Speaker 1: 0:14

Hey everybody, welcome back to the son of a blitz podcast. I'm your host, George blitz, and guys, I just had a wonderful chat with Mark green. Mark Green is a former Navy SEAL. He has just put out the book Unsealed. This book is amazing. I highly suggest everyone go and check it out.

Speaker 1: 0:32

We talk a lot about transitions. It's kind of a theme of the book, too, of him getting out of being a Navy SEAL what's next in his life, and even before that, the transition of being on the trajectory of being a professional football player and then having a shoulder injury that changed that transition of going from having your father there to having your father pass away and what that's like, and then being the highs and then really some of the lows and how he was able to get through those and be here today still surviving after going through some very dark moments. This book is phenomenal. I absolutely love my time with Mark. He is such an amazing man. He's served this country as a Navy SEAL, but he's also served everyone by writing this book and being vulnerable and really telling his true, authentic story in a way that it can't help but move you and motivate you to become a better person and make sure you're looking out for your own tribe, your own brotherhood, sisterhood, family, looking out for those, because you know these are some invisible wounds that a lot of people have and we see the visible ones right, but those invisible ones, they can be lurking around and they can be devastating and we need to be able to look out for ourselves and our community and especially those who have served this great country and that you know we owe it to them. You know we talk a little bit about the 22 suicides a day by veterans, and that may be an underreported number, and we got to do everything we can to look after and continue to help those who have sacrificed all, and their families, as he talks about too. So, guys, I think you're going to enjoy this podcast. It was one of my favorite. Again, you guys go check it out.

Speaker 1: 2:20

Mark Green Unsealed. We will be giving away some of these books, so stay tuned for details on that. But without further ado, here is my podcast with Mark Green. Hey, mark, how are you doing today? Man? Doing great. George, how are you doing Fantastic? Thank you so much for joining me, man.

Speaker 1: 2:35

Now we got a lot to talk about. You have your debut book Unsealed. This is absolutely one of my favorite books I've read in a long time and you did such an amazing job with this and it was wonderful to kind of learn about you know, your journey and all the things you've gone through in your transitional moments. You have so much to share and teach with others here and I'm just super appreciative that you know we get a chance to chat with this and, you know, have our listeners get a chance to talk and you know, hear us talk about it. I kind of feel like the first thing we need to do is kind of bring it back to the beginning. Why don't you tell everyone a little bit about you know where you grew up and, uh, you know, maybe you kind of we can talk through. You know your your time and, uh, the injury that happened playing, uh, college football in that first. You know big transitional moment there.

Speaker 1: 3:19

But yeah, if you don't mind, kind of start us off beginning and you know little, one on one on on who you are and where you're from.

Speaker 2: 3:25

OK, well, first I want to thank you for having me on. We have a lot of things that tie us together, so doing this podcast is a great opportunity. So I want to start off by saying thank you for doing that. So I, my origin story, is I was an Air Force brat. So I was born in Anchorage, alaska, and consider myself a Buckeye from Ohio because the family was anchored in Ohio and then, you know, we would go Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines and then Okinawa, mainland, japan, and then finally settled back into Ohio in 1984 and stayed there until I joined the Navy in 96. But you know, great relationship with grandparents and extended family. So those relationships really kind of made me who I am today.

Speaker 2: 4:24

Just because there were so many men around and you know, grandfathers of that era, lots of wisdom, very stoic, and you know these are the rules and it was very rigid, but they were always around. And then I had a great father who was present around and then I had a great father who was who was present. So, um, yeah, those are my origin stories, but I got to, I got to really know the older generation because both my grandfathers were around and, um, they would tell tell stories, and I was enraptured by, uh, by them when they would talk, which is a rarity, right, um, yeah, but uh, so, yeah. So that's where it all started. So when I joined the military, uh, my grand, my paternal grandfather, served in the army in the korean war. So, with that, and then my father joined, the military was always an option. Um, wasn't in the forefront, but it was always kind of like, well, if, if this doesn't work, then I would love a military career.

Speaker 1: 5:28

Yeah, well, and that's, you know a lot of people. It's either one way or the other, right? I mean I know my dad grew up, you know, kind of an Air Force brat and he's like didn't want to go and have that kind of lifestyle and have a family in that, because it's so disjointed and you're moving around, you just never know. It's like you're always kind of off balance in some ways as a as the kid, and so that was something there. But you had, you know, you talk about too. You had some really strong male role models and you also had a very strong athletic lineage.

Speaker 1: 5:57

I mean, your grandfather played in the Negro league as a pitcher. You know your dad, uh, you know very strong athletic stuff and he was also talking to you and I mean you dedicated this book to him and he was, you know. I think he said that the quote is like son, make sure you do something a little bit better every day. And you kind of took that with your progression in sports too, because that was something that you were excelling at and you were playing football at a very high level and uh, kind of just walk us through that, because that was something that it looked like. For a while, your trajectory might have been into that professional football realm, correct?

Speaker 2: 6:29

yeah, yeah. So you know we didn't grow up wealthy and my dad was like we're, you're going to college, but you know you only have a couple options it's through sports or through sports, so, uh. So at nine, uh played for the Mad River Tomahawks in Dayton, ohio. I was in fourth grade and I was getting ready to go to my first practice and my dad looks down and he's like hey, um, we don't, greens, don't quit Once we start something. Um, your team's relying on you. So if you're on the bench or if you're starting, you know, once you start something, you're not quitting it. And I was like, yeah, yeah, pop. And he stops me, kneels down, looks me straight in the eyes Like I don't think you understand what I just said. Once you start something, you're not, you don't quit. I was like, okay, yes, sir, and that was the catalyst for everything that happened in my life afterwards.

Speaker 2: 7:31

Um, so I played um, I was a big kid, big fast kid. So, uh, I progressed pretty well. And then I decided to play quarterback and I was progressing really well. And then um went to play at miami of ohio and kent state. Um, but the year before I went to play at miami, I got to work out with randall cunningham who back in the day, you know he was the man, yeah, yeah, he was the man, yeah he started off one.

Speaker 2: 7:59

He was one of the few black quarterbacks with the worn moon right, um, but he was prolific. You know who's this guy who's running around all over the place and he can then throw the ball 60 or 70 yards. So I got to work with him and he just said, okay, you have all the raw talent, but you don't know what you're doing. So I stuffed myself in his pocket for the the week that I was around him and he just taught me football. And it really was like, okay, okay, I get it. And then went to Miami of Ohio and had a great coaching staff and they taught me football for the first time. So, um, in high school the coaching staff is pretty limited, a lot, um, so I never actually learned how to play football.

Speaker 2: 8:43

And one day they took the red shirts and said, okay, here's what we're going to do, mark, you're going to drop back, you're going to put the guy in motion, which is going to freeze the corner, and you're going to do play action, which is going to freeze the linebacker, and then the play is going to open up right over here and you're going to do a 7-step drop. And I was just like, why are you telling me this? But he said, and this is the football play. I was like, okay, so, george, I dropped back, did everything you said, and right and right, where he said it was was this big open field where, where I was, uh, where the receiver was going to be, and I was so shocked by it because I just learned football in that moment. I've been playing since I was nine and at 18, I was just like I just learned football.

