Speaker 1: 0:15

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Son of a Blitch podcast. I am your host, george Blitch, and today I got to sit down and chat with Andrew Scott Wills For those who are not familiar. And chat with Andrew Scott Wills For those who are not familiar. He produces music under the name Hawken Horse. Hawken, obviously, the rifle horse. What are the two things that are most important on the frontier? Hey, you're hawking and you're horse, right? So he put those together, started writing music and he is deep within his discography. He has a new album, actually a double album, called Hammer and Hewn, volume 1 and 2. Volume 1 opens today, that's right. Friday, july 12th. Volume 1 drops and Volume 2 will be dropping in October. Now a little hint to the listeners If you guys want to go ahead and get the jump and listen to Volume 2 right now, you can. You can order a CD or a vinyl through his website, hawkenhorsecom, and he's shipping them both together. It's a really cool double album, really neat artwork too. It's a great piece, I think you know, for you to hold in your hands and check out while you're listening to this awesome, awesome album. So that's one way you can kind of jump in and get you know volume two, otherwise that volume two will come out in October. So it's streaming everywhere as of today. You know Apple Music, amazon, whatever you're listening to, itunes, spotify, it's all there. There's some links below and you can go to his website and kind of jump off on whichever avenue you want to be listening.

Speaker 1: 1:32

This is really an amazing album. It spans kind of a time period from 1765 and to the end of volume two, which you know it was 1887. So you kind of have that first, you know, uh, 70 years or so in that first album and 50 years or so in that that volume two. Uh, a lot of wonderful content. He's talking about some of the heroes and, uh, you know really well-known stories and and uh, people during that American frontier times, right. So, uh, we got to talk today about, you know, this album, this album and kind of how he got to doing this solo project. You know, obviously he's worked with a lot of other people in the country singer-songwriter, music business. You know kind of his time there in Nashville working with some of the greats and writing music for them. But this is his thing, this is his passion, the time period of our American frontier that he really gravitates towards. As far as the musicality, some of the instruments he's working on, kind of set that time period, some of the hunting he talks about you know, black powder, muzzleloader, flintlock and things we kind of dive into that and just the myriad stories around that. I think you guys are really going to enjoy.

Speaker 1: 2:44

Andrew's a wonderful guy, very, very talented, and this you know, volume 1 that's available today. I can't wait for you guys to go stream it. I really love this one and I can't wait for you guys to hear Volume 2. Like I said before, go over to hawkenhorsecom, learn more about that and if you want to support him directly, you can purchase one of those CDs or vinyls from that website. There and you can kind of get that little jump listen to volume two, because once you hear volume one you're going to want to hear volume two. Go over to his site, order those and make sure you're streaming this and share it with a friend. And once again, thank you, andrew, for joining me. Thank you everyone who's listening. You guys have a blessed day. Take care. Hey, andrew, how are you doing today, man?

Speaker 2: 3:29

I'm great. How are you doing, George?

Speaker 1: 3:31

I'm doing fantastic. I'm kind of juggling all the hurricane stuff that's happened here in the Houston area, so it's been a little bit crazy this week, but I appreciate that you allowed me to kind of reschedule so that we can get this done, because this is going to be dropping on Friday, the day that volume one of your new album comes out, and I'm definitely wanting to dive in and chat more about this with you. Know, Hawk and Horse, the music that you're producing but I think we need to go back to the beginning. Man, let's let listeners kind of get an idea of where you grew up, how you got into music your love of the outdoors, and then we'll kind of thread that needle as we go.

Speaker 2: 4:11

Well, I grew up somewhere where there were no hurricanes.

Speaker 2: 4:13

I want to move there now, yeah, yeah, I grew up in Southwest Ohio, which we did have tornadoes, but it was a great place to grow up, small town just outside of xenia, ohio, and, uh, xenia is a historical hotbed that nobody knows about because it's just kind of a drive through town, but, um, it has a lot of history there frontier history, native American history and I just grew up there in the middle of it with history signs everywhere and it really, you know, it grabbed my attention early on and I was really like reading every sign front and back and, you know, getting into the interesting details about where I actually lived and I grew up. Music was big in my house and lots of, you know, from oldies to gospel records, to, you know, all this, like all that stuff was big and I loved music and I was a creator. I wanted to, you know, build things, make things, and so that kind of led into this whole, you know, music journey that I've been on and wanting to create my own music, not, you know, not learn how to play that song I just turned on the radio, but to write my own song was my, my desire and my instant, you know, instant thing that I was drawn to. But growing up in Ohio was a good thing. It was it. It's funny, cause I I had, you know, know the outdoors all around me, but I was always longing for higher mountains or bigger lakes or deeper woods. You know, because it was ohio, was especially in western ohio. It's pretty flat, it's pretty, you know, it's lots of farms and lots of crops and it was a great place to live.

Speaker 2: 6:32

But I was always like looking at that horizon, like looking for somewhere with more adventure, you know, more, more mystery, I guess. But I think that's true wherever you live. Wherever you live, it's kind of like, wow, what else is out there? Sure, but now that I'm older, I have a way bigger appreciation for Ohio. It's just got a lot of great hunting, I mean whitetail hunting. It's one of the top five states easily. Yeah, so hunting, I mean whitetail hunting, it's like one of the top five states easily. But uh, yeah, so south southwest ohio is where I grew up in.

Speaker 1: 7:12

Uh, outdoors and history junkie so when did you first get an instrument in your hand? Did you start with, you know, a guitar? Did you start with piano, like many do, growing up and stuff like what was, what was your transition from? I like this, I want to start playing music and then kind of maybe you know how that evolved in your cause. Obviously I'm hearing all sorts of sounds on your album and I know we'll get to that too, but I was kind of curious what was your start in that musicality and was somebody influencing you? Is this something that you sought out on your own? Did you have a mentor? And do you take lessons? Like, how did that journey begin? Cause, obviously, professional songwriter, you've done it with, you know for your, your project, your Hawk and Horse. You've written for other people. So that's something that you know, obviously, the caliber of which you've you've climbed to. But I kind of want to know about that Genesis, of that story how did you first kind of create music and go from there?

