Um, so, again, I wish that happened more often and it's it's it's rare, but I, you know, to me, uh, again, I was now, um, it wasn't quite like the campaign saying with with Kip, where I was just being invited to go and hunt and not could do whatever I wanted because there wasn't any funding involved and no brands or anything like that. This is different, because now I'm trying to tell dad's story, but also I'm trying to be respectful for the, the brand that brought me here and, and, you know, not do some I don't know to to make something great, to make something good that that moves people and that that dad does justice to dad's story but also keeps everybody, um, you know, thrilled and and and happy, and so including myself. So, anyway, um, props to Christians in Arms, because we had a planning conversation and I think they are used to working with um agencies, creative agencies that are very willing to, you know, make hard and fast statements about what they're going to film and what the story is going to be, and pre-planning stuff ahead of time. And, uh, I'm not pooing, pooing that at all, but we had a conversation and I remember specifically, uh, they said, well, what's your plan? And I said I don't have a plan. I'm going to take some cameras and some of my best guys and we're going to go up there and we're going to hang with dad, and and they said, right, so you don't have a plan. I said, no, we don't have a plan. And they said that's a, that's a pretty big, you know, trust pill you're asking us to swallow.

Speaker 2: 45:50

And I, we kind of went back and forth and we hashed it out and I said I mean I, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I think this is the best way to approach. And I do. I don't, as we already talked about. I don't think, I think you can over-plan things, especially in the documentary space. Like we're not, we're not doing scripted formats here. Yeah, we don't have a hundred people to try and figure out, like how something's going to work and and you know, set dressing and all that. Like we don't have those luxuries, but what we do have is we have the truth, we have reality, we have a, an authentic angle that always seems to get overlooked. And I kind of settled these things and they said, okay, great, we trust you go do it. So we did Um and so. So we went up there and sat with dad and you asked about the five acts. Um, there was a documentary called the fog of war, and it's uh okay, have you seen it?

Speaker 1: 46:35

I have yes.

Speaker 2: 46:36

Okay, great, so that's probably my favorite documentary ever. Robert McNamara killed it. Uh, just the way it was all put together and what they did there is they separate that into different lessons, right, like lessons from Robert McNamara because this is a defense secretary for whatever it was over a decade to all these like backdoor conversations with the Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis and all these other issues that most of America experienced in a general sense. But he experienced it because he was right there and so he was able to tell us stories from a different perspective that people weren't used to hearing. And I thought that might work very well for dad, because he's traveled the world and done these crazy hunts. He's traveled the world and done these crazy hunts, um, and he might have something to say. You know that that is, again, is authentically unique and a different angle to what most people would think about it. And I knew and having known that, I mean I knew that he's got, uh, certain beliefs, just like Cam does, that are uh like extreme, and not extreme in a bad way, just extreme, and that's something that I think we, we can, we can take from as much or as little as we want, and so we just we sat down with him for I think it was like six hours.

Speaker 2: 47:46

It was crazy long interview and I just asked him question after question, trying to get actually I will say one thing um, if you look back at, uh, like dad's hunting adventure days, right, he has a lot of. His voice is kind of like well, here we are and welcome to the show, and today we're going to go after. He has a way of talking that I wanted to avoid in this because I wanted to feel I really, really, really wanted it to be very authentic to who he is, and that's not always easy to find and do when you're working with somebody like my dad, who's been in front of a camera for 30 years. So it took a while to kind of like, and also, I'm coming at dad and just like you and I are sitting right here and I don't have any plan, I'm just asking a random question. So I'm trying to find, like where the path is, what, what he wants, what I'm trying to say, what he wants to say, and get him to say it in like an authentic way.

Speaker 2: 48:35

And that's again, really what I'm doing is I'm just trying to prod and and pick away things here and there and then filming for a long, extended period of time, uh, and just letting dad do his thing and be real, just like kind of cam would have done in once for wolves, and that's what we came out of it.

Speaker 2: 48:53

So, if you look at gone, really what it is is an interview with dad and and him being as real as he could possibly be. And it's easier right now because dad, um, you know, has has been grieving for a while, grieving in his own way, which is, you know, different than a lot of the way a lot of people grieve. But but, being a son, I know like emotionally, he's far more open right now than he ever has been, and it's been like that for the last few years with, with, with mom and everything. So, um, I tried to focus on that. On the post side, um, and my editor, uh, jordan Bogart, is amazing and he, you know, again, props to him because a lot of the editing that he did, a lot of the amazing cuts and the way that the the um the piece flow like that.

