Speaker 1: 0:15

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Son of a Blitch podcast. I'm your host, George Blitch, and today I just had a great conversation with Jordan Sillars. You guys might know him. He's one of the editors over at MeatEater. I actually got to work with him on a article that I wrote about a melanistic whitetail deer on my family ranch. It was kind of the second article about melanism that I wrote and I pitched it out to him. We worked together on getting that and through getting to know him and kind of emailing back and forth and chatting with him, I was like you know what? This would be a really great guest. And I was right. He is a phenomenal guest.

Speaker 1: 0:47

He talked about his history in the outdoors getting into writing, first being a freelancer with MeatEater and then being the full-time editor there too. So he's one of two who spends most times with editing and working with other personalities within the MeatEater family and putting together articles. So it's not just submissions from the outside he's working on. He's putting out a lot and he's writing a lot of wonderful articles himself. We talked about, you know, one of the ones that was about kind of suppressors and wait time and some of the other ones he's working on and interested in. So you know, we kind of covered that a little bit and it's just neat to hear a little bit more about his history as a writer and, you know, being an English doctorate and all the things that he's involved in.

Speaker 1: 1:27

So a lot of fun. You know we talked a little bit about cooking, some wild game hunting too, so you know a little bit of everything for the outdoor enthusiast that is now tuning in today. So hope you guys enjoy. I'll have all the links below where you can go and check out a lot of the articles he's written as well, as you know, as links to his Instagram page and if you want to follow along with some of the fun stuff he's involved in and you know that is where you will go without further ado. Here is my interview with Jordan Sillers of meat eater. Y'all enjoy, hey Jordan, how you doing today, man.

Speaker 2: 1:57

Good yeah, Doing well. Just you know, trying to catch up on sleep.

Speaker 1: 2:07

We were just talking before we started.

Speaker 2: 2:08

I have a newborn in the house. So, yes, how many weeks?

Speaker 1: 2:10

yeah, if I lose my train of thought that's why uh three weeks right on, and it's a boy or girl boy.

Speaker 2: 2:16

All right, uh, he impacts um. He's healthy doing, doing well, but not sleeping a whole lot. So neither am I.

Speaker 1: 2:26

Indeed. Well, hopefully are you still on some some paternity leave? Are you getting some time off to kind of adjust before you have to go back into the full-time swing?

Speaker 2: 2:35

Yeah, yeah, Me either has a great paternity leave policy. Um, uh, I took three weeks, so today's actually my last day. Um, back back to the grindstone tomorrow, but we're in a good spot, you know, as far as, as far as mom and baby and the rest of the kids. So, um, yeah, it should be good.

Speaker 1: 2:52

Nice, nice. Well, I definitely want to chat about the grind and what it is in your day-to-day to meat eater. But I think you know with a lot of my guests, I like to kind of start with a little bit of introduction on where you're born and raised and you know specifically for you how you got the writer bug and you know obviously been a voracious reader and a writer for a long time. I know you had some influence with your family there too. So, and then I kind of wanted to talk about your love of the outdoors and how you kind of, you know, eventually, you know, became a part of working with Beat Eater and you know your trajectory there, getting your doctorate, all the different things there. So I think if we can just kind of start at the beginning, man, why don't you tell us a little bit about where you grew up and you know kind of how those influences came about, maybe some of your mentorship and kind of, well, you know, throw that needle as we go.

Speaker 2: 3:32

Yeah, no, absolutely. So. I was born in Winnipeg, Manitoba, which is just north of North Dakota in Canada. My whole family is from Canada grandparents, uncles, aunts, my immediate family, my parents and my sister and I moved down to Texas when I was young and then when I was about 10, we moved over to Virginia. We were following kind of my dad's career path, and so when people ask me, where'd you grow up, usually I I say Virginia, because that's sort of the easiest answer. But so we lived there since I was 10 and my folks and my sister are still there. So that would be northern Virginia, shenandoah Valley, just west of DC. So that's sort of where I grew up. I have one younger sister I'm the oldest in terms of kind of outdoor experience.

Speaker 2: 4:27

I guess I didn't grow up in a hugely outdoorsy family. My dad was really into sports and he's a writer, he's a journalist, he loved to read, so he really instilled those loves in me. I got into the outdoors really through friends. I had a good buddy growing up who was a Boy Scout, so I was kind of ended up being sort of an honorary Boy Scout. I would like go volunteer at like the Christmas tree, like farm where they sold the Boy Scouts old Christmas tree sometimes.

Speaker 2: 4:59

And then I had some other friends who were big anglers so we'd go out and do these floats down the Shenandoah river, uh, where we'd fish and camp and, um, that was a lot of fun, um, but I, you know, I'm somewhat of an adult onset hunter. Uh, I, I didn't get into hunting really until college and I didn't really get into it until I got married, uh, and my my father-in-law and my brother-in-law are both big hunters, so that's sort of really when I caught the bug. So it's cool to work for me either, because I feel like that's a big part of our audience that we really try to reach out to and try to serve are those folks who maybe didn't grow up in the outdoors too much but are interested, and so it's great to be able to uh, uh, serve those folks and help them along that path.

Speaker 1: 5:48

Well, and I hear that so many times from people who said that meat eater was kind of their gateway into getting into hunting, um, and really kind of having exploring things. I know that you know you talked in a in a previous uh interview about kind of the, the, the food idea and kind of got you into that. And I remember you mentioned one of the books that was influential to you is the Omnivore's Dilemma, right, was that one that kind of like what was it that? Then you kind of decided that this was something I want to kind of pursue a little bit more, because obviously you know you've talked a lot about your hunting episodes and going around and you know you've talked about different rifles and calibers, like you kind of you're definitely a voice of someone who knows a lot now. So what was it that kind of took that, um, you know, interest into, then kind of moving into you know and you know lack of better words a more professional setting of what you're doing now.