Speaker 2: 9:30

So I got sacked because I froze there, because I hit it, hit me, that's like swam, yeah, holy football you know. And a guy named Mark Staten just cleaned my clock. But, uh, but I learned, I learned football at that moment. So I was like, okay, I get it now. Um, and then I went to Kent state, uh, transferred to Kent state and just the coaching staff was different, the, the atmospherics were different, um, and I wasn't thriving at the same level, but I was still progressing, um. But then took a really horrific shoulder injury after a touchdown. The guy was getting yelled at by the coaching staff. So he's like, well, I'm going to go hit that kid who's embarrassed me and wasn't paying attention, and hit me square in my shoulder from the back and completely destroyed my throwing shoulder.

Speaker 2: 10:24

And this is after the play this is no play going on, right this is just his retaliation of anger, and frustration, right yep, and hit me right in the shoulder and I saw the video of it later and you could tell that shoulder was done um, did you have any immediate repairs?

Speaker 1: 10:42

because I know later on and you know we'll talk about it too you had some shoulder surgeries, um, before you you, you left your time in the seals. But what was that then? Is it, was it just you were in pain and you couldn't throw, or is it? Were you actually having a surgery and it was like you were sidelined, and then you know how did that, how was it? You knew that. Was it in that, that, in that time and sense?

Speaker 2: 11:03

for you know, college football I couldn't lift my arm um past shoulder height, and so I went to the doc and he's like, okay, this thing's gonna heal up in a couple years or we can, you know, cut you open from basically your top of your shoulder down to your rib cage, do the repair and you might get stuff back. But it's like this thing will heal, it's just it's just torn up pretty good right now. So I was like you know what I don't want? I don't want to have a major surgery at such a young age. I was like you know, I'll just go ahead. Football career is over, I get it. Um.

Speaker 2: 11:40

And then my friend jeff was in the room with me. He's like, mark, don't worry about it, we're gonna go be navy seals next. And I was like what are you? And then my friend Jeff was in the room with me. He's like, mark, don't worry about it, we're going to go be Navy SEALs next. And I was like what are you talking about? And he showed me this video. Be someone special, it's on VHS, yeah, vhs.

Speaker 2: 11:55

Yeah, beta was just, you know, phased out. So VHS, and he showed me this video and I was just like, oh. And I was absolutely like. I was like, okay, this is, this is this is weird, but I love it. And the attrition rate at 80% even just was like, okay, I get to be somebody special. My mom had already said son, you're going to be great one day. And I was like this is it so? Um, but at the same time I was supposed to not quit because I started college, right. So I was just kind of going through the motions and, um, football don't longer an option. So you know, I eventually flunked out of college and was, uh, working at blockbuster video. And one day, two consecutive days it started a friend of mine, jason, who I went to high school with, came into the store and looked at me and I was embarrassed because I was working at Blockbuster. And he's like what are you doing working at Blockbuster? You were supposed to be X, y and Z. You were supposed to do all this great stuff. And it was clear it was come on, man. Um. So jason left in the next day.

Speaker 2: 13:10

Some gentleman, do you remember that movie clerks? Yeah, yeah, okay, remember uh, the scene where this guy comes up with something obscure do you remember this one scene about this one movie? And the guy's like yeah, I know that movie. Well, I was that guy. So this gentleman walks in and says uh, he looked like morris day and he's like in a pimp suit and everything. So he walks up and says hey, man, do you know this movie about this one girl? She turns into an alien. This just starts eating dudes. I was just like. And he's like yeah, yeah, it's uh speckies. And I'm just like sir, do you mean species?

Speaker 2: 13:44

he's like yeah so at that point I was like I can't, I can't name tag off so I joined the navy.

Speaker 2: 13:56

The next day I went down to the recruiter's office and said, okay, I'm going to be a seal, and what do I need to do? And they happily signed me up. That was in June and four weeks later, on July 17th, I was in Great Lakes, first day of boot camp. And even though boot camp Navy boot camp wasn't hard per se, it was still a transition point. So you know, you're getting yelled at, which in sports you're getting yelled at all the time. But it was, uh, it was. It was a challenge for the first couple of days, um, but a week later we get to explore Navy jobs and the SEAL motivator came in and was like all right, you know, here's a video I want you to watch. And it had been years five years since I'd seen the first time, I'd seen the Be Someone Special video. I had to watch it a thousand times, but when I watched it again, the same inferno that was sparked back then lit up again and I was like, okay, this is what we're doing. And um took the test the first time.

Speaker 2: 15:07

And Jordan, I'd never done pull-ups before. I was a big, strong kid. I was like how hard can pull-ups be? So I did the swim. Uh, pushups are fine, setups are fine. I jump up on that bar and I get three of the ugliest pull-ups anybody's ever seen. And, um, it was a good wake-up call because I was like I'm not ready. I'm not ready for what I'm here to do, so every night, um, I would sneak in after lights out. I would sneak into the bathroom and, uh, just practice pull-ups because I was on a timeline now, because I had you were wrapping. This was like metal cutting, like this wasn't.

Speaker 1: 15:44

It wasn't a pull-ups because I was on a timeline now Cause I had four. You were wrapping. This was like metal cutting, Like this wasn't. It wasn't a pull-up bar you had to like wrap it with towels to make sure, and you were doing this in the dead of nights and no one else knew. But you had a time where you had to go and then it was 10 pull-ups you had to complete in perfect form. Was it or eight or something?

Speaker 2: 16:00

It it was eight, but the goal was to get from where I was to 10.

Speaker 1: 16:03

So how long did you have to work on that? Four weeks, okay, four weeks.

Speaker 2: 16:06

Got it, yeah, so each night and you know I didn't put it together but each night, uh, if a student gets up, you have somebody on watch and they would say student got up at 10 o'clock and was in the bat and so there was a log of it. So um, so of it, so um, so week, the second test is coming up, so I got up to 10, but I'm like, well, I'm at 10, but this is in a vacuum, I haven't done all the other stuff.

Speaker 1: 16:34

So right before, yeah, because you have to do all the other tests. Yeah yeah leading up to that right yeah, your body's gonna be fatigued, right yep you know everything's to failure.

Speaker 2: 16:41

So you have to to do your pushups until you can't do anymore. So I'm like I got 10, but you know, I did the math in my head. I was like eight's going to be hard. But you know, I took a break the day before and repeat so did the swim, got better on the swim, did better on pushups, did better on, did better on everything. And then I got to the pull-ups and one, two, three, four strong, right Five. I'm like yeah, this is a five. It's not as pretty, but I still got it.

Speaker 2: 17:11

Six, seven, and then it came to eight and I don't know to this day if I would have gotten eight, but I wasn't going to risk it. So I was 90% there, right and like my chin, the bars here. So I was 90% there right and like my chin, the bars here, my chin is like two inches from getting number eight. And somebody got the instructor's attention. It's like hey. And the instructor looked over and in that second I was like, okay, morals be damned, I'm either gonna maybe get this next one or, if I pull my chin up, I'm definitely gonna get it. So I did the little up and pulled myself up and at that same as I pulled up, he looked at me and our eyes were like he's like I know you just cheated and I'm like I know that you know, but I'm never going to admit it. So, um, because you had another guy.