Speaker 1: 49:42

That comes from the edit side too, and he was heavily involved in that so well, and it's there's you talk about too, about like those moments where you know the unscripted, like you know finding the bird, and just there's so many powerful things that you you because this was his first trip back to the yukon since your mother had passed, and so that was part of this idea of like following and having that part of the journey what was that like for him, going to these places that were so spiritually deep, and I don't know if that's maybe the right word, but I mean like being there, like he talks about, you know, seeing your mother and feeling her in the wind, and like all there was a, there was a place there, an imprint that has been so powerful for him, kind of returning home base in a sense, maybe that you get that and that you know I loved how you threaded through so many things and like, at the very end, you know you're, you're at the hand of man museum and his interaction with the young boy there who's you know talking about how he's like I'm going to tell my kids that I met you, that I was here, cause you know your dad's talking to me about that museum at being a collection of all these different things that he's brought throughout his life, uh, to share with others the richness of cultures, of experience, of art, and that idea of this whole.

Speaker 1: 50:55

You know it seemed to be, you know a documentary that you know encompassed his legacy, and then, obviously, what he's leaving behind, cause I believe that you know he told me he's has funds there to have hand a man for the next 30 or 40 years, right, isn't it like it's already funded to where that will be there for future generations to to behold? Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 51:15

Yeah, yeah, the, the. So uh, and again, you know dad is is like him in a lot of ways. He's extreme in certain areas and not bad or good, and I would think mostly good. But one of those things is, you know he wants to leave something behind, he truly, and that's. You know. Part of that, part of what he talks about in the film is what do you want to leave behind? And I think you know me included, right, we go through life where I wake up in the morning, get the kids breakfast, do the stupid dishes every day, which I hate doing.

Speaker 1: 51:43

I feel you.

Speaker 2: 51:44

You sit at a desk you come back, maybe there's a football game, maybe there's not. You know you read some bedtime stories and play some Lego or whatever, trying to hang with your wife for a few minutes if you can, and you do it all again the next day and you know we are in a sense building a legacy with our kids, right? And you know we are in a sense building a legacy with our kids, right, but at some point we're going to have more time on our hands. And these are questions that I know I'm going to think about, but I don't know that everybody, including myself, thinks about it enough. Like, what do you want to leave behind? I mean, we're not going to be here forever.

Speaker 2: 52:16

And dad's personification of that is literally a museum, museum, and it's a 18,000 square foot museum. That's like 30,000 people a year, which, by the way, it's in a tiny little town way off the beaten path of, like you know, 20,000 people, and he gets that many visitors yearly, uh, already, so it's, it's crazy, it's insane. It's nothing to do with hunting, it's about it's a natural history museum, effectively. Uh and so, and you talk about a couple moments, so, um, that, of course, the moment with the uh child. Um, what was his name, I can't remember now. Uh, it was completely unscripted that we were, we were filming the interview and he had somebody come into the museum that he had to meet. So he kind of I think he just got maybe rapping, I can't remember but he got up and he was talking with them and this school group had come in which they do all the time to go through the museum, and dad started talking with them and I was kind of and this is remember, we're talking about not being present, right, trying your best not to get lost in, like what's going on, because I was just kind of listening and kind of sitting there and, uh, they started, the kids started asking questions and I was like holy shit, this is actually like this could be really good. Uh, this could be something we can use like this. What am I doing? I'm sitting here, not filming, and so I I ran back and I think we're, I think we're wrapping like the interview, so we're less. You know, I've been talking for six hours, like the last thing I want to do is film more, and so I picked up the camera. One of the cameras was two cams. The other guys were working like disassembling stuff.

Speaker 2: 53:41

And I ran back there and, uh, I just started observing through the, through the lens. You know what was going on and that all came naturally. Nothing was scripted there. I don't even know if dad really knew we were filming. He was just, she's just being himself, he's just. And the kids, obviously they're, they're just doing their thing because they're curious. You know, that's a like.