Speaker 2: 6:37

Yeah. So I, um, if you're trying to get into the outdoors, there's there's sort of two ways to do it. There's there's two paths. The one path is, um, you're just like a bad-ass hunter, right, like you're just really good at that aspect of it, um, and then the the other way is you're a communicator, right, so, whether you're a video producer, podcast producer or a writer, um, you kind of get into it through that avenue and you really need both. Right, like I'm an editor at meat eater, um, but I don't write, like how to whitetail articles, because we have guys who are those like badass hunters who know so much more than I do, um, even though you know, I, I know quite a bit. I'm not like at that expertise level, um, but I am a writer, I have a phd in english. I've published in in many different places, both academic journals as well as you know, stuff like meter gun magazines, things like that. So that's sort of the way that I got into it.

Speaker 2: 7:37

I had this interest and then I had this sort of pre developed skill as a writer and I really wanted to join those two together. So it really started out with an interest in firearms, interest in hunting, and I needed a way to fund that hobby, right, because it's expensive, it's super expensive. And so I just had some opportunities to do some freelance writing. And then I realized I just really love this, it's what I want to do every day, and so I just looked for opportunities, eventually got in at MeatEater as a freelancer, did that for two years and then I basically just begged them for a full-time position and they were like, yeah, all right, yeah, well, we can do that.

Speaker 2: 8:24

Spencer Newhart's really the one that kind of made that happen. Shout out to him and yeah, so they brought me on full-time and here I am. But yeah, it's been a journey. I didn't know a whole lot sort of starting out. There's definitely a learning curve with a lot of this stuff. But you know, like I say I, I had developed skills as a writer and so editors liked working with me because they didn't have to edit my stuff too much.

Speaker 2: 8:50

Um and you know that's a huge plus as an editor. Now it's great, like if someone sends you something, an article, and you don't have to do too much to it. It's you're going to be more likely to want to work with that person in the future, for sure.

Speaker 1: 9:05

Sure, sure.

Speaker 1: 9:06

So what does that look like on your end as far as you know, being an editor, you're getting uh submissions, um, you know, sometimes unsolicited, and maybe there's some people who are, kind of you know, regular uh performers.

Speaker 1: 9:17

As far as sending stuff in, um, you know, obviously I'd had an article that I had sent to you and we worked together on that and that got published on the website there about, you know, melanistic deer, and so that was I kind of see from you know the writer's side of things, what it is you guys are doing and you know, maybe, tracking how many words you're trying to do, what you kind of fit in this article and you know what form and format. But what does that look like on your end? As far as you know, your your day-to-day, I guess, because obviously you're remote. You're here in Texas. You know a bunch of the camps out there in Montana and everywhere else is, you know, kind of you know scattered around and stuff. But as far as that being, you know a remote position, as it was, as it is, I was curious about that.

Speaker 2: 10:00

What does that day-to-day look like on that for you? Yeah, I mean, like you say, it's it's really a mix. We have our regular writers, our regular freelancers, and we'll solicit pitch ideas from them. We'll send out emails saying, hey, send us 10 article ideas and we'll sort of comb through that list and see which ones we want to write or we want you to write, and so we'll assign out those articles to those regular writers. And then, you know, we'll also get, like you say, kind of unsolicited messages.

Speaker 2: 10:31

Sometimes people will send us whole articles and say you know, I wrote this thing, are you guys interested in publishing it? And sometimes it's just an idea. You know, here's a story that I've been tracking down, um, you know, here's a, a, a story that I've been tracking down. Or here's a really interesting hunt that I went on, um, would you guys like me to write this up? And so you know, we we take those on a case by case basis. Um, like I say, if, if you send something in that's just really clean and well-written, um and interesting, you know that you're going to have a pretty a better shot, right, a better shot than just, you know, an email with an idea, but yeah, it's, it's a mix. You know, we we rely on both to to produce content for the website, so yeah, and you know, not only are you editing, you're writing too.

Speaker 1: 11:19

You have articles that you're putting out there. You know there was one recently that you talked about with the change in the ATF waiting times for, you know, suppressors. I mean. I remember going ahead and buying one and having that. I think mine was like an 11 and a half month wait, and I'm hearing about some people now who it's like four or five days.

Speaker 1: 11:36

And you know, we look at other countries where you can go over there and you can find one on the shelf, pick it up and walk out with it, and I think that would be the ultimate goal here in the U? S, and you kind of point to that in your article. But I was wanting to kind of chat about that too, and maybe some of the other articles you've written. But what was that? Um, you know what are you seeing when, when you were researching that article, and, uh, you know, I know that you have one here by your side too, and why don't you talk a little bit? You know what, what kind of feedback you're getting, cause there's a lot of comments on that uh post too. I'm sure, a lot of excitement left and right from folks not having to wait to have, uh, some nice hearing issues.

Speaker 2: 12:11

Yeah, yeah, no, there's some. I mean, there's so much of the story. I think the the my big takeaway, um, is just how insane it is that. So just for background case, you're unaware in order to buy a suppressor, it's a bit more of a process than just purchasing a firearm. It goes through the ATF, you have to pay a $200 tax. There's a bit more, just red tape, basically.

Speaker 2: 12:42

And in the past, the wait time you would submit your application, the wait time to be approved to then take your suppressor home was, you know, anywhere from six months to a year. I had to wait about 12 months for the last one that I got and since March those wait times have been significantly reduced, right, so we're going from like 200 days on average to now the average is four days. And the idea that and I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm interested in this and I kind of nerd out about this stuff, but to me, like the idea that a giant regulatory agency of the federal government could increase their efficiency that much, I mean that's crazy, right, like when have you ever heard of that happening?

Speaker 2: 13:36

like at like any kind of like state, federal, like bureaucracy. I mean this is, this is insane. Um. So I heard about this um from from a buddy who said that he was hearing that some guys were getting approved in like a week, a couple of days. I think. I've heard of like same day, right, you go in, you fill out your form, you hear back the same day that you're approved. So I heard about it but it was sort of like oh, whatever, like took it with a bit of a grain of salt, um. But then I went to purchase a suppressor and I talked to the guy at the gun store and he was like, yeah, average wait time now is seven to ten days. I was like that cannot be true, like that's insane. Um. So that's sort of where the idea for the article came from. Um.