Speaker 2: 18:00

there's another guy who called out hey, he's like counting, so he's he so he's, he's like he's done it, and then, because he was behind me, so he didn't see okay, gotcha, now I see the room, I see it. So he didn't see. He didn't see the uh, the extracurriculars that I took, the extra measures that I took. So he counted out eight and the instructor's like you bastard, and but I was like who cares, I did eight, he called it.

Speaker 2: 18:23

Yep, he called it so I actually, uh, so I didn't get number nine, but I knew I passed right, yep. And he's like don't get cocky because you still have the run to do. But I was like I was a runner so yeah, um, so I smoked the run and he pulls me over. He's like, hey, green, look man, those are the ugliest pull-ups I've ever seen and I know what happened. He's like but your, your instructors, had come in and said, hey, this kid's been going, he sneaks out and he just goes and does pull-ups, so like he's been working his balls off. Yeah, to get eight pull-ups. And you know, the instructor staff was like, okay, I can respect that.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Yeah, that counts for a lot, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:07

Instructor staff was like okay, I can respect that. Yeah, that counts for a lot, yeah, yeah. So he's like all right, green, just go down to a school, work on your pull-ups. And when you get to buds, just work on your pull-ups.

Speaker 1: 19:15

I was like yes, sir because you're gonna have to do that all again in buds right, and was it still? Eight, or was it more than?

Speaker 2: 19:20

well, I mean it was, it was still eight, that was the minimum. But you know you have to go, but you have buds, yeah. So I took the test again in a school, but I I'd gotten through that mental block so the pull-ups were no longer an issue. So the next time I took it, I think I did like 15 pull-ups or something like that it was. It was easy. So then when I got to buds, same thing. But the interesting thing about buds was the second. I crossed the quarter deck and I was at buds. That image of my dad when I was at nine it's like hey, we don't quit stuff around here. So once I got there, quitting wasn't an option yeah so no matter what.

Speaker 2: 20:02

So I say, well, you can't quit now that you're here. And so um got there and I wasn't prepared for what buds was, because you're never in seal shape, you just right, you're, you're in shape, but what you're getting ready to get into um, so I struggled the first couple of weeks and when I'm struggling I just ask questions because I need to make it fit in ways that I learn. So I was like instructor, how do I do more pull-ups? Or how do I do more push-ups, how do I get better? Like Green, please shut up, you're doing fine and BUDS is hard and this just sucks, but you're fine.

Speaker 2: 20:37

And I didn't believe him. And one day we were doing a conditioning run. And one day we were doing a conditioning run and it was hot that day and I had a heat injury and I had to go to the infirmary. So people fake injuries all the time. So they gave me, they took, a thermometer. So instead of doing under the tongue thermometer like we're going to make this guy work for it. So they gave me the other temperature reading and I didn't move a muscle and they're like Whoa, this kid's fighting it I think this kid might be hurt.

Speaker 2: 21:13

So, um, so they gave me 24 hours off. The instructor staff got in trouble because they didn't give us some water and instructor get goes like all right, green, Every time I see you you're going to be wet inside and out. And I was like he's like all right, green, every time I see you you're gonna be wet inside and out. I was like he's like that means every time I see you you're gonna empty your canteen and then you're gonna go get the ocean yeah, I was like all right, that's fair.

Speaker 2: 21:32

Um, but senior chief mink kept. He was just one of those guys who was just kind of in the background always watching. So it's like green, get over here. I was like yes, sir, he's. And he looked around and said hey, everybody, I give this bullfrog to. He graduates from buds. And he's like if you ever tell anybody I gave this to you, I'm gonna deny it.

Speaker 1: 21:58

So he looks around again, he slips me the bullfrogs, like get out of here and for those who don't know, that's like bullfrog is a really high end sunscreen at the time.

Speaker 2: 22:06

Yeah, so yeah yeah, so he gave me the bullfrog and for some reason that was the last push. That I need is like senior chief mink, who was a plank owner at dev group. He's like you got what it takes.

Speaker 2: 22:19

I got faith in you, so you're good and and from then on I was like, okay, so I know I'm not going to quit. Physically and mentally I'm good. So now, what am I doing? I'm working out on in San Diego with my buddies on the beach. So then it just became how do I, how do I break this thing up into the chunks that I could manage, right?

Speaker 2: 22:44

So, um, a lot of people mistake. They take buds in the six month entirety, right? They're like, oh man, I can't do this for six months, or I can't do this for however long. And I was just like, well, wait a second Every four hours, my stomach starts growling. And then soon after that, we break for lunch or break for chat. I was like, well, I can do anything for four hours, and once my stomach starts growling, this stuff's almost over. So then, instead of breaking up into six months or a day at a time, it's just four hour increments, which I was like, well, I can do anything four hours at a time. So then it was the manageable. It was manageable, yeah. And so then I just had a great time and you push past all your limits all the time. And the cool thing about buds is it's a selection course, so you don't you're not learning a whole lot. It's just hey, do you have what it takes to earn the right to become a seal? And so turns out that I did, and I was able to thrive in that environment and at the end of it, 166 of us started and 18 of us graduated. So you know, I had earned the right to go on to the next level of trying to become a SEAL. So it was an awesome experience.

Speaker 2: 24:04

But one of the things that was kind of a life changer was when I was going through Hell Week. It's 120 hours, starts on Sunday, ends on Friday, and they schedule three hours of sleep. But after it was over, I looked at one of my instructors. Like, hey, instructor, I'm having a rough, I'm trying to figure something out. He's like, yeah, green, what's up? I was like I don't feel any different. I was like I thought I was going to open up my shirt. There's going to be an S on it, the cape's going to appear and I can just, you know, fly around all over the place. He's like it's like yeah. And he's like well, buds is not for you. Like whatever life brought, whatever your life looked like before you've been a seal, your whole life. Buds is to weed out the people who aren't seals, right? I was like huh, okay, so I've always been this awesome, a this what?

Speaker 2: 24:58

for whatever reason, this is what I was supposed to do, and from then on, it's just like these little, these small points in time that were a catalyst for staying motivated and to get to the next step, and that's pretty much been the story of my life. Is that right? When I needed it, somebody showed up. It was like you're on, you're stalling a little bit, but, um, you're on the right path. So you know, keep going.

Speaker 1: 25:37

You know, you talked about a story, too, where it was one of these moments that was kind of a catalyst of uh, you finally understood when someone what it means to like be true to your word.

Speaker 2: 25:47

And.

Speaker 1: 25:48

I was wondering and forgive me for the timeline, cause I can't really remember Was that during hell week where you guys had done this race? And then, if you can kind of set that up I know you know what I'm talking about but if you could talk about that story too, because that was a very pivotal moment where you kind of were like aha, I get this to this other level. So, yeah, it was that during hell week.