Speaker 2: 8:03

Yeah, yeah, it all. I mean when I was 15, it was rock music. I mean we had a piano forever and I just didn't care. Yeah, I just didn't want to, wasn't interested. I'm like, oh, that's, you know, that's a wussy instrument. But now, later in my years I'm like, man, I sure wish I would have picked that up back then. I mean I could play some basic stuff now.

Speaker 2: 8:29

But but back then it was the guitar. It was, you know, rock music. And I was like, wow, I want to, I want a guitar. And so at 15 I I bought an old beater guitar from a buddy who was upgrading to a nicer guitar and it was literally like 20 bucks. He just wanted to get rid of it and I was like done and brought it home and started learning basic chords. Um, I, I sang in the choir at our church growing up, so I had some singing. You know, I was I'm still not like some great I I'm no Chris Stapleton or anything, but I'm a you know the term singer, songwriter. I like to say I'm a songwriter singer.

Speaker 1: 9:15

I haven't heard that before. I like that Okay.

Speaker 2: 9:18

Yeah, yeah, I'm a songwriter first and then I'm a singer. Is how I I like to look at myself. But uh, yeah, so that you know, I got that guitar at 15 and then I started, you know, writing immediately, like I think I learned one song and then, just for the process of figuring out how the chord structure was going, and and then I was like, oh, now I'll write my own. And so, you know, being in rock, really loving the rock music, I started going to those minor chords and you know power chords and easy chords. If we're being honest.

Speaker 2: 9:59

And uh, anyway it was. It was love at first strum, you know, like I was into it and I started writing songs and and it was always a hobby of mine even I went to college for for business and you know, and I was studying and doing everything but I'd come home and that would be my hobby is I would write a song or I would record. I started getting early recording software in you know, late 90s, early 2000s, I had, like this terrible recording software and it's funny when I compare what I work with now, just what I was using back then and oh yeah it's 90 day difference, man.

Speaker 1: 10:42

I remember buying like a I think it was like a two gigabyte hard drive for like $800 for my musical recording and now it's like you know you can, they're giving away things. No one uses anything that small, but it was a and the software was a lot different in the late nineties. A hundred percent, oh, the, the sound blaster like board.

Speaker 2: 11:04

you would have to buy this audio interface. You'd buy that, put into your computer, and now it's like all just, you just plug it in with a USB or whatever and it just everything just works. Now it's crazy, Even for your podcast, I'm sure. It's just pretty simple.

Speaker 1: 11:21

Oh yeah, it's plug and play. Before you had to kind of like, know all sorts of technological arrangements and these things, and it's like there's a latency. That happened. Yeah, it was different, different world, for sure yeah, but that was my hobby is I?

Speaker 2: 11:35

I'd stay up until you know one, two in the morning recording stuff and then struggle to get out of bed to go to class, you know, and um, but it was always a passion of mine. Yeah, I wasn't serious about it, you know. And then I went into the outdoor industry. Um, I, I started working in, uh, the backpacking industry and for a manufacturer in pennsylvania, and you know, and the outdoors, I mean, that's always been a very big passion of mine. So I was excited to be working in the outdoor industry and, you know, I still came home at night and was writing songs, you know, and I, it was just this driving force for me and and by that time I was listening to more country and bluegrass and I was, I was listening to all kinds of stuff and and I was getting into old stuff like bob dylan and really deep diving into some classics, and I have a ridiculous collection of music back before streaming happened, and even behind me I've got tons of vinyl records and all this. But, yeah, music was just, it was uh, you know, I'm a writer. I guess, at the core I'm a writer and and music was a. I'm a writer and music was one of the avenues that I just naturally loved and was talented at naturally, but I also worked my butt off to get better.

Speaker 2: 13:17

And finally, when my wife and I were living in southeast Ohio, right off the Ohio River down there, and I was doing some songwriting still and I entered a songwriting competition and won it and it was like this huge thing for me because I got a co-write with country singer Andy Griggs back in. He was a country star in the 90s and early 2000s and I got a co-write with him and he recorded it and put it on the radio and it was like, oh my gosh, and doors started opening for me and so my wife and I made the decision All right, let's move to Nashville. So I moved down here in 2012 and it was then that I really started, you know, getting to learn songwriting because I got down here and learned real quick. I didn't know anything and um, so I got to write with some heavy hitters, like some legendary songwriters who I grew up loving their songs and it's funny when you're sitting down on the right with somebody like that, of that caliber, and you're thinking of a line and you're trying to write together and you think of a line, a line, and you're trying to write together and you think of a line well, they've already thought of that line.

Speaker 2: 14:47

You figured out why it's not going to work and moved on before you even utter the idea. So there's nothing like learning on the job. Like you learn quick and you learn, you know hard knocks yeah so having a mentor like that is like crucial.

Speaker 2: 15:05

I mean, I can't value it enough.

Speaker 1: 15:09

So when you were doing that, like, eventually, you started to write your music with Hawk and Horse and I'd love for you to kind of talk about that. Obviously, you know, as I mentioned before, you got volume one of Hammer and Hune that's coming out on this Friday. The day that this is released, it'll be live. Then People will be able to stream it and we'll talk about where everyone can get that later. But I was curious, when did you start writing music in this caliber? Because it's a time period, right. I mean, it's like 1765, 1887.

Speaker 1: 15:40

There's this period of time, there's this history that is rich, about the American frontier that you talk about. Your subject matter is very much, uh, you know, while I say singular focused, it's it's not just the singular focus, because there's a lot of different things that you're talking about. But that time period, that way of life, is something that you know you focus in on. And I was curious about what it was, that, uh, the you know that allure for you, uh, and why you wanted to focus on this time period. I mean, it's rich, it's beautiful, I love it, I'm glad you're doing it.