Speaker 2: 14:20

And so I talked with uh Williams at the American Suppressor Association. They're great If you want to support the deregulation of suppressors. They do great work. They've been instrumental in legalizing suppressors in states, but also in legalizing them for hunting, them for hunting, because it used to be, you know, 20, 25 years ago there were a lot of states where you couldn't hunt with a suppressor, which, I mean doesn't make a lot of sense, right, um, especially for hunters, because we don't want to wear hearing protection. Um, and so it's, it's great to be able to use the suppressor. Um. So I talked with williams, also talked um with uh the silencer central, one of the biggest ammo uh sil silencer dealers in the country, and they both really told the same story.

Speaker 2: 15:09

It was really just a matter of some personnel changes where some new people came in and they actually took a hard look at the process that they used to approve the forms and they realized that 80 percent of what they were doing was unnecessary, because now a lot of the forms you submit electronically and so the computer can verify. You know, yes, this is a real address or you know, whatever, whatever the computer can verify automatically. It can do that. So they cut 80% of that that work. And they also did something that didn't make any sense before work. And they also did something that didn't make any sense before. They had this policy that was kind of a first in, first out policy, so that if someone ahead of you in line got delayed, usually the delay happens at the background check stage because you get confused with someone else, so they have to track down, like, make sure you're not a felon, if someone in front of you got delayed, your application was also delayed, and so that just gummed up the whole system. Now what they do is, if you get delayed, you know you're delayed, but if you get an instantaneous approval which happens with 70% of those background checks you just get pushed forward along through the process. So that's really what they did and it wasn't like you know.

Speaker 2: 16:27

I thought maybe they'd gotten tons, of tons more money, maybe they'd hired like a thousand more agents to approve these forms. No, it turns out they could have done this years ago. Right, that's the other thing that's so infuriating. Like the electronic filing system first came out in 2015. It broke immediately, but if they had fixed it then and done these things, then we could have been. This could have been for the last decade, you know, just a few day, uh, wait times. So, um, that's that article. It's on the mediacom. There's more details there. There's lots of good quotes. Um, if you want to check it out. But, yeah, as you can tell, I, you know, got pretty excited about the story. Yeah, super, super fun to report it.

Speaker 1: 17:11

Well, it's a huge move forward. I mean, you know the idea that people would have their money tied up for up to a year I think a lot of people are just it was discouraging and most people are trying to use this to be able to have hearing safe rifles. And, of course, you know, for those who may not be familiar, who are listening, you know suppressors are not going to silence it. This Hollywood idea that you're using a silencer, you know suppressor and it's, you know, just mouse fart quiet. That's not what's happening. It will reduce it by a certain amount of decibels but to be where it'll be hearing safe and you can keep your, you know, full attention out to everything you're doing, especially in a hunting environment when you know you want to hear every single thing and maybe you don't want to have to make movements to put in your earplugs or you know any kind of headset or anything like that. So it's, it's a it's a huge move forward. It's something that I think should be more readily available because it's really going to help. Um, and I know there's like the safe hearing act and things too, and well, I'll put a link in in below for everyone to go check that out and it's uh, you know, I liked your analogy there in the article to uh, you know, kind of making it akin to like this idea of like a drive-through right, like like a Chick-fil-A or something where it's like a Chick-fil-A or something where it's like, okay, just you pull over here, we're going to bring you your food, everyone else behind you is going to keep, you know, trucking through and it kind of.

Speaker 1: 18:29

It's just a huge difference in how long ago could this have been made? But, hey, it's here now. We've got to be thankful for it and kind of move forward. Um, what are some other articles that that you've been working on recently as far as writing that uh may be coming out, or can you, you know, kind of talk about that or maybe some of the things that you hope to uh, you know, put some time into uh, once you're kind of getting back in there and the swing of things full time, as there are some articles that are very interesting. You know, obviously hunting season's upon us soon, uh, so I was just kind of curious what, what you know, have your creative juices flowing in that sense?

Speaker 2: 19:08

Yeah, um, so sense, yeah, um, so we've recently started doing full hands-on gun reviews. Um, we hadn't historically done those in the past, um, and I pushed pretty hard for us to to do that. So we've been starting to do that. So, um, there's a few there already. Um, I'm working on one on uh the t3x, uh light, the Tika T3X light. Rough tech, that's kind of a mouthful, but then I put it in an MDT Hunt 26 stock which I mean the price tag on those things is significant but, man, like, when you pull that thing out of the box it is so light. Those stocks are insanely light. So I've had a chance to take that rifle out a bit. Do some accuracy testing. Looking really good. You know pretty small groups, especially, you know, from such a light rifle that will. You know you can take it anywhere. So I have that coming out here fairly shortly. I have a bit more testing to do on that.

Speaker 2: 20:03

I'm also working on an article that was inspired by.

Speaker 2: 20:06

I went out when the NRA show was here in Fort Worth.

Speaker 2: 20:11

The Rock Island auction had one of their big auctions at their new facility in Fort Worth and they had me out to look at you know all the awesome guns they had up for sale, and so it got me thinking.

Speaker 2: 20:25

You know, how do you get into gun collecting, whether it's just kind of as a hobby because you think it's fun, or whether, like this, is a significant investment opportunity. Maybe you know, you start now in like your 30s and 40s and you hope one day that, you know, this will be a potential source of retirement income. So I've been talking with those guys about that. I'm going to be publishing an article in the next few weeks on that topic as just sort of an introduction to how do you get started collecting guns, how do you figure out what's a good deal, which direction to go in, and if the audience is interested in that, we can do more specific, like collecting 1911s or collecting military surplus rifles or those sort of more specific things. But that's something that I've been interested in for a long time and so it'll be fun to look into that more.

Speaker 1: 21:20

Well, on those notes, is there any kind of firearms that you collect or that you? There's something that you're like? One of these days I'm going to own that one. Is there anything that kind of you know?