Speaker 2: 53:59

We talked about being authentic. Like kids don't know how to be anything else, right, they're not acting, they're, they're being authentic. And there's, when you saw that interaction between dad and them, there's I'm not, I'm not very good at describing this. I'm good at like, recognizing that it's there, but I'm not really good at telling you exactly what it is that I find interesting and and um, moving by that, but I know when I held the camera and that kid went into the back room, it was like I want to. You know, I want to be like you want to have on this museum and and dad's and I know I know that dad means it when he said like this is what I want to have happen I want to inspire people to do you know to, to make great efforts, right, to strive to be whatever it is. You want to be, whatever. That is Not not, I'm just telling him. I'm telling him anything he believes that fundamentally, and to have a kid in there telling him that that's what he's going to do and, dad, you know, change effectively like probably changed the directory of his life, that was very moving to me and so you can't see this, but on camera I'm actually crying as I'm filming this, so I've got tears coming down my eyes when I'm filming this whole scene take place. And I walked back into Kayla, my production partner, after that I said, dude, I just think I just got the best scene I've ever filmed and it was just. It was something that that, if I had not been in that like that mindset of okay, I have to tell a story, I would just walk right by that and not thought anything of it. Uh in, and I think we do that all the time like, I think those moments happen a lot.

Speaker 2: 55:24

They happen. I know I'm speaking like from my experience with myself and my kids. It happens all the time. If someone had a camera here and they could, they could frame that in a particular way and they could capture that and then share it. Like you know, just because dad's jim shocky, like I don't think those moments are unique to him. They're, they're maybe potentially more powerful just because you know his life is just so like insane and crazy and his beliefs are so again, like so extreme and fundamental and structured and strong. I think it that lends itself to having like more powerful moments like that. But but all of us can have and do have moments like that all the time. We just don't, I think we just don't capture them or think about them, unless we just let them kind of slide by it's true.

Speaker 1: 56:10

I mean, there's so many, so many things that happen that we're so busy and we have all these distractions, this disengagement, but like those that, that what you captured there was such a great summation too, and I think of like that jumping post of when you talk about legacy, what's after. And here's this next generation, or two generations. You know he's a younger child and what he, how profound that was for him to to meet this man who doesn't. He talks about it too. He might not know your dad in the global sense of this hunter, this adventure, this traveler. He, you know, sees him in that element too of here's this man who has captured all this art, culture, memories, imprints of other you know, times and other generations and our ancestry and all the richness that's, that's there in that 18,000 square foot, you know, museum. And so that was something that was just amazing and I love.

Speaker 1: 57:05

There's a quote there too. He said the accomplishment is directly proportioned to the challenge. And he's talking to this kid about, like, how you, you know, go do big things, and the kid's just like, yep, I'm going to, I'm going to remember this moment, and it was. I mean, I was balling through that too, man, just thinking about, like too, how there's for, how powerful that must be like for your dad, and I'm sure that there's moments where he feels like those interactions happen and he's probably inspired somebody. But he's, you know, he kind of looks at him and he's like I see you in a way that you know that that connection there, that kind of you know, spans through ages and it's just those two human people connecting on such a profound level. It was a very I'm glad you went and got your camera, man. That was huge.

Speaker 2: 57:55

So powerful. I mean again, though, like that's, that's I'm trying to be clear in this, like that's not me saying like let's direct this and make this happen, just capturing something, just hit record. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Um, but you know, and maybe looking at being open to the idea that you know, we are all of us, I think guilty of missing out on some moments in life that are more powerful than others, and we don't always think about it. And if you think about it, those moments will come usually.

Speaker 1: 58:22

Yeah, no, absolutely. And there's sometimes, I think, what's forced when people are trying to record something in films uh, especially in that kind of documentary style and like that, you know, with interaction, sometimes there's a a feeling of a forcedness too, and that camera's there in someone's presence where you know it's it's sometimes it can get in the way and sometimes, when you're in the background, you have those. You know you're just hitting record and capturing what you capture. Uh, there's amazing how many gems you can pick up, you know I I want to hit another quote too that he talked about too and just get your take on it as well. He said you know, we get two lives and the second one begins when you realized you only have one. What was that that moment? I'm glad you guys keyed in on that what was that like for you when you captured that? Was that something you had heard him talk about before, or was that something that was kind of a new element at play with that kind of, you know, belief system?