Speaker 2: 26:09

And then if you, if it wasn't, even if you can just pivot into that, I'd love to hear yeah, so Thursday of hell week you do what's called around the world and it takes about 12 hours. And you know, we were boat crew number one biggest strongest guys. And we were boat crew number one biggest strongest guys and we were just getting our butts kicked by everybody. So the instructors are like what in the hell is going on? You are, you are our guys Right, you guys are getting your butts kicked. So he's like all right, if you guys went around the world, then you guys get to sleep until the last boat crew comes in. We're just like all right.

Speaker 2: 26:42

So we took off, right, that's all we needed. And we were beating everybody. And we finish up and I'm spooning up with a guy named Tim, six foot four, 250 pounds of heat. You know this dude is, he was just a furnace, right. And so we're all snuggled up under the boat and I hear instructor Gek is like Green, get over here. And bad word and bad word, bad word, bad. So I get up and, uh, he's like hey, what's the rule? You know, get it wet inside and out. And it was the luke skywalker, darth vader moment, right. So I look at the water and I look at instructor gecka. Look back at the water. Look at him again. I was like, absolutely not. He's like what did you just say? And I went into a full-blown temper tantrum, like stomping my feet. Like you told me that we get to sleep and damn it, I'm going to sleep. And the instructor sounds like, okay, I've never seen this before. What's what's happening? So the chief of the everyone starts coming in.

Speaker 2: 27:44

Yeah, yeah, they're like what in the world's going on? And and chief shows up, and and you know I was like she shows up here, you've done everything wrong. He's like what, green, what the hell's going on around here? And again I was like well, he told me I get to go to sleep, and I'm not. He's like I was asleep and he woke me up, something to something to that effect. And Chief was like well, mike, is that what you told him? I was like yeah, chief, that's what I told him. He was like well, hey, man, this is the SEAL team. We keep our word around here. Green, go back to bed. And in the moment, you know, I hadn't slept for days. And then he's just like I was like well, we keep our word around here. That means for days. And then he's just like I was like well, we keep our word around here that means something, but in the meantime we're like tab all the way back.

Speaker 2: 28:31

Save me a spot, yeah but you know, that was such a great moment because I learned what the teams were all about like in the midst of all the chaos, of whatever you're doing, there's a code and honor around here that you keep your word around here no matter what. And I was like, okay, this is the I'm in the right place because it aligns with my morals and, and you know, you're you're going to combat, but you know you gotta keep your word around here. And that was such a great lesson learned from. It went from hey, you're disobeying what the instructor said, but what's even more important is that he gave you his word and we're at the point of breaking that and we can't have that happen. So I was just like, okay, yeah, all right, I'm in the right spot.

Speaker 1: 29:22

Back to cuddle time, yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:23

Yeah, more importantly, yeah, yeah, stay warm, get some sleep. Much more importantly was Tim was back there just waiting for me. It was awesome.

Speaker 1: 29:34

Best time of sleep I've ever gotten. You mentioned that I can only imagine, especially after not having much. So you get done with buds, and then you said that there's like that next level before you then become a seal. Walk me through that, Like okay, you're out of buds. And then what happens next?

Speaker 2: 29:52

So you go to what's called seal qualification training. So it's six months but you're now you're, you've earned the right right. You physically and mentally made it through the selection process and now it's time to learn your actual job. So it's not as physically demanding as as buds was, but mentally like, okay, you, by the time you get out of here, you have to be able, you're going to be able to show up in the platoon and at least know what the heck you're doing. So, um, um, when that happened, you know it's real now.

Speaker 2: 30:28

So you're working with other seals and they're like, if you don't make the cut, you know it's because you didn't have the attributes that you needed and I've refused to work with you. So, um, getting through that was a big deal. But so six months long and you're really learning about um, becoming a seal. And it was. It was challenging but it was, it was fun and you know you're learning at a really high level and everything that you learned in buds all the attributes you need for buds directly translates to what you're learning in SQT, which then translates to what you're going to do in a platoon, which translated which you're going to do down range Right. So, um, but yeah, it was a, it was a fantastic experience.

Speaker 1: 31:10

Dude. So then you, you, you qualify, you pass, you're officially in, and then what does that look like? Cause, then you, you know there's times you went on and in and around your time too, and then when you're going overseas. So if you wouldn't mind, maybe just taking a minute too and kind of setting that up, because I think that it, you know, plays a big part too in a different level of transitions later on in your life of what you're going on in your family there too um, so, um, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:46

So you're trying to manage everything right and then you feel like you're falling behind and then all of a sudden you throw kids on the way and you're still having to learn and then you're looking forward to deploying for the first time. So all of that stuff comes in and you still you know you still have to, you have to figure it out and you have to manage it. And then you have to try to be great at everything. You know mainly your job, but for me, I took that challenge. I was like, okay, I need to be a great SEAL, I need to be a great husband, I need to be a great father, and you know you have to make sacrifices at that point. So instead of you know working, you know staying after hours and connecting with the guys, like, hey guys, my daughter's got, I got a kid to take care of. And the guys were like, hey man, I get it.

Speaker 2: 32:49

Seal teams are very supportive in that if you're not doing something productive at work, be away from work. So that really gave me some time to adjust to one being a parent to a daughter, and one of my favorite moments with my daughter was when she was first born. I thought that say, oh my God, this is just this wonderful experience, this beautiful kid, right. So she shows up and I'm just like, oh God, put it back. You know, just an atrocious looking thing, but you know, a couple of hours later she was beautiful, right, right, right, clean it up Right.

Speaker 2: 33:25

Yeah. So we go home and then I all of a sudden you realize you're not useful in this situation, because she doesn't need you. Um, she needs your mom for everything, and every time you try to pick her up you have this beard and it's scruffy and you know it scratches her. So for about two months I was just kind of like, well, this sucks because, um, this parenting thing's not.

Speaker 1: 33:48

I'm not doing anything. Yeah, you didn't have an emotional connection.

Speaker 2: 33:51

Right, right. So, um, one day I walked in the door and, even though she didn't respond, every time I'd come in, I'd say hey, riley. And uh, she either wouldn't pay attention or she'd look at me it's like yeah, whatever. But one day, I think she was two months old, two or three months old, and I walked in the door and said, hey, riley. And she looked at me and smiled and I was like, oh, she must have to fart or something. But so, uh, I needed to go back out to the car, came back and did the same thing and said, hey, riley. And she looked at me again and smiled. I was like wait a second. So I did it the third time and she looked at me again and smiled and I was like she knows who I am. And that's when the floodgates open. I was just like she's amazing, she's beautiful, she's wonderful.

Speaker 2: 34:37

You know all the things that you expect to be as a parent. Once the connection was made, it was just like best thing ever was made. It was just like best thing ever. Yeah, so, but then then it became really challenging to focus so much on your seal job, because you have this even more important job to do at home, um, so I, you know I learned a lot, but that was a big transition point too, because you know you have to, you know, meet expectations in two different places that are equally important. Sure, you know you're so, um, but it was, it was great, and I had four kids and each, each experience was the same. Um, just seeing how atrocious they look at first and then, but then how great they are, you know, once life happens, happens.