Speaker 1: 16:09

Uh, you know, and it's, it's great, great content. There's so much to talk about. But what was it about that that spoke to you, that made you kind of drawn in there originally. And then obviously you have many recordings you've done, uh, under that name and under that umbrella, uh, for that music. So I was just kind of curious about like how that kind of got started and you know, maybe you can walk us through to you know, the new release and what this one's focusing on as far as you know, subject matter and timeline and things yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:36

So I'd say it was like in 2020 when a lot of people started pivoting 2020, 2021, I started really getting kind of over the Nashville machine and trying to write, you know, in this giant sausage factory and trying to create a song, and I was literally writing five songs a week, you know, every week, and I have thousands of songs I've written in my career and the vast majority of them nobody has ever or will ever hear. They're just gonna sit there and pile up dust. And that was kind of soul-sucking in a way. And and the other thing is I wasn't writing songs for me. I was sitting down with an artist and we were trying to write a song for them, and so it was never about me. For 12 years I was writing and I was having success and had songs on the radio and getting to meet heroes and it was cool, yeah, and I was very proud. I'm very proud of all that, however, artistically it wasn't fulfilling, you know in the same matter that 100, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 17:48

And so I uh, I tell this story a lot, but I I was taking, I was uh, whitetail honey wisconsin, like northern wisconsin. It's an almost probably an hour south of duluth. I was that far up there and so it was a long drive, solo drive, and I was just like, what can I do? And I'm a thinker, I'm a business guy, I love that show shark tank. You know, I'm always thinking of ideas and I'm like what kind of record can I make? That's just for me, you know, and I don't care if anybody else likes it. But if, if Andrew Scott Wills was going to listen to a record, what would I want to listen to? And I thought of the first thing. I thought it was the soundtrack to Jeremiah Johnson the movie. I was like that's what I would listen to, jeremiah Johnson.

Speaker 2: 18:46

And I instantly I was like I should do my own record about the mountain man, about American history. That's where the idea for Hawk and Horse came about was in the cab of my Silverado on my way to Wisconsin. Then the whole time I was up there in the tree stand I was thinking, I was writing down ideas and I was putting this plan together. And then the first song I ever wrote was Free, which is kind of my breakout song, and it just went viral Like in the last two months. It was in the top five of Instagram audio, like above Cardi B, top five of Instagram audio like above Cardi B and you know, and what's? What's the? Uh, pharrell and all those people. And then there was a song about a mountain man. Love it, but uh, but it was really. It was back to that growing up with the frontier, history all around me and people's names like Daniel Boone and Simon Kenton on the would love to do just like a, a project that is just about this, and so that's where the idea came from. I made my self-titled debut hawking horse which had free on it man of the mountain Land. Lay Me Down in Montana, some of those songs. And then that led to like Ole Ephraim, which is a super popular song that I wrote about, you know, grizzly bear attacks. And then came my pet project, which is really about where I grew up and the Kentucky frontier, the Ohio frontier, and it was really about Daniel Boone and Simon Kenton and that was my long hunter record. So, and then the Western water was more pushing West from St Louis into the Rockies and more about, you know, the fur trade and lewis and clark.

Speaker 2: 21:15

So then when I got to like, okay, I put out three records in an ep and where do I go from here? And I I was just writing and I was like I just don't want to write more of the same. You know, I want to, I want to get creative and and I had recently watched that old tv miniseries called centennial and I, and then it made me think of like that classic movie, how the west was won, with all those stars in it john wayne, you know, jimmy stewart and all those guys and was like that's what I need to do is like a quote, unquote, sweeping saga, but it's audio and I want to just tell a huge story. And then the song started writing, you know, and then I started figuring out that, oh, this is not just going to be about, you know, daniel Boone, or this is going to stretch into, you know, the late 19th century even, and I wanted to capture the heart of the end of the fur trade.

Speaker 2: 22:28

And there's this kind of analogy that I was feeling to what we're kind of this, where we're at right now in the world and in the united states. I felt this analogy of you know, we're like this last of a dying breed, like there's a, these people who love the outdoors, who love conservation and taking care of our resources and going on adventures and pushing off in a canoe for two weeks or going on a doll sheep hunt up in the mountains, and those people that are like us are, I feel like they're dwindling, and I feel like my listeners are those same people we're. We're the adventurers, the people that are. You're gonna find my bones and parts unknown, and and so this, this record, was kind of like a big statement about how American history unfolded and how we got to where we're at a lot of the famous, you know heroes that were a part of that unfolding, and I don't know if you want to talk about specific tracks or not, but I do talk about some mountain men like John Coulter and Jedediah Smith.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Yeah, some very rich, fascinating, you know historical folks there. I mean, john coulter obviously went through quite an ordeal. You write about it in in your song, which kind of talks about you know what happened to him and if you want to go ahead and lay that out, we'll maybe talk about a couple other tracks. A powder in the pans, one that uh is, is one of my personal favorites there and I had some questions around that too.

Speaker 2: 24:29

But talk about that john coulter track because it's uh well, he lives some adventures he really did and that was only one of them, right, um, the guy, the guy was on unparalleled, but he, yeah, that one song I do take on, uh, his john coulter's famous run when the uh, the black feet sent him on a run for his life, naked through, you know, the open tundra really, and they were chasing him with lances, and so the song is that story in song format, and I recorded it at a jogging beat to capture the vibe of what's happening. And I have some listeners who are runners and I kind of had them in mind when I was doing that is. You know, this is this guy's literally running for his life, and so I was like this could be a pretty epic workout song. So, talking about motivation, did.

Speaker 1: 25:34

You're gonna get like nike or adidas back. We want to license that for our new running track and yeah, yeah, totally execs, if you're listening.