Speaker 2: 21:31

you fancy in that sense. Yeah, so I'm. I'm not a big gun. I mean I have a lot of guns, but I don't collect in terms of, like you know, as investments or like any specific category. Um, I do.

Speaker 2: 21:45

The the one gun that I bought sort of as an investment and this is how I convinced my wife to let me buy it uh, as an m1 grand um, I saw those were creeping up in price. You know, it used to be like 600 bucks you could get one, and then it was like 800, and now it's like 1500 um, so that is that's one that I really jumped on when I had an opportunity to to get that gun, um, and it's I mean, it's one 1500. Um, so that is that's one that I really jumped on when I had an opportunity to to get that gun Um, and it's I mean, it's one of my favorite guns by far. Um.

Speaker 2: 22:10

One thing that came up in my conversation with the rock Island guys, uh, is just old 22s, um. I'm interested in that just because they're everywhere. You can find them everywhere and they're not very expensive, right? That's real entry, real entry level. You know, you can get a beat up old 22 for like 150 bucks, um, and so I think if I was to start, uh, I would probably start there, just because it's, you know, not that expensive and I love 22, I love shooting them anyway, uh, so that's something that I definitely consider.

Speaker 1: 22:42

That's actually something I'm looking at right now is I have some older 22s, but being able to add the suppressor or even one much fun, so cheap. I mean it used to be a little bit cheaper. Bricks are a little bit more for you know, than what they used to be, but it's such a great thing to do out there and take out. You know kids and you know people who are first-time shooters being able to get them comfortable to moving, that you know being able to have something that's semi-automatic or automatic or even just the bolt action, getting used to having that kind of thing, it's, um, I mean, they're, they're just the most fun to shoot, I think. Uh, and you know, very hearing safe in a lot of ways, especially if you have an express around there too, it's oh yeah, for sure we have a little break.

Speaker 2: 23:35

Action 22 that we shoot with the kids in the backyard. Um, and that with a suppressor, with that cci has this like 710 fps. It's just like insanely quiet. I mean, my pellet rifle is like twice as loud as this 22. Um, and that's so much fun, so much fun out in the backyard.

Speaker 1: 23:56

Is that a subsonic ammo?

Speaker 2: 23:58

or is it oh?

Speaker 1: 23:58

yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:59

Yeah, seven, seven, 10 is is quite a bit, and I think uh speed of sounds like 1100. Yeah, yeah, um, quite a bit, and I think uh speed sounds like 1100. Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that, um, somewhere around there. Uh, so, yeah, 710 is quite a bit quieter, and so with the suppressor I mean it's like you can barely hear it, and so the kids love it.

Speaker 1: 24:18

um, my neighbors love it they're like we don't even know about it.

Speaker 2: 24:22

Yeah yeah, it's not too loud.

Speaker 1: 24:25

Well, you know, when we're talking about kind of hunting and kind of getting into that, I was just curious, what are your favorite uh hunts to go on? And you know, are you uh, do you like to to do some duck hunting and some, you know, waterfowl, is there some things that that kind of? Or is it you know big game or small game? Uh, you know, I I believe I remember reading something about uh, you have an affinity towards squirrel hunting. If that is correct, uh, tell me about kind of what it is. And you know what is your you know year long season look like. What are you most excited about?

Speaker 2: 24:57

Yeah, no, I love squirrel hunting. Uh, we can definitely start there. Um, I think the thing with squirrel hunting and I mean maybe I'm just you know, you know, because again, I didn't grow up doing it, so most people they associate that with, like I did this when I was a kid and now I do other things um, but I just love it, I. I think the thing with squirrel hunting is it's sort of like fishing and hunting combined, because you you take more than one shot and you can bring home more than one animal right, and so there's lots of opportunities. It's not just you're sitting in a tree, you have one shot, maybe a year, to get your deer or whatever it is. You know you're walking through the woods. It's not like you don't have to be, you know completely quiet. So, like I, like I take my son who's almost old enough to shoot his own, and then just the marksmanship practice is so fun because there's, you know, any shooting position, uh, you know against the tree, on on the ground, kneeling, right, whatever it is. Uh, there's lots of opportunities to to practice all those shooting positions and just really practice your marksmanship. And then, once you're done, you know they're really good to eat, right, uh, whether you want to throw it in a crock pot, if they're young squirrels, you know, bread them and fry them. They're amazing. So, yeah, I just I think it's so fun. And you also, you know, here in Texas, you know we don't have massive tracts of public land, but the public land we do have have there's lots of opportunities for squirrel hunting there. Um, there's some. Just about an hour north of me, a wildlife management area. We squirrel hunted there. But then, you know, landowners, oftentimes it's like, yeah, go ahead, especially if you can say like I want to bring my son with me, right, like that's why I'm going. Uh, they're like, yeah, yeah, sure, go ahead, hunt squirrels. So it's get permission, um, so that's a lot of fun. So we do that.

Speaker 2: 26:47

Here in East Texas we actually have a squirrel season which goes from October to the end of February, and then we have the month of May. You can hunt squirrels, um, so we do that. Uh, if I can get a deer quickly, it's better squirrel hunting, um, cause if I have to wait until February, it's the squirrels just aren't around too much. So, um, yeah, whitetail until I get what I want and then squirrel Um, and then, uh, you know, when the, the white bass are spawning up the creeks in the spring, I do that Um, and then a lot of the rest of the years is pig hunting. So I try to get out and get a few pigs um most years. So that's. That's that sort of um captures my year here in East Texas. Uh, and I mean I'm I'm happy with it. You know I don't do a whole lot of like cross country big, big hunting trips. I'm not really at the place in life with a bunch of young kids and not tons of disposable income. I like to kind of stick close to home.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Yeah, no, it makes sense. I mean, and there's so much wild game you're just talking about, I mean to fill your freezer throughout the year um and a and a nice kind of selection.