Speaker 1: 35:25

So, yeah, yeah, they were great so when, when you were talking about those times where you're you you know, at the daytime you're, you're in training like are there particular set hours that you're here on base and then you're going home, or I mean, maybe you're still living on base with the family, but the idea of like that separation too, or is there multiple days you're here training and then you're going there? Like what does that look like before that first deployment, as far as like that kind of transitional timeline of balancing that?

Speaker 2: 35:55

Well, they set it up. It's pretty much set up like a workup. So you're some days you're training local and then some days for really important blocks like land warfare or something. You're you go out to the desert for three weeks so you don't have any contact at home. So diving was local, some of the shooting stuff was local, but then we would go out to the mountains and do some shooting stuff and then we got to the desert to do land warfare. So they really did a great job of setting it up, as if this is what your workup is going to look like.

Speaker 2: 36:24

You're, you're going to be home sometimes and then you're going to be away for weeks at a time or months at a time. So you know, you just had to figure out. So they usually started off at eight o'clock, seven thirty eight o'clock. You do your two hour PT in the morning and then you get after learning. You know your job, but it was really cool because some of the a lot of things you were doing I was a poor kid from Ohio.

Speaker 2: 36:48

You know, all of a sudden you're you're learning special operations, you know at the highest level and you're like, wow, this is, this is awesome and uh. But then you know you got home exhausted but then you're energized when you see your kid Right and yeah, so, um, but you, you never really get a break. So after a couple of months you're like six months of training, like, ooh, all right, I've learned. I've learned my seal stuff and I'm kind of pretty good as a dad. And then the workup starts and it's just ramps up higher. So, um, but you get the basics. It's really just you learn the basics and if something happened, you are effective in a platoon on the battlefield. But you know you're the last resort because you know the least yeah, yeah, when, when?

Speaker 1: 37:38

but prior to you, that first deployment, um, and and I'm just trying to thread this timeline too was that when you were approached and, quote unquote, invited to sniper school, or was this after a series of deployments and then you came back and then that opportunity arose?

Speaker 2: 37:54

No, this is after my first deployment.

Speaker 1: 37:56

Okay, so then, where was your first deployment?

Speaker 2: 37:58

We went to the Pacific and you know, in the Pacific theater they still have Vietnam era, world War II era stuff that they have to cover in that region to make sure that the peace is kept. So we would do, you know, exercise, but we're always prepping, for a phone call happens and you know you guys got to go to work. So that was a learning experience. Unfortunately, there weren't a whole lot of opportunities to fight back then, so we did the mission that was available and I came home and was going through my gear and I was like okay, professional development, you go to pro dev. They give you about six months to go to schools and learn another skill set and just to reconnect with your family because you've been away for six months.

Speaker 2: 38:47

Sure, so I'm walking on the grinder, minding my own business, happy as I could be, and I hear some voice say, hey, what are you doing? And me I was like hey, I just got back from deployment, just hang it out. He's like go, pack your stuff, you're going to sniper school. I like like sniper school, sniper school, like marine corps, seal sniper school. And he's like pack your stuff. We have one body and you're it. And sniper school starts today and it's a 10-week course, so then I have to say hey, got some bad news at the home front. Like I'm going to sniper school, can only imagine how that went for you, oh my goodness.

Speaker 1: 39:26

Which is the life that you signed up for but it still doesn't make it easy Right.

Speaker 2: 39:31

Right, right, so, um, so sniper school was awful. It's a 10 week stress course and it sucks, but you know the sniper job is unique. Yeah, you know, you do everything as a team. You 16 minutes. You're rolling deep in the 16 man platoon. Then all of a sudden you're like, hey, it's great, you have this skill set of being, you know um direct action guy. But now we're gonna have to train you to go.

Speaker 2: 40:01

You and your snapper buddy are gonna have to go in deep behind enemy lines, do some observations and most likely do some shooting. But the shooting part is probably the last thing, the last resort, you know. So it's a 10-week stress course and, like I said, it sucks, but you really learn the skill set. But you really learn the skill set. The art of sniping is completely different skill set and it's got to be as challenging as it is, because you know when you get dropped off, you have to be your own fighting force. You have to know the radios, you have to know the weapon systems, you have to know land navigation. And then let's say you have to take a shot. You also have to know how to you only get one shot usually. Yeah, so you're, you know they're training you like hey, dude, this guy's 500, 800 yards away, what's the wind doing? What's this wind?

Speaker 1: 40:58

drift. What's the ballistics?

Speaker 2: 40:59

yeah, all of it, yeah, yeah so it's got to be as as arduous as it is, because it's a skill set that you know you could change the tone of a battle with well-placed shots, yeah. Or getting deep behind enemy lines where you're not expected getting intel that you know it's hard to get and it's in real time. So the understanding of that was was clear. But again, the way I work, I was like I don't understand this very important job that I now have to do. So I bugged the crap out of the instructor staff and, like before in buzzer, like green, just go away. So it was basically the same way. I was like so how do I take this shot, or how do I do this, or how do I get better at this? Because the way I process things, like what's my deficiency and how do I close that gap, so it was like how do I do this better? How I do? And I was just bugging the instructor staff and finally like go away. That's an order. I was order but made it through the shooting portion but did not make it through the stalking portion, which is the sneaking around stuff, which is, you know, really important and the reason I didn't do well on that one, because it was. They weren't. They didn't teach you what to do. They was like here's how you make your gun and here's the target. Do all these different skill sets and you're graded for grades the next day. And I didn't, I didn't understand the concept of it. So you know, for me, learning that way just I just don't learn very well that way.

Speaker 2: 42:41

But the second time I went through graduated and it was fine. But the best gift that I was ever given was I got to go teach sniper school for a year and that was awesome, because everything I didn't, all the lessons I've learned that I had as a student that I was like man. I wish this could be better. That taught a completely different on the East Coast and it was hey, we're going to teach you step by step as if you're a child, and then we're going to let you go and then you're going to start getting graded. So I just spent all the time with my students. I answered every question, be it two in the morning or after hours. It was like you got a question and I'm here. After hours. It was like you got a question and I'm here, and the coolest thing was for my students to fire me. So it was.

Speaker 2: 43:32

You're very hands-on for the first probably four or five weeks, and then they're starting to figure it out. And then you get on the stalking field and then they're in their infancy again. But one day the light bulb comes on, you can tell when it comes on. And one day the light bulb comes on, you can tell when it comes on. And one day they just look at you and say, hey, mark, I got it. Best day ever because I've just been fired, because I've done my job well enough for them to say Mark, you've done what you're supposed to do. Teach me this thing. Now I need to take the next step and learn on my own. So they fired me and it was the best day ever.

Speaker 1: 44:11

To watch the light bulb come on, uh, was so rewarding well, and you talk about, too, the, the idea of like leadership and when you became an officer and then having your platoon and how, that that most important thing is like when people stop asking questions and they stop coming to you, then that's when you failed as a leader, because if you can be there, but that other advancement of being a leader is whenever they don't need it anymore because you've imparted your knowledge and that they're picking it up on their own or they're taking that to that next level of whatever it is they're doing on their trajectory.