Speaker 2: 25:44

Yeah, please hit me up, but that's uh, that was a story that I've I've loved, but I was also a little nervous to take on, because it's iconic, sure, and they're just, but there just hadn't been a song that was like compelling about it. I mean, there's been songs that are just, they tell the story or, uh, loosely mention it or something, but I wanted to, like, tell a story in a dramatic fashion and so that was my goal with that track and jedediah smith on that song. That is one I've wanted to take on for a while too. And because he was a very, very cool guy, he was a part of so much rich history. And when I have another song called enterprising young men, that was on Western water and it's talks about how William Henry Ashley puts the ad in the paper in St Louis seeking enterprising young men to head up the Missouri into the wilderness, the trap, well, jedediah is one of the guys who applied for that and was hired to go on that. And anyway, later on that song is called Jedediah Strong and it talks about the time he was attacked by a grizzly and it's a heavy song.

Speaker 2: 27:12

I mean it's uh, it doesn't hold back, I don't think on what happens, but uh, and that's, and that's kind of, you know, important to me. I'm not trying to dance around the details and I'm not avoiding you subjects that maybe not be, you know, politically correct or you know they're just true. So I history is important to me and I want to make sure it's remembered and that's part of you know. It's one of the objectives of my music is to document this stuff and to introduce it to new years.

Speaker 2: 27:57

I've, I've I've got a whole lot of people in their 20s and 30s who've never even heard of some of this stuff and and they're like, who, like, maybe they passed a sign that said jedediah, something like for a state park or something, but they didn't really know who it was. And this, this music, is a way to tell the story and bring life into these legends who aren't with us anymore. But it helps you better understand where you're at, like when you're hunting this mountain range in northern montana and you see, you know a name on something. It helps you better appreciate.

Speaker 1: 28:42

Oh, like, these are the people that were here and did this, and years before I got here when you were talking about you know the previous album there and you were talking about you know your previous album there and you're talking about some of those long hunters. You ended up I was right around the time too that, uh, clay Newcomb and Steven Rinella were working on their long hunter book and I know that you kind of you got onto the bear crease podcast. You spoke with Clay and then you guys actually wrote a song together on this volume, one of the album. So I wanted to, before we kind of introduce that track and chat about that. I was kind of curious if you could kind of talk about how you ended up working, you know, meeting Clay and working on that. And then obviously you did the Ballad of Warner Glenn when they did the feature doc that you know was hosted by Clay Newcomb and you know you got your song in there there. So just kind of curious how that uh, you know kind of relationship formed between you guys yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:34

So it basically started with that first record uh, the debut hawking horse and I was looking for ways to promote it. I was, uh, I had a very small following on instagram, which is crazy to think about now, but uh, you know, I had a mighty, you know 500 followers at the time and but they were passionate and anyway, I was looking for ways to promote it. And my brother, who's, you know, also an avid bear grease listener he was like you, have you listened to that daniel boone series? He did. And I'm like oh, yeah, yeah, it was great. And he's like, maybe send it to them, I don't know. And so I was like, oh, it's not a bad idea. So I, I spent play a copy of the album you know, like that he could listen to. And he, I was just like, hey, I'm just looking for any publicity, like, you know, no pressure, love it, hate it. You know, love the podcast. And he got back to me probably a couple of weeks later and I was like man, you know I'm he's, he's so humble, but he just, it was like man, you know I'm he's, he's so humble, but he just was like I'm just, you know, he has 20 songs, you know he listens to his whole, you know his whole playlist. But he's like I like this stuff and and at the time I didn't realize, but he was in the beginning of working on the crocket series and I he still hadn't told me that at the time but he was like I'd like to have you on the podcast at some point and I was like I would love to be on the podcast. So that was, and ironically I was in florida visiting that same brother and clay texted me and was like hey, I'm getting ready to do a series on Crockett. Do you want to be on the show during the render to talk about Crockett? And I was like, yes, love me, some Crockett. So, anyway, I headed out there and Clay's just a great guy, this whole family, they're just amazing people.

Speaker 2: 31:50

But, um, we actually ended up working on this song for, uh, well, before we had worked on the Warner Glenn song for the the meat eater documentary on Warner Glenn and that was the first song we worked on, um, but then later I was starting to work on this record hammer to him and he uh casually mentioned you know there's that song tennessee stud and you know, I know johnny cash and a lot of other people sing that. But he's like arkansas needs its own song called arkansas mule, and I'm like that's a great title and the most clay title I've ever heard. But I said let's do it. And so we kind of wrote that over text message, just shooting lines back and forth and as we were living our life, you know, just you know he'd be out there, you know riding banjo, and a line would hit him and he texted over to me and I'd be driving and I'd voice memo, an idea.

Speaker 2: 32:55

We just wrote it like that back and forth. And then, um, and then I recorded it and I actually played it for the first time ever on his podcast at the Black Bear Bonanza this past event, and that was the first time I'd ever played it and uh, but anyway, yeah, big fan of the newcom family, um, and anyway, that's probably one of my favorite songs on there, just because I had such a blast writing, writing it with clay and you know, and it I love a good story song. So indeed.

Speaker 1: 33:33

Well, this album has so many great ones and you've done there are some other collaborations too with this. So who are some other folks that you've collaborated with on this? And then I want to kind of dive into your recording. You know style and format and what you're doing and what kind of you know instruments you're using. But before that, let's talk about some of the other collaborations, because there's a couple really nice ones there yeah, so, um, I've written.

Speaker 2: 33:55

Well, one of them is brooke maloof, who, brooke, uh, is from dallas, texas, and she, she's my first nashville co-writer, so the first trip I ever came to nashville I met her and we started writing, virtually actually, because I wasn't even I was in ohio still and she was in dallas and we we started writing on skype. Remember skype?

Speaker 1: 34:23

yes, back in the day we used to put a quarter in the computer.

Speaker 2: 34:30

But we started writing and we kind of like we're on the same level and kind of going through learning pains and writing together. So I've been writing with Brooke for a very long time Going on. I mean literally probably 17 years. We've been riding together and we just write so well together. And and I started telling her about this Hawk and horse project and and specifically hammered and hewn, I was like I need, I want to write with somebody who has some. I want to write with somebody who has some, some of that cowboy in their blood because, uh, she's born and raised in Texas, she's been involved in the, you know the.