Speaker 1: 27:57

When you know I was thinking too, like obviously with the meat eater crew, uh, there's a lot of people who are very well versed in cooking wild game and obviously you got you know Steve and his cookbooks and everyone who's been a part of that. You know. And I was thinking when you're talking about squirrels, you know you got Brent and Clay who are going to that, the world champions, you know squirrel cook off and stuff. I figured there's a lot of opportunities for you to kind of marinate in some of those recipes. I was curious if there's any in particular go-tos that you might have either found on your own or that may have been influenced or shared from. You know some of those folks that are, you know your peers over at Meat Eater.

Speaker 2: 28:36

Yeah, I mean, there's so much. So I am not a big chef At least I haven't been sort of historically but it's been so fun to get more into wild game cooking, uh, really, inspired by my colleagues at me, either maggie hudlow, who is the person I really work with the most, um, amazing chef. She's always sending me like, hey, here's what I made. You know, doesn't this look good? It's like, yeah, that looks Um, and if I have questions, like about ingredients or recipes, um, she's a great resource. So she's really, um, you know, kind of inspired me to to do a little bit more of that, um, and so, yeah, I, I, for the super bowl this last year, I made a squirrel Buffalo ranch dip, um, which was awesome. It was very good.

Speaker 2: 29:26

Just recently I made ground venison enchiladas, also from the meat eater website, which was awesome. And you know, just to plug the website, I think we have a great setup. If you click on that recipes tab, you can sort by ingredient. So if you have venison, if you have duck, if you have whatever kind of fish, you can just sort by that ingredient and it gives you all the recipes for that ingredient. So I say that because I've used that quite a bit. If I have a venison roast, click on that and it gives me everything that I need there.

Speaker 2: 30:01

So yeah, that's been a lot of fun and one of the things that MeatEater has really done is open that up to a lot more people. You know, just the focus on food is really valuable and it adds value to the hunting experience to the general public. Really, I think if you look at a lot of those like if when they take polls of support for hunting, if they add hunting for food, support goes up by like 15% or whatever, um, so people are much more open to hunting if they know it's for food and if you can make delicious things with that meat, even better. I mean that'll make it that much easier to to push for that um that use for for hunting.

Speaker 1: 30:51

Yeah, a hundred percent. Uh, it's like my buddy, matthew Mitchell, uh, that I hunt with. He's done some of the co-hosting on the podcast too. He's always saying that, like you know, there's a lot of people who say, ah, you know, when you, you, you hit the whatever you're shooting at, right, you know, it's like all of a sudden the animal's down. It's like, okay, that's when the work begins.

Speaker 1: 31:08

He's like that's when the fun begins, that's where he's like envisioning all these ideas of what you're going to cook and how are you going to take this, you know eye around or whatever you're going to do, and how are you going to prepare it and how many people you get in, and you can kind of inspire from the food aspect. And then it's like, oh, I really like this. So this is really good. You know where it's from, it's not full of a bunch of just chemicals and you know pesticides or whatever it is that could be into the meals that you know you pick up at the grocery store, right. But I feel like that is a great introduction to get people into the idea of hunting, which is, uh, you know, it's like kind of growing up right. If you don't have a parent, a grandparent, to get you into it, you know you have. You end up being an adult onsite hunter or, however it is a friend or brother-in-law, whoever it is it brings you to the table.

Speaker 1: 32:01

Uh, I grew up with it, so it was second nature. I'd go up to Boston when I went to school and tell all my friends about hunting and they're like you hunt what? You were allowed at seven years old to carry a gun around. I'm like, yeah, isn't that what everyone did? You know it's culturally, I was used to it, but I see that a lot and I love that meat eater.

Speaker 1: 32:18

I hear so many times that that's a huge resource. Because you know, steve and everyone, as they're talking about the idea of, like you know, conservation, all the different ethics and principles, and you know what it comes to. It's a very educational thing and I think your articles that you write, that you help edit, have been, you know, really instrumental in kind of helping guide that along. So I'm very excited to, you know, continue to see all those articles you got going on. You know, continue to see all those articles you got going on. Speaking of writing, I was curious, uh, being a writer yourself, is there any plans that you ever want to jump in and do, uh, your own book? Is there anything that you really want to have a deep dive into that maybe you haven't yet, or maybe there's something that even you're working on that you know maybe hasn't been brought up in that sense yet. I was just kind of curious as far as that writer side of you what may be coming down the pike.

Speaker 2: 33:14

Yeah, no, that's a great question. I've I've said I've told people that I think I have a book in me, but I don't know what it's going to be about yet. So, yeah, there's definitely interest there. I'd love to tackle some some big project. You know, I wrote a dissertation for my doctorate. That was about 19th century novels and how they imagined the wilderness, the American wilderness. So I've considered something along those lines, but written for a more general audience. But nothing's really kind of distilled yet in my mind. So, um, yeah, I appreciate that question, uh, but I don't have any, anything specific right now.

Speaker 1: 33:52

Well, when it comes to that, I can't wait to read it. I mean, you're you're a phenomenal writer man and it's uh, you can tell when you have an interest in something and you kind of run with it and uh, I definitely hats off to you on that. It's the whole team man. There's so many great writers there. It's so such a wealth of information, fun, entertaining, educational all around. So that's great. You know, speaking of writing and books, what are some of the things that you have been reading lately? I know, maybe in the last few weeks you've been, you're not as much time to do that because you're kind of busy. But as far as what are the some of the things that you like to read and absorb? Uh, you know, kind of on on a day-to-day or week-to-week what are some of those that that, uh, capturing your attention?

Speaker 2: 34:33

Yeah, well, it's funny you say that, cause I have actually been able to read something that I've read quite a bit of at two in the morning feeding an infant uh, because I've been able to listen to it. Um, so, I, I, I've been listening through, uh, jack carr's books, who I know you've met, which is awesome, um, and his, his james reese novels, and so he just came out with, uh, his most recent one, uh, a few weeks ago, I guess now, or a few months ago, um, so, yeah, I've been listening through through that and that's been a lot of fun. Um, I, I love books. They're very entertaining. Though, I will say and I'd be curious to get your take on this I felt that not this most recent one, but the one before that, I felt it dragged a little bit at times, and I don't know if your listeners are interested in this, if they've read them or not, but the first one's action-packed, you know, awesome, tons of fight scenes, um, and then you can tell jack carr is like a real nerd about history, which is awesome, uh, but sometimes it just like keeps going and going, those like historical, like explanations of events and things just just kind of keep going.