Speaker 1: 44:42

But I think that's a huge you know, you, you those kinds of examples that you talked about at leadership. And I want to go back into your idea of like when, or you know your, what you talk about in the book of when you were trying to then apply to you and wanting to see you move forward, and that was a very uh, there were some big challenges and you kind of uh, you figured out a way to work around that. And if, uh, you know, you know, just to kind of lay it out there too, at first you had someone had graded you on part of the scoring system and the guy who was reviewing it had said I didn't put this grade, I put a 10. Why is it saying eight? So someone had gone in and changed your grading criteria in order to try to prevent you from making that next step. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 45:34

Yeah, yeah, and it was. It was a black chief, and you know everybody who had supported me I mean, let's not kid around there. There are very few black seals, right? Not because not because it's not inclusive, it's just, you know, it's culturally. You know you can't take a kid who's never seen a pool before, let alone the ocean, and say, hey, I know you never swam before, but you know you're next, you're gonna do two mile swims in the ocean with sharks and stuff, and just culturally it didn't fit. Hey, I'll go to the Army or I'll go to the Marines or go to the Air Force, but to drop a black kid into that environment, it's not that the capability is not there, it's just the exposure to the environment's not there.

Speaker 2: 46:31

So, um, but everybody in the SEAL teams was so supportive so when they heard that I was going to apply to be an officer, they were, hey, how can I help? Yeah, and I was like this is awesome. So, um, the gentleman who I had my board with, who did my interviews, you know they all gave me 10 out of 10. It's like, hey, mark, you did a great job. So then you take it to the admin person who's not from the SEAL community and he just had some animosity, smiled to my face.

Speaker 2: 47:03

But then you know, package was all done and it was time to submit, and I go to the chief and I didn't know, I didn't know that Rosie gave me a 10, but you have to take it back to your interviewers and they have to review it, right? So you know, if I hadn't taken it back to Rosie, the commander who had written it, and he hadn't picked it up, he's like, if I didn't, if you didn't bring this back to me and I didn't review it, it would have gone up as an eight out of 10. And they would have said, yeah, he's not qualified. So, and the chief knew that that one eight would torpedo my whole officer career.

Speaker 1: 47:46

Well, and that wasn't even the only setback. Then there was the idea of sending the package in for official review. And was that the same chief who was a part of that is a different person, right.

Speaker 2: 47:58

I was in San Diego for that event. But then I was in Virginia, here at the sniper school and meeting with the guy there. I just didn't have a good feeling and I was like, hey, sir, you know, ocs package is coming up and I need you to mail this out for me. And there was something about that, what I'd learned from my other experience. I'm like something's just not quite right. So I would go in every couple of weeks and, hey, hey, sir, did you mail off the package? Oh, green, yeah, we've got plenty of time. But he would not let me access my package. So he was on leave and I went to the other admin and said, hey, I need to put something in my package. He grabbed it for me, so I made a copy of it, the entire thing, put the original back and mailed off the copy in time so I get my package sent off.

Speaker 2: 48:56

And he comes back from leave. And I was like, hey, sir, I need to, did you get my package sent off? And he's like, oh man, I missed the date. I was on leave. And I was like, yeah, I figured.

Speaker 2: 49:08

So I made a copy of the package and mailed it off and it was received on time and instead of him being like, oh man, great for taking care of your own career, he was like, how like? He was mad because I went around his back and did his job for him and then called him out on it. And you know, he was pissed and I was so shocked that there were people out there who went out of their way to torpedo your career and make sure that you don't succeed. And the old master chief had said's like hey, mark, be careful when you go to be an officer, because it's a different set of rules. So I thought it would be from my officer peers and it was not that, it was people who were supposed to look out for me and they chose to torpedo me twice. Well, it was amazing.

Speaker 1: 50:08

You know that just what you had to overcome to be able to the internal struggles of of this organization that you would thought was this you know total, you know brotherhood and this family too, to have that from the inside, I'm sure it must've been, uh, very painful, but it it also, it seems like the way that you have always adapted, overcome. You just kind of realized, okay, this is what I have to do to get this shit plugged in and make sure it's turned in on time and your own accountability of yourself and, um, I was wondering, is he do you think that he was more pissed that you kind of jumped the shark there and kind of went over his head, or do you think that he did not want you to succeed?

Speaker 2: 50:48

he did. He definitely didn't want me to succeed. Got it, got it. But the the redeeming part of it. It was not internal to the seal teams, yep, it was somebody who was an outsider for life a better term, so it was like. It was like at least my brothers in the SEAL teams didn't stop this from happening.

Speaker 1: 51:08

Yeah, yeah, well, and there was a couple times in in in your book that you talk about where there is almost a stop of your life. There's like two crazy I mean near-death experiences, when in that I mean they're nuts, and I I'd love for you to maybe just touch on on those two, um, because, you know it, they were monumental and I don't know if there is a lot of men who could have survived what you survived, not just once, but twice. So if you can maybe talk about the, the, the helicopter trip and what happened with that, that first one and and what you know, kind of, you can maybe set that up. You know, I don't want to spend too long on it because I I want people to dive in, but I think it's really they're just fascinating stories, if you don't mind.

Speaker 2: 51:53

Yeah. So it was our first platoon and we were doing visit, board search and seizure, vbss. And uh, you can do it from the water, from a boat, or you can do it from a helicopter. And we were doing it from the helicopter and you know, everything was going at 100 miles an hour in my head because it was all new and gentleman walks in. He's like, hey, I'm the pilot of hs2, I'm the best pilot in the squadron, I'm going to take care of you guys. So I'm like okay, I mean I got the best.

Speaker 2: 52:24

Yeah, I got maverick in the helicopter, you know so, um, so we do a crawl walk run, which would mean, hey, we meet the pilots, we do a walk through and then we do it for real, but it's like during the daytime and like it was lake pacifica that day. So during the daytime we did the first run. I mean it was, everything was picture perfect, um. So I was like, okay, this is that, that was awesome, the pilot's as advertised, and let's do this at night. So we get all our gear ready for the night.

Speaker 2: 52:55

But then the sea state starts to turn up and we were right on the verge of for safety. For safety reasons, we weren't going to be able to do it, but we were just inside the threshold. So we loaded up and took off and I could see why the pilot was nervous on the platform, because you have to put eight dudes on, basically an 8x10 space, because there are cranes going everywhere and the ship's doing like this and they have to maintain station and the ship. So I I get it. It was a. It was a tough platform and all at night all at night, right.

Speaker 2: 53:32

And so the pilots come in at the first. Eight guys go down and I'm looking at the pilot and he's like white knuckled on this thing, literally you good. And so we get up, we get on station and six guys go down the rope and the air crewman says all right, so we have two more. The pilot thought he said no more. And seventh guy goes down. And I'm going down full speed and all of a sudden the helicopter's taken off. No, maverick, no, yeah, I'm just like where's the ship going? So I'm going out full speed and I, you know, your hands are your brakes right. So I get down to the. I may have six inches of rope left Right. So I'm trying to climb up so I can do my. They taught us how to stand on a rope when we were buds, so I was trying to do my rope, stand and look up, and I don't know if a gust of wind hit the helicopter or what happened, but this big whip in the lines coming down and I'm looking at it. I'm just like, oh, this is bad.

Speaker 1: 54:43

And I knew I couldn't hang on.