Speaker 2: 59:14

Yeah, I had not heard him say that quote before. No, that was new for me, but I have talked to him about that so I knew that's something he'd been thinking about. So two things. One is I remember a conversation I had with dad when I had kids and you know your life. I do kind of feel like your life changes relatively dramatically after that, because now you cannot be selfish anymore, you are not. You know the most important thing in your You're not number one.

Speaker 2: 59:44

Yeah, you're not, you're a distant number, you know, three after your wife, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 59:50

And so to me that was kind of a turning point in my life and I I certainly became a little bit more introspective then and uh, I remember having conversations with dad and he's like, yeah, you know, try being like you think you think you're thinking about that Like, try being a grandparent I'm a grandpa now, like you know we're your mortality is is in stark relief when I think when those things happen. Um, is in stark relief when I think when those things happen. And then, obviously, with my mom and, by the way, my mom was the healthiest person ever I mean literally live the healthiest lifestyle yoga every day, walked every day, ate you know the like, literally like the healthiest stuff you possibly could. And she walked into a doctor's clinic with a cough and walked out with, you know, four months to live effectively. And that gets you thinking too about mortality and um, so I think that's what I think you know. And there's the other aspect is, for dad is uh, after mom died, you know and this is a.

Speaker 2: 1:00:46

I don't know if I want to get too deep into this, but you know, I'd never really thought much about death, and particularly death of, like, a very close family member prior to that point, and what would happen afterwards. And now they're to death. You know, talking to him up to this point, up to that that point, he said I have no idea what's going to happen after. And actually he said, you know, I, I don't know, I guess I'll take it one second at a time and then, when I can, I'll take it one minute at a time and then I'll take it an hour at a time and then I'll, you know, hopefully I can take it a day at a time and maybe one day a week at a time. Like he's just saying that your time with someone who's like you're you're and, by the way, my mom and dad were closely married and in love couples I've ever seen, you know, and I know I've seen comments, because you know he moved on quickly and all that, and that's that's a bunch of BS. If you knew him. Yeah, they were, they're as close as there is, an, as true of a love as you get, um, and he said, you know, and basically he said like time right now is running out, and so we're going to have days, we're going to have minutes or hours and we have out, and so we're gonna have days, we're gonna have minutes or hours, and we have minutes, then we're gonna have seconds, and then, you know, the death is gonna happen, and then there's gonna be seconds, minutes and hours afterwards and we're gonna try and call our way back into life. You know, myself and my sister we've got our families to come back to and that was brutal I mean just terrible as it. But dad comes back to an empty house and so, anyway, I think I think he was in that quote, I think he's referencing all those things.

Speaker 2: 1:02:21

I think he's referencing the idea that just mortality in general is going to hit you at some point, being like wow, you know, I don't have that much longer, like I better use the time I have really well and intentionally, really well and intentionally, um. And I also think he's talking about literally being effectively in some ways reborn after something like that happens. I mean, I watched my, I was there. I mean I watched my dad effectively, um, you know, I watched one of the toughest, probably the toughest guy I know like break, basically, and be reformed into something else and, and it took him a while. He was finding himself for a bit after that, basically, and be reformed into something else and, and it took him a while. He was finding himself for a bit after that and he's reformed now and he's, he's fine.

Speaker 2: 1:02:59

But uh, that was, as you know, without literally being reborn like a phoenix from the ashes, like that's about as close, as your life is kind of over. Your old life is over and here's a new life. It'd be like getting in a crazy, I don't't know, train wreck or something and and being, um, you know, losing everything that you cared about, and then being opening your eyes one day in a hospital bed five years later and you got to restart your life. You know if you want to or or don't restart it, and trust me that that had occurred to me as an option for dad, uh, and, and he did not do that and, um, yeah, so I think that's what he was.

Speaker 1: 1:03:37

he was referencing when I you know from conversations I had with him too, and that he, he was encouraged by your mom to go and live his life and make his moments count and to move forward and to use their you know their time and their legacy together. You know that he, he said that will always be my soulmate. There's no replacement, there's nothing else. It's their, their, they were a blueprint of what it seemed like you'd want marriage to be.

Speaker 1: 1:04:06

And and I don't know the inner and the outs and I'm not sitting where you're sitting but from you know at least the public standpoint and the way that they talked and the way that they described it and the way people you know comment on on things throughout the time. You know there's a that love that was there, was so pure and pristine and just so beautiful, and I know that he wants to honor her with his every day when he walks forward and he still does. And so you know, I don't care what comments are there those are people who don't know stuff but there there was a comment on that particular film, cause I know you you released gone on campaigns is a platform on his YouTube page and there was a guy have you looked at the comments on that?