Speaker 2: 35:45

I felt like there was a little too much of that maybe in this last one, uh, but the most recent one is awesome. It's.

Speaker 1: 35:50

it's really moved along quite a bit yeah, so you know you're talking the last one's, only the dead. And we got red sky morning, the new one, um, and it's funny because, um, I heard a lot of people make that same comment. They were like that there was too much break in action. But there's so much complexity, the story, and you know the set and setting and what's happening, that I feel like, uh, you know, it's for those who want to deep dive into that Cause, a lot of these novels that he's writing, you can almost look. I mean, I got, I got sent red sky morning, uh, ahead of time, because I was going to be interviewing him for his book tour and I'm I'm reading it and I remember opening it up and they were talking about, you know, china and Taiwan. And I'm not going to go too much into details for those who haven't read it yet, but I remember like flipping on the TV or I think my mother-in-law had the TV on and it was talking about how China was doing their drill around Taiwan, like they didn't go and invade, but they basically said, if we're going to do it, here's how we do it. And they kind of did the whole setting up of that and kind of practicing the invasion, and then in the book they're talking about that too. So the alignment of real time events, um is really, I mean, it's up to the last moment that he's talking about.

Speaker 1: 37:05

He's like I hate deadlines, I don't pay attention to him. He's like, tell those publicists, cover your ears. You know because he's in the room and he's like, you know, but there's so many things that specially, I mean here we are talking about what you know. This last week has been a very large week and, uh, you know our history, uh, as far as being an Americans and everything that's been happening here, and I think his inclusion of certain things and the details of which you know, you can't just maybe mention something quickly. Uh, he dives in because he's such, you know, a pronounced historian Um, and I'm very curious too about him. I'm excited to read his next book, the nonfiction targeted Beirut. I guess he's going to start doing about every other year a nonfiction book. Um, just the way these guys turn, churn out these books, especially Jack, such high quality writing and so, like you know, one a year is. It's fast.

Speaker 2: 37:59

I mean, as a writer, you and an editor too, that's a lot to to put put out, to have it be quality every time, you know yeah yeah it is, and I mean he's clearly writing from a place where he has a lot of knowledge already, so he's not learning all this just from scratch, and so that that's going to make that process go quite a bit more quickly. Um, I hadn't heard that he was going to do non-fiction, which I think is great, because I think maybe we take like some of that like uh, non-fiction, like historical explanation from the novels, and then we like put it in a more uh sort of um in a non-fiction book that's about one specific topic that he can really go through and dive deep, and and so if you really want that deep dive, then you can go and read that book. If you want like an action thriller novel, then you go read. About James Reese.

Speaker 2: 38:53

I think part of my frustration is that with the first three books, I would listen to them when I worked out and they were great for that. I mean, like, if you want some inspiration for, just like you know, one more set of this, it's like James Reese, is that? But it's not so much with, like you know, a very long explanation of the history of US-Russia relations.

Speaker 2: 39:19

It's like harder to like get yourself pumped up. I'm done. Yeah, so you know, fascinating and that's what I appreciate about those those parts, but yeah, not great to work out to, I suppose.

Speaker 1: 39:37

That is awesome that there's. There's gotta be a review somewhere in there about. You know, come on, jack, you gotta do this, we're gonna. You know, this is the uptempo workout stuff. And then you kind of got the uh relaxed, maybe having a sip of a drink and oh, that is a very interesting history you have there. But you know, I'm excited to see, and I mean, even with that, that whole the james re series. You know they got the prequel coming out here pretty soon. They're talking about, and I was asking them too is like, are you going to do, you know, a season per book? And it sounds like, you know, kind of with the second book they're going to be doing that. It's kind of going to be its own thing. Um, because they can.

Speaker 1: 40:12

There's definitely a lot of concurrent movements that go through each book, but each one could be its own, you know, and I I find it fascinating. I mean I'm sure that you've had some where you've read a book and then the movie's made and you're like, dang, you guys did not do that justice where I feel like the terminalist uh movie with you know, obviously with chris pratt and all the amazing other cast and people behind it, I think just a damn fine job. You know, taking that from from pages to to the screen, man I'm. I was blown away at how well and obviously there's some people that change you know color of hair of you know it's like the different characters I'm. I was blown away at how well and obviously there's some people that change you know color of hair of you know it's like the different characters. I'm like, no, that person was a blonde, this person was this. You know it's uh but it's.

Speaker 1: 40:55

I think it's been a fascinating uh transition to see that, so I'm curious to see what they do with the other ones um, yeah, any other things?

Speaker 1: 41:03

that you're diving into these days? Are there other you know kind of books or interests or things that you're diving into these days? Are there other you know kind of books or interests or things that you're kind of maybe wanting to dive into? You know, maybe not in like a writing editing format, but something that has your interest, that you really want to learn more about and kind of, you know, explore here.

Speaker 2: 41:18

Um, I've been reading over the course of quite a few months of Johnny Cash biography and I haven't read a lot of biographies but it's. It's been really good and I'm totally blanking on the name of the author but just fascinating. I've always liked Johnny Cash's music and I knew a little bit about his life story. But to get that long form just from his childhood, all through his career, I mean, it really makes the music have a deeper meaning. When you listen to it you can remember like, oh yeah, this is what was happening in his life when he wrote this song and you know, here's how this song really catapulted his career forward. Um, so I think I'm gonna start, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to do a biography, try to have a biography going. You know, when I'm done with this one, I'll pick up another one of, of, uh, you know, an author or a musician or someone I'm interested in. Um, cause it's, it's fascinating to get a window into the lives of those people.