Speaker 1: 35:20

Texas cattle, you know the association.

Speaker 2: 35:23

Yeah, and her, her, her mom is a, is a, uh, a historian of sorts of, uh, the of the Western history and anyway, she's a great writer and she's, uh, you know, she, the screenplay writer, is kind of where she started, but anyway, brooke and I have written, you know, quite a few Hawk and Horace songs over the years and her first one I ever released that she wrote with me was lay me down in Montana, from the first record. Um, anyway, big fan of Britain, maloof and Danny Simpson, he's a frequent collaborator of mine as well. He, he is, uh, he is number one. He's hilarious. He has written in both the country and the comedy world. Um, he's, uh, he, he's written songs by, like brad pagely, kenny chesney, um, rodney atkins I can't, I'm just trying to think of something Toby Keith, but he, he is just a great, great, great lyricist.

Speaker 2: 36:34

And I knew immediately I was like Danny would be great, because if you walked into Danny's house the first thing you would see is literally statues like Indian paintings and, you know, dream catchers and, uh, deer heads. I mean, this guy is a mountain man who lives in tennessee and, uh, he was like so in, so in, he was like I'm, and he also has an enormous beard that would push santa claus to shame. But uh, I was like danny, I need to write some mountain man songs and he, he was up for the assignment so, uh, he's written things like bitter root prayer with me. And on the new record, um, he wrote uh, I'm blanking right now coonskin cap, I know he, he was a writer on and shakana hay, which was the last single. Uh, he was on that one.

Speaker 2: 37:42

He's just, he's a great writer and a good compliment for me and my skills and um, and the other thing is I'm, I'm a songwriter who I don't need a co-writer. Right like I, I can sit down, write a song melodically, lyrically, like I got it. But as a songwriter, it's healthy and it's it pushes you to bring in other ideas and that's why I I lean on some of these friends because they come up with the ideas that even I never would have thought of. Brooke came up with one of my favorite songs on this whole, this whole record. Uh, it's actually on volume two called requiem that I think. I think a lot of folks are gonna connect with um, and I never would have come up with that idea and she just brought it to me and I was like, wow, yes, so that's. That's why it's good to work with other people, and teamwork does make the dream work.

Speaker 1: 38:51

It does, man Well, I mean, it's really cool to see that and it kind of stretches your music or ideas and brings in just that new play being in bands before and just kind of being in a room when you have four people writing a song or whatever it may be. Sometimes one person's idea takes a lead or whatever. But when you're doing your own thing, uh, you know you have a, you have a focus on what it is you want to do. You had an idea of you wanted to do two volumes, or maybe it was just the, I'm sure, sheer amount of output of the songs. Uh, but you know, bringing in fresh blood it's always cool, man, it sparks new things and, uh, it's fun to work with other people, especially being a singer, songwriter or songwriter singer uh, you know it's. It's spending a lot of time in your own head and your own space. It's neat to bring in those other ones.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Um, I was kind of curious too, like with with the idea of having two volumes. Uh, you know, for for listeners who are just about to come upon, this is volume one and volume two, two separate things, or is it just like hey, I wrote all these songs and I'm just equally dividing them this way, or is it a time period or is a certain thing that you're doing that you're focusing on in each one? And then you know, I probably should have had this earlier too If you could also tell people the idea of what Hawk and Horse means. I know it, but you know, maybe for those listeners who are just coming into it, if you can kind of maybe lay those things out so we can just kind of jump into those a little more too yeah, um, I'll start with the hawking horse.

Speaker 2: 40:12

Um, on that fateful trip to wisconsin when I came up with this idea, I, you know, I I was thinking of the jeremiah johnson soundtrack, and so when I was coming up with a name for this project, my thought was, what are the two most important things to a mountain man? And I was like his hawking rifle and his horse and I was like, oh, that's great, they both, yeah. I was like perfect, they both start with h, they kind of got a ring to it. Uh, my, my danny, actually danny simpson he was like it kind of rhymes with rocket horse and he was like it kind of rhymes with rock and horse and he's like, oh, it's kind of nice, it kind of has a ring to it. So that's how I came up with the name Hawk and Horse and I think it just is a great way of just describing what the music is without being too ridiculously upfront with it. Like it's it's people who don't know what a hawk is. It's mysterious, they don't know, and I love that.

Speaker 2: 41:17

I here's a fun fact when I'm writing a song, I try to put one word in every song that is not used in the modern time. That's like an objective of mine. I don't. I don't want your average 16 year old to know what the heck I'm talking about. I want them to have to look it up or ask somebody. They'll probably just Google it. And I'm not. I'm trying, you know, I'm not trying to educate them necessarily, but I'm just trying to. I think that's the history to the connection to history is having some of that lingo in there.

Speaker 2: 41:56

But yeah, hammered and Hewn has two volumes, because, well, number one, the sheer volume of songs I mean it's 28 tracks, um, but also I wanted to show different time periods and, um, it's chronological, like the. The second volume is is later and it it starts in, uh, 1837, like post for trade boom, like it's kind of like when the trade starts going downhill a little bit and and the volume one starts in the late 1700s when, you know, kentucky was still, just, you know, the wild frontier. So this covers a lot of time and it didn't start that way, but it grew into that. And then the plan became clear as I kept writing and getting deeper into it and I was like, okay, I can, I'm visualizing this. Now. This is, this is like one of those old movies with an intermission, it's just I love it.