Speaker 2: 1:04:47

Yeah, most of them yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:48

So the very first lead one that I don't know if it's got pinned or if it's just got so many comments that it kind of became naturally pinned was a guy who is depressed, battling thoughts of suicide, and he talked about how that film changed him and helped to make him want to stick around and have an impactful life and impact others and move through his losses and all the things that had gone through. And it was just, you know, there's outpouring of so much support for your dad and so much thanks for people who saw that and were inspired by that film that you directed and you put together. And I mean it's it's been one of the more beautiful things. Like you see comments on YouTube that are just, you know, whatever people post, and a lot of times you're like, ah man, it goes negative by, like comment two or something, right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:37

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:05:38

I'm just scrolling through hundreds of people who left. You know their amazing, strong, profound feelings and responses to that film and I feel like there's, you know, that legacy of that your father has made, the legacy that you're doing through film. I I see the importance of those through these moments, of being able to have those reflections of those folks talk about how that film, his life, has impacted them in so many amazing ways. And that was just, I mean, it was kind of reading through those tearing up man, I'm like wow, like so much beauty there, so much beauty you put in the film so much beautiful things that they've had and they share with their life, with, with, with your parents, and just the journey to have.

Speaker 1: 1:06:27

You know, at one point in time we're going to be sitting at the end and, you know, thinking about our own legacies that we leave behind. And that kind of brings me to a question with you is you know what's your view and your take on legacy? Is this something that you walk through in a day-to-day, thinking about that? Have you reflected on that and how you want to? You know, leave your mark, imprint for your family for the rest of the world, imprint for your family for the rest of the world, for your friends, for yourself? How do you view your own legacy?

Speaker 2: 1:06:58

Yeah, first of all, thank you for the comments about the film. You're welcome, yeah, and again, I'm sitting there holding a camera and it's mostly covering what's just there in reality. But that is a good question. I don't know that I walk around and think about it super actively, but I absolutely think about. Well, I mean, I've looked through all those comments so I think there's like, yeah, whatever 700 of them, and the comments are amazing. They really are there.

Speaker 2: 1:07:30

And I want to be very clear in something when we when I did you know gone right, at no point did I know for sure that it was going to be, that it was going to move people. So I think you mentioned the, the pigeon scene. Um, I mean, that's just dad catching a pigeon, it's really. And even when I was somewhere, I was like, should I really be bothering capturing this Because it's really interesting to people? Um, and I had to kind of trust myself and be like you know, I think it's interesting, I think it's beautiful actually, and there's that's a term that I think you know like we don't use enough as like, uh, like beauty and something beauty in life, right, uh, I at my and I'm not always like this, but at my best. I think that I have, for whatever reason I have, an ability to find and target beautiful things in life and and and look at things that are mundane and say, no, actually, this is really beautiful If you think about it. Uh, I was, I was listening to, what was it?

Speaker 2: 1:08:25

I interviewed with, uh, you know, zach Bryan does music, yeah, unbelievable, a great, amazing songwriter, incredible. I listened to an interview he did with Joe Rogan. He was talking about that. I was like these are my, these are my exact thoughts, zach, because he's talking like he's saying you know the, the I think it said statue. I know the empire state building. I was like it's beautiful, it's beautiful and I totally agree it's, it's, it's a beautiful thing. And you know, we're so focused on the. Well, the empire state building is 1500, whatever, whatever, 1500 feet high and it's you know it was built in whatever 1922 and three people died and and, but those are just like stats.

Speaker 2: 1:08:59

I don't want the stats. I want like the real, authentic stuff, the emotional stuff, like that's. That's where we find. To me, that's what's interesting and and you know why we get emotional about certain things and and what I can seek out in the world and then hopefully share with people, like I did with Gon. That will move them like it moves me, and so like, yeah, I think it's cooler than heck that I can film a dad catching a pigeon and have people respond to that in the way that I love, you know again, and I'm very blessed to have sort of like a built-in platform to be able to do those things, because unfortunately now I find anyway and this is not a complaint, it just is the way the world is but, you know, it's difficult to do that in a 15 second TikTok video.