Speaker 1: 42:15

I think it is man, it it. It does enrich the music. Um, you know, there's a lot of the people that I think growing up, um, the era of music where I was always diving in and wanting to read about everybody and then, uh, really kind of I could tell you some of my favorite bands, is like here's the history of this or this might be about that. But, um, you know, there's a lot of folks who I didn't really dive into uh, as much. Johnny Cash ended up being one later on. And then, uh, willie nelson has a book that came out recently that the same kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 42:45

Man, you're like, oh, that's what that song was about, or that era, or why he felt this one, or man, a lot of those songs sound depressed during this time. Well, it's because maybe this was happening or whatever it was. But it's, uh, it's enriching. Man, I love reading about. Let me just anyone in general, right, there's so many good books out there, but, no, that's a great idea. I like that man Biography kind of always keep one going and I like the idea of having now, I'm reading a lot, with a lot of interviews I'm doing with different authors, but I like to have. I've always loved history and really the non-fictional aspect of things to study folks in their life. I now kind of reading a little bit more fiction, which has only been the last couple years.

Speaker 2: 43:26

I've been doing the podcast um, it feels like a good mix to have you know my head in both worlds a little bit oh, yeah, yep, yeah, and and also, um, you know like pop fiction and then like classical fiction too, right, like you can read like the, the jack car, you know the like thriller, um type stuff. But then you go back and you read some classic american novels, right, and you kind of really get a well-rounded base. Um, and also, I would say, just speaking of writing, the best writers are always big readers. Um, I don't, I don't think you can really be a good writer without reading, because, because writing it's, it's imitative, um, you're going to imitate what you have read, and if you haven't read good stuff, then you're probably not going to be a good writer. So, for anyone interested in getting into writing, um, just read a lot, read a lot and pay attention to how they construct their paragraphs, their sentences, their arguments, their chapters. That'll really serve you well if you're trying to improve your writing.

Speaker 1: 44:35

Great points, dealing with a lot of people who are sending you stuff, or or even you know you got professional writers around you too and you're working on their articles as well and kind of helping, you know, move those along. I was kind of curious, too, what it is that you know and you know being an English major and having your doctorate as well too like what are some other things that maybe you would give suggestions to people who are wanting to kind of start a career in that outdoor set and setting, you know what. What are some of those things that you you see, maybe from the articles that you've read, that maybe need improvement, or you know some that are hey, that article is amazing, I don't have to do much and I can just leave it as is for the masses. What are some of the things that you might you know kind of advise, you know, new writers in that sense of their direction?

Speaker 2: 45:25

Yeah, Um, a couple of things. So, along with reading a lot, writing a lot is important too, and it might sound sort of obvious, but if you don't have it can be difficult and discouraging if you don't have somewhere to publish the articles. But I think just that process of writing and being able to write quickly, that's going to help a lot. Writing is a skill. It's not something that some people are born with and some people aren't. Obviously there's some natural tendencies that people have, but it's a skill.

Speaker 2: 45:57

Right, it's like any other skill the more you do it, the better you're going to get at it and really paying attention to what you're reading, like I say, and not being ashamed to imitate that. Right, if you have an outdoor writer that you really like, read that person's stuff and imitate it, like how it's constructed. Not like don't rip it off, obviously, but, you know, look at it and learn from it and try to implement those lessons in your own writing. Another thing I would say that I think sometimes people don't think about, especially when they're first starting, is different outlets publish different kinds of things. Right, like here at MeatEater, we don't publish a lot of like long form, uh, you know, uh, descriptions of a hunt, right, unless it's Pat Durkin, and then we'll publish whatever he sends us, cause Pat's awesome. But you know, like, actually, if you're going to submit something to an outlet, go go on that outlet, even if you know a bit about it, read what they have pay attention to, like you know, with your article, for example. Um, you know, with your article, for example, you know we had to cut it down a little bit just because the word count that we usually publish is X and it was a little over that, right, very common, and I've done the same thing.

Speaker 2: 47:13

I tend to be very wordy in my writing and the first, some of the first, things I submitted Spencer Newhart was like this is way too long, man. Like we have to cut this down. Um, so like those sorts of things will ingratiate you to editors if you clearly have a good sense of like the kind of things they publish, um, the topics they want to cover, right, uh and and because of the world we live in, right, if it's an online publication, it has to be interesting enough that people will click on it, right, and that's unfortunate for me as, like a literature person to say, but that's just sort of the reality of of the beast. Um, so, keeping that in mind as well, like pitching ideas that will be popular and like people will be interested in, um, that's another thing that you know, we don't really want to think about too much. We just want to like write from our heart.

Speaker 2: 48:06

But that's not really how it works, unfortunately. Um. Now there are places right, like um, I think, like places like gray sporting journal, right, they're going to publish like more thoughtful, long form type essays, right, that kind of stuff. So different outlets publish different types of stuff, and so it's important to match what you've written to the outlet, uh, as opposed to trying to shoehorn something in that you know isn't going to work and they're not going to go for Um, so that's, I think, just a few things sort of off the top of my head.

Speaker 1: 48:38

No, those are good, man, I think it's a lot of times you definitely have to study where it is that you want to land and what it is. Hey, if you have a style that's, um, where you have a lot of creativity of descriptions or you're kind of painting in the colors of what it is it's around you Some journals may be that fit where other ones are like, no, we want to have it be educational entertainment. Um, you want to have things that are very specific and maybe just straight to the point, instead of all the colorful stuff that's. You know, here's how I got ready for this hunt. No, what was it that you're using? Why was that an advantage or whatever it is? Yeah, you gotta, you gotta know your set and setting, uh, and and the best format. So I think that's very important too.

Speaker 1: 49:16

Um, that was one that I felt like whenever I've shopped some articles you know looking at. Okay, I've written this article. Well, I think when I started that one with the melanistic deer, I had like a 4,000 words or something like that, which is ridiculous. No one, you know, no, nobody's going to necessarily. I mean, there are folks, but most people. I've found that 1,500, 2,000, maybe even 2,500 word count that I've as far as magazines and different you know online publications. But no, it's good to go and research. You know what it is that you want to get into and make sure you kind of I think it helps it out. As far as an editor, too, is you already have. Okay, it's as close to the word count that we normally do, whatever that number may be for whatever publication.