Speaker 2: 54:44

Yeah, so snaps me off, and I had to fall at least 100 feet with all my gear on. And the first thing I thought was why am I all wet? You know, because it just didn't compute like I'm supposed to be on the deck of a ship. Now I'm not only on the deck of a ship, I'm in the middle of the ocean and what, what's going on ships way over there, right yeah?

Speaker 1: 55:08

yeah, so they don't realize I'm gone for yeah because he started to fly off like no one was there, so you're he's going away, so now you're way off from where you should be yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:18

So the ship's going one way, the current's going the other way, and I'm just like, okay, so I pop my life vest, but it's only rated for a guy who's 160 pounds and you're like 225 at this time right well, that's just what I weigh.

Speaker 2: 55:36

But then with all body armor and all the other stuff, I'm like 250, yeah, and I start to sink. I'm like, oh, this is bad. So then I turn on my strobe light and I hear this disgusting, and it's shorted out and, um, the ship's still going away. And but they realize I'm gone, right, um, but the waves are so big that I'm sucking down a bunch of salt water, right. So I'm like, okay, I gotta survive. So I turned away, um, and then I just started floating out to sea and the most disgusting sound I've ever heard was they do rescue in a figure eight. So the helicopter does a figure eight. So I was on the outside of the figure eight and the worst thing I'd ever heard was the helicopter. I could see it, but I was invisible. Helicopter, I could see it, but I was invisible. And the worst sound I'd ever heard was the helicopter flying away, heading back the other way.

Speaker 1: 56:33

Then I knew they couldn't see me but then at this time you so you got equipment failure, equipment failure, but then you had the wherewithal, because you you talk about like how, and I think it's part of the training too, but maybe it's part of who you are as well, of this idea of like this, never give up this attitude that your dad put in play and this ethos of who it is to be a green. But then you also got your formal training.

Speaker 2: 56:55

You were surprisingly calm and you said you went and took the next thing, which was getting an old headlamp right I had a whole old headlamp that I always carried a bunch of stuff and my teammates always made fun of me. It's like, oh, nobody uses that stuff. You're over here, but I packed it anyway.

Speaker 2: 57:12

Two is one and one is not right so I, you know, I start to, I start the panic process because I'm sinking, yeah, and then I remember the safety briefs, like, hey, this is a great white breeding ground where we are, of course, yeah, between catalina, just stay calm right.

Speaker 2: 57:30

So between catalina, california and san clemente island, this corridor is a great white breeding ground and I'm flapping around like, oh, the sharks, like well, something just arrived for lunch, so let me go check that out. So I'm like, okay, you have to stay calm, all right, figure this out, calm down. So I, you, I stop and I'm trying to get my bearings but I don't have a compass. So if I start swimming north, then I'm just going to swim up to Alaska or south down in Mexico. So it's like I don't know where I'm going. So I get my fins on and I'm getting ready to put my fins on and just start swimming.

Speaker 2: 58:05

Um, and one of the guys in the platoon had happened to steal a one of the gen one night vision scopes this is John, right, john, yeah, yeah. And I happened to put my headlamp back on just for the mere fact that somebody might see it before I, before I hype out and die and drown. And all of a sudden I hear the helicopter again. I was like, well, it sounds like it's getting closer, so let me turn back around. And so a few minutes later, the helicopter.

Speaker 2: 58:40

You know, I see the helicopter and they see me and I'm just like oh, there's no way that they found me. And the rescue swimmer jumps in and they have a script, like hey, we're here to get you out, and you know he's going through a script. I'm like, hey, man, I get it, can you just get me on the water? He's like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, man, no problem, and it was now. We just now, we're just having a conversation and he puts the ring around me and hoists me up. But I had been out there for like 45 minutes and I was hypothermic and you know, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2: 59:11

I only had maybe 30 minutes left before I would have passed out from that. I would have succumbed to hypothermia. And so they take me back to the carrier, right, because it's a medical emergency and they stop all air operations, which is a big deal for a carrier, and I had a George Costanza moment so they had to cut off all my gear and the entire flight deck is looking right at this guy who's getting wheeled off. I remember thinking it's cold out.

Speaker 1: 59:49

It's not how it normally is Full exposure. They're like this guy's not faking it. We've given them the thermometer. Now he's stripped naked and everyone's white.

Speaker 2: 1:00:02

Oh my god, this is not representative, but no so um, so they get me into the uh to medical and get me heated up. And then all of a sudden these two gentlemen walk in and I didn't have a filter back. You know, I was young and so gentleman walks in like son, what happened? I was like well, that shitty pilot, whoever he was, put me in the drink and I almost died out there and everybody in medical was like oh. And then the gentleman's like, okay, son, you take care. And um, cormac comes up, as I was like who, who is that? It's like that was the pilot. I was like huh, all right.

Speaker 2: 1:00:48

So, uh, I'm sure that pilot's like I hate that mark green, I hate that bob barker, you know that son of a so so, so yeah, but I mean, all the training that they put you through is, for a reason, second phase pool comp or hell week or whatever you know survival stuff in the water. You're so comfortable in the water that you think through every problem, and so when the oh shit happened it happens to everybody, it's just how long? How long do you stay in that state? And I stayed in that state for like three seconds and like all right, what do I got?

Speaker 1: 1:01:26

Adapt, overcome. What do we do? Right, you talk about on your second one too, like as if, if that wasn't experienced enough, you know, and just kind of said to you get knocked over, you're now underwater. But you kind of got sucked in in this training mission and now you're getting vacuumed out, and you know why? Because you have no idea which way is up at this point too right. And how did that? How did that?

Speaker 2: 1:01:52

so we're september 11th, that happens. Our second deployment september 11th happened. We're on the uss, germantown, heading towards jakarta, indonesia, because you know the um, the fear was the population was going to overthrow the embassy.

Speaker 2: 1:02:09

That's right yeah, yeah, we're so we're steaming down to Jakarta and we're prepping for the MEO that we're getting ready to do. We're going to evacuate members of the embassy, so we're getting our boats out and all that stuff and we're they flood the well deck and then they launch ships that way, ships and boats from the main amphib. So we're, you know, the from the main, from the main amphib. So we're, you know, isolated from the crew, because the captain of the ship's like you fools are not polluting my sailors with all your seal stuff, right? So so finally we emerge and we're training for our stuff and everybody's on the fantail like, oh, the seals are out.

Speaker 2: 1:02:49

So one of the young guys is, you know, hot dogging for the crowd and he's missing the back of the ship for us to recover on. And we're all like, hey, stupid. And he finally corrects and we're maybe five, ten feet away from um recovering on the deck of the ship. Well, I fall over the side into the water and I get caught in the prop wash. So I go from the surface to 30 feet like that almost instantly, and all of a sudden, the only way I knew it was up because I could see some sunlight.

Speaker 1: 1:03:29

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:03:31

And it felt like these hands were just pushing me down so I couldn't move. I was, you know, I was trying to go up to the surface, but then I was like we can't go to the surface because you're under the props right. So, as calm as I've ever been, like I'm sitting in the seat right now, I lean back like this sit in my underwater chair, and I was like I'm so mad. I'm so mad right now. I don't want to die like this.