Speaker 1: 43:09

Keeps on ongoing yeah, that's great, well, and it separates the time periods too. So, like I mean, uh, you know, in the subject matter, obviously too you're going to have different people that you're going to be talking about. You know, I got culture on the first and obviously, and you got the coonskin hat there's going to be some other things in in volume two, which you know we'll have you back on to talk about that a little bit more. But obviously the, the, the one that's coming out today as we release this with volume one, um, I, I'm, I'm listening to it and you know, I I think about this time where a lot of you know the musical instruments, a lot of wooden wire based things, right, and there's I'm hearing the percussion and you know, being a musician myself, I'm listening to these things. I'm like, okay, I can identify this instrument, I can identify that I was curious about.

Speaker 1: 43:52

You know, what are your main things? Obviously, guitar, that you're primarily writing these with. What are some of these other instruments you're bringing in for certain types of feels, emotions? You know, maybe is it a nod to that time period and some of those types of instruments that were done there? Were there any parameters at play when you were doing that. And then, uh, you know, within that too, I'm curious about a lot of the percussive elements, like when you're sitting there in your studio, what is around you, that you're, you know, collectively grabbing from, to uh, fit these pieces of these puzzles together that eventually become these songs yeah, um, oh, I love nerd.

Speaker 2: 44:29

Now on this stuff, I, uh, you too, I, I I'm a, I'm also a producer and I've produced other other acts. I've I've downtown nashville and some of the biggest studios and I've had full bands, you know, with some of the best players that you can find in the world at my disposal. Hawking horse is like it's different. This is like how loose and gritty and earthy can I get so that it fits what I'm talking about? And so I don't have, I don't seek out who played on Carrie Underwood's last record. I'm playing 95% of everything on there and I think that adds to the organicness of it. It's not always pretty, or it's not always the prettiest lick you can come up with, but, um, but yes, I wanted to historically kind of honor what instruments would be used or even available on those fringe areas of the frontier? Um, I actually wrote an article that was in guns of the old west last year about music on the frontier and um, so I lean heavily on guitar fiddle, uh, dulcimer, I'll use a dulcimer.

Speaker 2: 46:02

Um, I have guitars in different tunings. I have, um, one of my favorite things I do is this is an old Tom Petty trick, but I have a guitar in standard tuning and then I have another guitar in a Nashville high strong and it mimics a 12 string guitar, and on some of those huge Tom Petty records that was the classic sound. Instead of using a 12 string, which makes it sound more like John Denver, you would use a regular tune and then a high strung on left and right sides and alternating patterns, and it creates this movement, this cool energy. It's an acoustic energy, though, which. That's the other thing about my music. You don't hear electric guitar, you don't hear you know, any crazy heavy bass.

Speaker 2: 46:57

there's some very simple bass lines in some of it, um, when it can, sometimes guitars and dulcimers get a little bright, so I definitely need to add some bass in there. I lean a lot on cello because, um, I think, especially on, you know, the daniel boots side, I have like one track on there which I did not play on that, uh, the wilderness. I just scored it and then I had a quartet perform it for me but, um, it's kind of a nod to the music that was happening on the East coast and the big cities and over in England and uh, so, yeah, all my music is string based, uhbased percussion. I have several native drums I've acquired on my trips. I have an Elkskin Rattle that I use on a lot of my tracks. I'm very, you know I'm a stickler on that kind of stuff. I actually have a Native American flute that I had made.

Speaker 2: 48:14

A Native American out in the Smokies built this and it's in the key of F. A lot of my songs are a full step down, which makes it a little hard for people to figure out what I'm playing. I'm throwing a curveball at them, but anyway, I like to get that low, guttural thing, and I think it adds to the earthy storytelling aspect, is why I do that. There's definitely a process, there's a method to the madness, but so lots, lots of instruments are surrounding me, as well as artwork and stuff that I use to inspire me, and you know, guns hanging on the wall.

Speaker 1: 49:06

Sure, well, you know I was thinking about the gun part too. Guns hanging on the wall. Sure, well, you know what I was thinking about the gun part too. You have the song powder in the pan, which I I really I've listened multiple times through the first volume because we're going to be talking about that primarily. But listen to the second as well. But then in the first one, powder in the pan uh, there was there's lines you said autumn in the air, rifle in the hand. Uh, nothing on earth like the woodland, face to the wind, with powder in the pan.

Speaker 1: 49:29

And I was thinking about when I'm listening to this, the sounds bring me to this time because of the instrumentation and just being musician, I just was picking up on this. I was like, oh man, this sounds like of this era. And then I thought of this era. Is andrew sitting there hunting with black powder rifles or with? You know, like you, not only are you using this musicality of like the instruments that around this time and stuff there too.

Speaker 1: 49:54

It made me wonder like I know you're a hunter, I know you're an outdoorsman, are you also mimicking in your own experience when you're out in the woods using some of these era rifles and things of that nature, and I was wondering, uh, what that kind of of you know, lifestyle is, and is that something you're doing for inspiration? And have you, you know, taken some of these trips in the woodlands where you're maybe not hunting a bear, maybe you are, and using this technology from this time period and just kind of encapsulating that? So I was kind of curious if you could, you know, give me your thoughts and what you're experimenting with on that side of things you're you're experimenting with in that side of things.

Speaker 2: 50:32

Yeah, I, I love, uh. I bought a Flintlock, uh two years ago, my first Flintlock. I've had a muzzleloader, percussion Hawken for years and I would say up until really recently I've taken almost all of my deer with a muzzleloader. Like that was growing up in ohio there was no rifles, right, you couldn't hunt it's, it's shotgun, slug or a muzzleloader. And I was like, well, muzzleloader is way cooler and, yeah, way more accurate. I mean, you got them farther I can. I'm just like, give me that hawking all day. And so I've taken every deer I've ever taken, pretty much, you know, other than the ones I've taken with bow, but and I mean I've taken some with 30 on six and stuff. But what I'm saying is probably 75 of the animals I've taken have been with a muzzleloader and and now I've introduced Flintlock into the mix.