Speaker 2: 50:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:01

Good.

Speaker 2: 50:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess one thing I've also found some success with um is reaching out not just to the like outdoor hunt, fish hook bullet publications, but some more general audience like um. The one of the first things I published was a well, first things I published in in like the hunting specific space uh, was an account of a hog hunt and I sent it into meat eater and they're like, yeah, we don't really do this kind of thing uh. But then I sent it to like a more like general audience publication, um, and they were like, yeah, this is great, this like we hardly ever publish stuff like this uh, but we think our audience would be interested. So, like, expanding your horizons a little bit beyond the like American white tail guns and ammo like meat eater might help too in terms of just getting your stuff out there, like getting it in front of people, getting it out into the world. So that's, that's another thing that I've found some success with as well.

Speaker 1: 51:00

That's. That's a good point. And I mean I really think you know, want to hammer down your ideas like write, write, write the. The most beneficial thing you can do as a writer is to write as much as you can. You're only going to sharpen your skills and, uh, you know it's, it's also one of the hardest things to do, right, like a lot of people have book ideas hardest thing that most authors will tell you is sitting down and being disciplined enough to write it. And if you're going to try to do that as a career, you really have to find that discipline. And there may be times where you put out X, many thousands of words a day and it might not be anything that you use. But that practice of doing that is going to sharpen your skillset to be able to be as accurate as possible on the things you want to down the road. So, uh, you know there's.

Speaker 1: 51:43

I always felt like, even in journaling when I was teaching uh, you know high school English, or you know my, my, my wife when she was teaching, it was like drop everything and just write.

Speaker 1: 51:52

You just, whatever it is 10 minutes, stream of consciousness, whatever it is like you got to maybe have that kind of discipline to do that, to bring, bring those skillsets to the table too, that to bring those skill sets to the table too. And, like you said too, reading is a huge part of that. You know, I'll definitely have, you know, some links to some of your articles down below in the description here. You know, again, I think you've written some wonderful things and I'm excited for people to share. As far as you know, if people want to follow your journey and some of the things that you know, maybe writing, or even you know just kind of the day-to-day some of the things you got going on or some of the reviews you have for different kinds of gear, uh, how can people kind of follow you on your socials? What are some good places, uh, for them to go ahead and do that, if you can go ahead and share that real quick.

Speaker 2: 52:34

Yeah, um, so really it's just Instagram. Um, is really the only place that I post on a regular basis. Um, and that's just Jordan dot Sillars. Um, at Jordan dot Sillars on Instagram. Um, so, yeah, I you know I don't do a ton of that, but I I post stuff when I can and have fun with it. So, and then obviously at me either, um, if you click on my name, all my stuff will come up there.

Speaker 1: 52:56

Yep, yep, and and make sure that, as you see it, there'll be like about five or six articles and then there'll be like a get more and then you'll see the flood works there of all the articles. So, uh, great stuff there. I'll have that link as well. And you know one last question I had for you, and that's um one that I ask a lot of my guests, and that's one about legacy. Um, and especially for you know, creatives and people who are whether it's books or music or whatever it may be that they're putting out the output.

Speaker 1: 53:21

You have a lot that's going to be there in print in black and white. You know, and as far as you know, for a long time, and you know the internet, as long as that's still up and running, as far as that legacy approach of what is it that you hope that you can, you know that you remembered and how you're leaving behind. And then also, you know, on a personal setting, obviously you remembered and how you're leaving behind. And then also you know, on a on a personal setting, obviously a father of four. There's a lot to be maybe said there. So I was just kind of curious about your take a legacy and is that something that you kind of think about?

Speaker 2: 53:50

on a day-to-day. Yeah, I mean, I think, um, my thoughts there go a lot more towards family than professional life. Um, I, I think that everyone has lots of different vocations, and it's not just the thing you do to earn money, Um, it's the relationships you have, whether you're a parent or, uh, a sibling, um, you know, a child. The relationship you have with your parents, um, so that's that's really where I want my legacy to be. Um, my kids. I want to make sure that they know that they're loved.

Speaker 2: 54:28

We're a Christian household. I want to raise them to love God and to love their neighbor, and if I can do that, I'll be pretty satisfied, whatever happens professionally satisfied, whatever happens professionally, you know, on that, I guess it's really what we've already talked about just trying to leave a legacy that helps other people get into the outdoors, you know, get into a place where they're enjoying God's creation and being able to, you know, harvest their own food, know where their food comes from, really have that close connection to a place and to the land. Uh, I think we live in such a a digital, disembodied age, and I think, if I can help people to be a little less disembodied and a little more embodied um, a little more tuned in with the physical world. Uh, I think, I think that's a good thing. So that'd be my answer there.

Speaker 1: 55:27

Great answers. Uh, jordan, I really appreciate you coming in, uh onto the podcast and and sharing what you shared today. I think it's going to be very enriching for folks who are listening along and watching. And, uh, just want to say thanks again for all you're doing. Appreciate, you know, obviously helped me out with my article. There too, I'll try to conjure up some more and get them over to you and put some more work on your plate there, right?

Speaker 2: 55:48

Yeah, sounds good, yeah, no, everyone should go read about this melanistic deer that George shot. I'm still just like it's crazy. Yeah, so go check that out. It's awesome.

Speaker 1: 56:06

We have photos there that, uh, you'll be very interested in if you're interested in whitetail cheers, and we have a couple more on the property, man it's. It never ceases to amaze me. As soon as one of those you know ultra mobile camera images show up, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's another. It's so neat, so that's cool, so unique yeah, well, maybe we'll have to get you down to the ranch sometime and see in person how about that yeah, love it I love it yeah, thanks.

Speaker 2: 56:22

Thanks for having me on it. I was great talking. I'm glad we got to connect good deal, man.

Speaker 1: 56:27

Well, we'll chat soon. You have a great afternoon and once again, thanks for joining me all right, thanks, cheers. I'll see you next time.