Speaker 2: 1:09:44

Uh, you know, and and and that's one of the reasons why I'm not on TikTok, I'm, I'm just not. I don't think I'm capable of of doing beautiful things or doing what I want to do, being who I want to be on a platform like that, uh, with media like that, unfortunately. So, um, in terms of legacy, I, you know, I don't I don't know if I like the word legacy to me I want to do two things I want to continue providing for my family while also doing creative endeavors that I find personally fulfilling and that hopefully help fulfill other people in ways that maybe they don't think about. So, yeah, that comment that the guy said he's depressed and that this video potentially changed his life trajectory. I mean, heck, yes, I mean like that's that's so fulfilling to me way, for way more than like paychecks or the view count on YouTube or whatever. Like, yeah, I just, I just changed, so I helped anyway, you know, change someone's life and that's I don't know what more you could, you could ask for, and I did it in a way that I was able to do, in a way that's beautiful to me. Um, I know the other comments, you know, like talking about the pigeon and all that. I keep going back to that, but they see a beauty in that and just like I do, and I'm like, well, those are might be like, I think like that I truly do in my best moments, not all the time, but sometimes when I'm thinking clearly and I, you know, I find beauty in the world and I love I'm very honored and blessed to be able to share that sometimes.

Speaker 2: 1:11:10

The second thing is so I want to continue to do that. The second thing I want to do is there are other creatives right, I was doing a, actually, when we uh, when we aired gone, uh, we did it like in a in a Bass Pro Shops here and had a big giant theater and there's 200 people there and they're, they all came to watch. And afterwards, you know, dad and I went up on stage and people would ask questions and, um, we did a poll, and I went up on stage and people would ask questions and we did a poll and I asked everybody on it's like, how many people do creative work, you know, as part of what they do for a living? And I think there was like one person that raised their hand. I think it was like the event photographer or something, nobody else. And I thought it made me realize how, again, how fortunate I have been to be in a position where I am able to, you know, be in an industry that does value creative work. Right, if my dad was a finance dude, you know, finance master, I mean I would never have done this. I'm sure. I'm sure of that. That path was partially forged for me already when I was born into the outdoor industry.

Speaker 2: 1:12:13

So I would like to change that number. I don't want it to be one person putting their hand up, I want it to be 10 or 50 or a hundred. I want it to be as many people being fulfilled through creative endeavors that want to be. Not everybody wants to do creative things. I totally understand that.

Speaker 2: 1:12:32

I get it and there's a there's and I very much respect it actually, because there's a honor that I recognize in, you know, being the stoic person that that that you know my grandpa uh worked crazy long days doing really unhealthy stuff, you know, building roads in the middle of Saskatchewan, uh, for years and decades and and and, and that's it.

Speaker 2: 1:12:58

You know he, he literally dreamed about building roads at night and I don't, maybe there's some creative aspects to that. There probably isn't like a ton Uh, and I have so much respect for that because he did it not for himself, he did it for his family and he did it for the future of his, of his kids, and and like, talk about a legacy, like there's, there's, there's honor in that um, and so I'm not, I'm not at all saying, you know, creativity has to trump everything else at all. I'm just saying you know, to me, like our human, our ability to um, like what's the word? Um, not ingenious, I can't think of it but our ability to be creative is unique to us. It makes us, in my mind, human, it makes life more interesting and, yes, more beautiful, and I would love to help create a path for people to be able to express that and still, ideally, be able to provide for the family and live balanced lives and everything. So I don't know exactly how I'm going to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:13:54

Necessarily, I like to spread the word. You know I'd like to. That's why I'm very open in the way that I approach projects and and our creative business, because I want other people to be inspired by that. I want them to go and do that and if, if people message me online I always take time I try to try my best to, you know, write exactly what I think back to them and not worry about the time it takes me to do that. Uh, you know, maybe I'll do a uh, I don't know filmmaking camp or storytelling camp or something someday. But yeah, I want, um, I want the world to be a more uh, a more opportunistic, opportunistic place for creatives, place for creatives.