Speaker 2: 51:32

You know, picture Daniel Day Lewis running through the woods and the last of the Mohicans Like I, I, uh, I'm in love with a Flintlock. It is amazing and I took my first buck with it this past year and it was so fulfilling. And the cool part was where I hunt. There's a piece of private land that I get to hunt and it is right there, probably 20 minutes from where Crockett lived in in South Tennessee, and that kind of brought it full circle for me. I was like sure crockett literally haunted this ground at one walking in his footsteps.

Speaker 2: 52:16

Here I am yes, walking in his footsteps, and that I kind of had a moment when I walked up on that deer and I was just like, wow, this is cool and that's the stuff that inspires songs like powder in the pan, and I think a lot of folks will appreciate that song. It's and you don't have to be in the black powder to appreciate it's a song about haunting, you know. Yeah, but it it's definitely, you know, set in a historic era for sure. But um, and that was the other goal is, you know lines like face to the wind. I wanted people to know I'm a hunter and not a non-hunter would not know some of that stuff to put in there, and I and I wanted it to. I wanted people to listen to it and go, oh, he gets it. That's, that was one of my goals.

Speaker 1: 53:07

Well, there's also even, even too, you were talking about in that, in that song is and I can't remember the exact lyric, you can remind me if you like, but if the idea of like, even if you don't get a deer, it's okay, you look what, look where we are, like there is, I think, especially too in our you know, in our world of of being hunters, and there's some people who are on the outside of it. They might not understand. It's like the revelry and the beauty of being there. It doesn't the. When you have the experience of having an animal on the ground, it's great because you can feed your family and your friends, right, and there's, there's richness to that.

Speaker 1: 53:37

But the really enriching part of that is just being out there and witnessing and staring at the squirrels between the trees, as you talk about in that song around, like there's, that is, there's this beauty and appreciation of nature, which also, you know, culminates these hunters, like you said, man, this full circle moment to see this deer on the ground and all the history that came into that and what that's going to inspire with the songs. Uh, there's so much richness to that that I think that you know, those who know know, but if not, it's a great introduction, uh, to that idea. What is it like to be out there and to be hunting, and what is that? You know you're showing the appreciations of much more than just pulling a trigger there, yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:17

And there's. You know, there's a famous Fred Bear quote about that. I don't have to paraphrase it, but it's like you know, if having a successful hunt is taking an animal, then you're missing the point. You know I forget his exact wording, but and that's kind of the same philosophy I've always had. Um, even before I ever heard that quote, it was just I just wanted to get out there and you know, watch the sun come up in the trees and know, experience that, uh, you know you could feel the thermal shift and you're like, oh, here comes the heat. You know, like I, I just love being in the woods. I love, you know I, I love harvesting an animal and, uh, having deer jerky in the fridge too.

Speaker 1: 55:05

But but even if I don't, I'm still, I'm still happy, you know yeah, no, it's, uh, it's that appreciation I mean, it comes through in your music, man, you, you, you paint these mosaics of these, this time period, but also something that trans, it transfers through to time to like our present day.

Speaker 1: 55:25

I can, I'm, I'm listening to this and I'm imagining my experiences, my day-to-day, especially something with powder in the pan too, right, right and like. And then that also makes me think about the time period of what it was and what it is now, and the, the uh, you know evolution of, you know, firearms, or just the evolution of you know the American West, you know, becoming what it is now in our, you know, light way of life, and being able to go back to that time period, which was much simpler and it was much more wild, and I really get into that. When I'm listening to music, it really feels like a soundtrack to that memory lane of those times and of the rich history. So I love that. It pulls from things. It pushes me to want to learn more about different people that you're talking about, or different timelines, or wondering what's so great about that Arkansas meal, right, so it's a, it's something that always it gets it.

Speaker 1: 56:17

There's so much richness. I really love it. I think everyone else is really going to love these volumes. You know, obviously number one's out, number two's in October, but you have something that you're kind of offering for those who want to directly purchase a physical product. In this day of streaming age, you're still producing awesome CDs and vinyls, and if people are buying that now, they're going to get volume two now. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 56:43

Yeah, yeah. So you get a jump on everybody else. If you, you know, buy a CD, you get the second volume. Now, why wait?

Speaker 2: 56:52

you know, don't wait go now too, yeah yeah, yeah, the reason why that you know it's it's happening later digitally is, you know the almighty algorithm that you know all this content is built on um, so it's spread out a little more and volume two comes out in october, which is just in time for all those tree stand sits and all that um.

Speaker 2: 57:19

But you know, if you don't want to wait and you need something to stick in your truck, you know there's, there's an album waiting for you. Or if you just want to, you like the music and you want to support it and you just want to throw it in a closet, I don't care, you know I it's, it's cool because it's not just a sleeve like my. My earlier albums were just just a simple sleeve. You know, with artwork on the front. This is actually like a trifold double album, so it's it's a little more substantial of a, of a package, but you know, but you can also download it. You know a lot of folks still, uh, love downloading on itunes and amazon and stuff that's, and then stream, I mean stream away.

Speaker 1: 58:00

I love the support well and and where is? Let's let you know. Obviously there's a lot of streaming platforms and stuff and you guys can just, you know, search hawk and horse. But as far as learning a little bit more about this and maybe diving into some of your other, you know music and some stories. You've had a lot of interviews, you've been on a lot of podcasts. There's a rich history on your website. Why don't you tell people where they can go in and, uh, you know, learn more and as far as your website, and then also, where can people follow you and kind of learn more about your journey and some of the updates, or when singles are coming out and things of that nature?

Speaker 2: 58:30

Yeah, um, hawkinghorsecom, uh, is where you're going to find most info. Um, you know, I've got my store on there with t-shirts and coffee mugs and all that stuff, but I also have a blog that I keep up on there and I'll it's not all even about music. Sometimes I'll write about a history thing I think is interesting. Um, you know, sometimes I'm telling you about a new song coming out or whatever, but I do keep a blog up on there. Um, also, my instagram followings is a robust place you can hang out. Um, I have tons of content going on there all the time. Um, facebook is very active. Um, youtube actually is very strong and growing as well.

Speaker 2: 59:21

So I, I'm I'm pretty committed to being active on there as well. You can't be active everywhere. It's just like there's there's only one hawking horse, so it's only so much day. So, uh, yeah, so definitely, you know, follow me. Uh, youtube, instagram, uh, facebook, etc. Um, but, yeah, the apple will be on Apple Music, amazon, spotify, youtube Music, all the places. I just got done doing all the promo audio stuff for Amazon, because they have little intros to the album and little tidbits, which is kind of a cool feature of Amazon Music the album and little tidbits, which is kind of a cool feature of amazon music. You can find out more information, like about the song you're listening to or whatever. But, um, yeah, any of those places and you know I do have a newsletter where I I keep people up to date on that as well um, so hawkinghorsecom is is the place.

Speaker 1: 1:00:31

Yeah, and well, I've, I've signed up for that great information coming out, all the updates, um, you know, I was kind of curious too. As far as you know, I talked to a lot of my guests about the idea of legacy and I wanted to know obviously you know, you're you've written with uh and for uh, with other folks, but you know, with Hawk and Horse specifically, I was curious what is it that you're hoping that you're able to, uh, you know, basically share with your audience over the time? What is it, this legacy you hope that this musical project uh leaves for them? Um and uh. And also, you know, what are you hoping to maybe inspire as far as where they go and what they learn and whatever it may be there too.

Speaker 1: 1:01:14

And then also, just kind of on a personal setting too, how do you feel about your legacy and the things that you've produced over the years? And you know, how do you hope that those things are remembered? And and or is this something that you think about on a day-to-day or even a week-to-week or whatever, as far as what it is that you're output and that you're leaving behind, cause you have things that are going to be in a digital space that will always be able to have people come back to it. You know it's something that you've written that people can come back to and check out at any point in time. So, yeah, I'm always kind of curious about that with my guests and specifically people who are artists, like yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:01:48

Yeah, legacy wise, I think. I think Hawk and horse is part of. I think that was probably an inner yearning to work on the legacy a little bit Like I think part of it was. You know, I I'm proud of some of these love songs I've written and these silly songs over the years, but they're, they're fun, but legacy wise, you know I, I bet you that was an underlying, you know, reason that Hawk and Horse even came about. I, I think it was like I want to leave behind something a little more profound, artistically profound.

Speaker 2: 1:02:29

I work with a lot of you know I'm friends with david wright, who's a famous painter and he does a lot of frontier mountain man paintings and I've always looked at him as somebody who's got an iconic legacy for his work and I actually had coffee with him one time and I told him I was like what a privilege to like get to be a creative and get to make a living being a creative, like just using your, your, your god-given creative abilities and eking out a career in it. And and he, he's kind of been a mentor in that world a little bit, you know, and he's he's not like a musician but as he always tells me, he's like I'm only a flat artist, but so you know my music. I want to leave something there so people can go back and revisit these stories and they can access this. Um, you know, even after I'm gone, they can say who was Jedediah Smith and go find a song about him and get a history lesson in three minutes. You know, instead of having to read an entire book or whatever. You know, a song is a very easy way to get a history lesson.

Speaker 2: 1:03:57

And personally, I mean, yeah, I mean I just want to be known as a good husband and dad and and friend ultimately, and good husband and dad and friend ultimately, and somebody who you know was reliable, and you know it's. It's funny, it's when you, when you're thinking more on that level, it's just like it's amazing. What is an important? Suddenly, when you think about your legacy and it's it's not about you know all the things hanging on the wall, it's it's about you know all the things hanging on the wall, it's about you know the people in your life. So you know that's. So I guess yeah, that's my real ultimate legacy, and the relationships that Hawk and Horse has already given me has just been blowing my mind. I've made so many, you know, friends. I don't even. I don't call people fans, I mean, they're just friends, they're just, it's just another dude who's like me, who loves the same stuff, and that's, that's what is so refreshing about this. So I I don't have any ego.

Speaker 1: 1:05:07

It's great, man, you, I mean it's very, it's very true. Yeah, when people appreciate your listen, I mean it's nothing you haven't heard before. But you're an exceptional musician. You write wonderful songs. They're rich, uh, there's so many brilliant sounds and things that are that are put into it. The writing that you have, as far as your lyrics, are very, uh, you know, well thought out, man. They're just great, fun stories. I love every. Every song has something a little bit different to it and, uh, I, I've, I've just fallen in love with your music. I mean, I kind of it's been a couple of years now when I was first introduced to it and I was like, wow, man, this is really great, and I always wanted to chat with you. I'm glad we get this chance. Really appreciate you joining me. Thank you for sharing your talents with the world man.

Speaker 1: 1:05:51

Music is incredible and I can't wait to see and hopefully I feel like there's a. You and Clay need to perform somewhere together. I feel like there's a live version of Arkansas Mule. Clay, if you're listening, call up Andrew, get him over on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:06:08

Clay and Hockenhor Horse coming to Branson.

Speaker 1: 1:06:10

There you go, there you go. I'll be there with the cameraman to document this for everyone. No, I appreciate you coming on once again. Thank you so much and best of luck with everything. And once again, everybody, head on over to hawkandhorsecom. Go ahead and make your purchases and check out some of the other awesome albums you put together.

Speaker 2: 1:06:29

You know you've got a wealth of wonderful sounds there for people to check out hey, thanks so much for having me on and I'm also glad you made it out okay with the hurricane. I was a little concerned. It looks pretty bad down there so thank you listen.

Speaker 1: 1:06:44

Your albums were a very nice uh break. As we were like driving through the other day getting placed, my wife and I were listening to it. She's like I really like this song. Yeah, me too. It was a good little distraction of my crazy whirlwind around me.

Speaker 2: 1:06:58

Glad to help.

Speaker 1: 1:06:59

Glad to help. Indeed Indeed Well. Thank you, andrew. Once again, man, you have an awesome day.

Speaker 2: 1:07:04

You too, george See, ya Take care.