Speaker 1: 1:14:32

That's an amazing answer. Um, wow, uh, I'm, I'm almost speechless, man, that's, it's, it's, it's amazing, like I. Really. I think there's a lot to unpack with that and I'm really thankful that you shared that and then share that vision for that idea of having more creative to. I think we need to have as many of these beautiful moments captured, shared, experienced as possible, and I think it takes things like that. You're not going to get those in the 15 second clips. Yeah, maybe there's some in there, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:15:05

So I'm not saying it's impossible, because I think it is, but I don't know how to do it but it's.

Speaker 1: 1:15:09

But I think sometimes it it some, I think sometimes it it some of the more profound things we see, or take time to weave together and put together those stories and to understand the complexities and the, the deep, intricate value and beauty of of those moments in our lives that we share. Um, and you know I, just I want to tip my hat to you once again for all that you're. You've put out all of the amazing work that you've been a part of and the end result of what it is you're sharing, cause it's so profound, it's so incredible. Um, I just find you to be an amazing filmmaker and just great human. Like when I told your dad that I was going to have you on the podcast, he said he's one of the greatest humans, like, and I was just like it just full stop, and I was like what a great sentence and what a great thing to to say about someone, just a beautiful human.

Speaker 1: 1:15:58

And, uh, you know I, I, I find that to be in your putting out things that, um, you know I, I can't wait to see what you're doing next and what you share, and I just want to thank you for following and honoring the path the way that you do and do and leaving room for all those amazing moments to come through. With that, I'd like to have you share where people can go ahead and, like I said, I'll have the films that we spoke about today. There'll be a direct link here in the show notes below, so I encourage everyone to go and check those out. You have to go see those two films that we just discussed and the other ones that you've put together as well, and you know your journey with your dad, but as far as people want to go and kind of, you know, make sure that they're have, you know, their, their thumb on what you're doing. Next, and and you know some of your journey and things that you share on on socials, uh, what are the best places for people to follow you there?

Speaker 2: 1:16:48

Uh, first of all, thank you for all those words, george. Uh, best places is, honestly, instagram. Uh, although I will say I don't, I do not post as much as I should, and my sister has been telling me for years I need to post more and I should have. And I just I'll go through stints where I'll post like a hundred different stories in a day, sometimes when I'm really inspired and we're kind of on the road doing funny stuff, um, and then I'll every once in a while, right Like a longer post. But but yeah, instagram is probably the best.

Speaker 2: 1:17:13

I am putting a website together that'll have all the more like the sort of the work we've been doing, because a lot, actually 90%, of stuff we do I don't even mention or post about it just kind of goes into the cyberspace. So I want to, I want to start and this kind of like plays back to what you're saying about or what I was saying about leaving a little bit more behind. I want to inspire creatives, but also I want to, you know, show that it's possible to be creative and create value for others, and so, you know, the website's going to going to be part of that, hopefully. But, yeah, instagram is the best, best place.

Speaker 1: 1:17:46

So is that something you're in the midst of working on? You have the URL. I mean you don't have to say it yet because then, if those want to follow you, you'll I'm sure you'll announce it on instagram. Is that something that's coming soon? Is that, uh, in in the near future?

Speaker 2: 1:17:58

yeah, well, my production partner. So. So caleb marmolejo is is an incredible creative. Uh, things like I do, um, he's a ridiculous photographer actually kind of makes me jealous, so I stopped taking photos after working with him, uh, but he and I have this, this dream. It's kind of along what, what we've been talking about to create a, um, you know, more than a network of creatives that are more than the sum of their parts, and uh, so we're working on that. So it's called big peak and it should be coming up pretty quickly. Actually, I don't mind if you, if you talk about it, because it'll incentivize me to actually launch the website and write about it.

Speaker 1: 1:18:33

So good deal. Well, that's coming soon. So there you go. Well, listen, brandon, I I I just want to say thank you again for for coming and joining me today, for sharing everything that you do. Um, you know, you, you are a beautiful human man and you're sharing so many beautiful things and I I'm I'm very appreciative that there's people like you out there. You're inspiring. What the films you put together, they're, they're just so profound, man, they really hit the heart and I'm just so, so thankful to you know, be able to have this interaction and to have you on the show and to share some of the things that you've put in the world with all the listeners. So, thank you once again.

Speaker 2: 1:19:08

Thank you for having me on, george, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 1:19:10

All right, man. Well, you take care. You have a great day.

Speaker 2: 1:19:13

Yeah, you too.

Speaker 1: 1:19:14

Cheers.