Speaker 2: 1:03:59

I refuse to die on that one, yeah, so been here before but it's the calmest I've ever been, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:04:07

And I'm just like, okay, try to swim up. So I try to swim up. Hands are still pushing to swim up, hands are still pushing me down and I look down on my life vest because, you know, if I pop my life vest, light in the world is shooting me to the surface at this point. So I'm like, well, if I pop my life vest, then I could get caught in the props. So don't pull your life vest yet. So I sit back in my seat. I was like, okay, I'm going to try this one more time. So I try to swim up, again, nothing. And I'm like give it a little bit more time, and if you don't get to go up, if you're still getting held down, then go ahead and pop your leg.

Speaker 2: 1:04:41

And now I'm having this conversation in my head. So then I start to swim up and I'm starting to make headway. So finally I make it to the surface. The ship is hundreds of yards away and all of a sudden I pop up. I thought I was dead. Yeah, the ship got overboard. And I'm like, yeah, this kid's. Yeah, he's in the middle of the Pacific. I'm dead.

Speaker 1: 1:05:02

Because this isn't 20 seconds. This is like two minutes.

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

Yeah, yeah, I was in there for a few minutes and you know, uh, they see me pop up and get in the boats and they come and grab me and one of my friends, ryan's like hey, man, you might need to reconsider this whole water thing. Cut this shit out, yeah, so so. Yeah, so that was, but that was my two of my. I have a third one I haven't talked about. It'll be in the next book, probably Good.

Speaker 1: 1:05:36

That was a good question. I was wondering if you're going to continue this awesome path.

Speaker 2: 1:05:39

Yeah, I had three. I should have had my strikeout at three, but I survived the third one. But you know, I reverted back to my training again and it was like, hey, stay calm, everything's fine, work your way through the problem, and you know there's going to be a solution to this. So just don't panic and we'll figure this out. And that was my mentality going through the whole thing the second time. The first time I had the panic like the, the, the oh shit happened, but this time I didn't. I was panic like the, the, oh shit happened, yeah, but this time I didn't. I was like it was damn it, they're gonna make so much fun of me after the end of this, you know so, um, but yeah, it was, it was. The training is so hard and the selection process is so arduous. For a reason, yeah, because you know this happens.

Speaker 1: 1:06:31

You gotta get the best of the best, strongest mentally, physically, everything.

Speaker 1: 1:06:35

Well, you know and I hadn't said this yet, but you know, thank you for your service and for all that you've done on behalf of our country and you and your brotherhood, man, it's, it's incredible, you know, I I was kind of thinking about you know, when you mentioned that there's a third one. I feel like you know there's maybe even a 2.5 there in a sense, because whenever you left and you retired, you had your 20 year retirement, right, and so is that it's a forced out at 20? Is that how that works? Or because you mentioned the 20 year and then, but I was kind of curious about like what? What is that? What does retirement look like? Is there a? You know, I'm unfamiliar, so how does that work in that sense?

Speaker 2: 1:07:14

So, under normal conditions, 20 years is when you can retire. Yep, so the 20-year mark hit and it's like, okay, I'm 44 years old, you know, am I I'm going to be more marketable at 44 than 54. You know. And then, you know, promotion I didn't get promoted, so I was just like, well, you know, it's time to go. So, um, at 20 years, I retired and it was so much more challenging and harder than I thought because, um, you know, there's prestige in being a SEAL. You know, and you're doing, you're doing some of the hardest jobs. And you know, there's prestige in being a SEAL. You know, and you're doing some of the hardest jobs, and you're at such a high level and even though there's so much complaining and it's like, oh, this sucks, you really do. You can't do it for that long without loving it.

Speaker 1: 1:08:07

Yeah, you embrace the suck.

Speaker 2: 1:08:09

Yeah, and it becomes who you are, and I didn't realize it had intertwined itself into my, the fiber of my being, to the level it did. So on Friday I was Mark the Navy SEAL, and then Saturday it was just Mark. The only thing I was shooting at that point were emails, you know, yeah, and it was like what just happened. So, um, and that seal locker room was gone forever. Right, you're never going to recreate it. Um, and that's the first time I realized I was tolerated but not welcome in the seal community anymore. Not because I wasn't welcome anymore, but they're still in the churn, they're still in the grind, they're still working towards a workup and then going to point and fighting.

Speaker 1: 1:08:58

So when I was focusing on a different set of group and people. Right, right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:09:02

It was like, hey, we thanks for your service and you know you're always going to be part of this brotherhood, but we got to go and you can't come along anymore. So I was just like, wow, and. But no shade or no animosity, that's just the military is designed to thrive and accomplish his mission without you being there. You know they're recruiting and training your replacement all the time. Yeah, so I didn't take. It wasn't something I took personally. I was like, oh, the Navy screwed me me. It was just like this is reality, you know. So I had to figure out really quickly that, hey, man, you got to figure this out like you figured everything else out, and just opportunity after opportunity popped up. And the best opportunity I've had, I think, to this date was went to a fundraiser in New York City and met this amazing gentleman, two gentlemen, bill and Kent. And you know we were going to the venue and initially I was going to be like, ah, I'm tired, I just don't want to go. But something was like you need to go to this thing. So we got to the venue and I was talking to this gentleman I was the first deal he'd ever talked to. So he was like, oh my God, your story is amazing. And I was just like well, not really. I mean everybody here, all the other SEALs have equally cool stories. But he's like you have to meet Bill. And I was like okay.

Speaker 2: 1:10:26

And Bill showed up and we hit it off instantly. And he's like so, mark, you know, you've been a SEAL for 20 years, you got your MBA. You know what are you gonna do next? And I was like I have no idea. He's like well, how do you feel about that? I was like Bill, I'm terrified.

Speaker 2: 1:10:47

And the look on his face was like wait a second, you have all this. You're 6'2" good looking young man, very articulate. You know, you have this great background and you are terrified. I was like, yeah, I was like Bill, I don't even know what I'm good at. And he was like absolutely not. He gave me his card and said okay, here's my card. I want to bring you out to LA, I want you to work with my staff and we're going to figure this out for you. And there was a twinge of anger, because I was like well, why would you do that, you know? Or I was defensive. I was like why would you? I'm a complete stranger, why, why'd you help me to this degree and he's like this is what we do.

Speaker 2: 1:11:25

And he's like take the card and, and hopefully I'll hear from you soon. So blew it off and I was like it's the old guy. And then there were no prospects. I was applying for the FBI and that was taken forever. No real prospects of Virginia Beach.

Speaker 2: 1:11:44

And I happened to move a piece of clothing and there was his card. I was like let me get this little guy a call. So I gave him a call and said hey, bill, I'm going to go ahead and take it up on your offer. He's like great, like my, you're going to get a couple of emails. And when can you come out? I was like I can come out tomorrow. He's like, well, I can't get out here tomorrow, but we're going to get out here next. So next week came out. So I went out to LA and met him again. It was the same, but I was defensive. I was like something's going to happen, like he's going to roofie me. I'm going to wake up in the bathtub with one kidney missing. I was like you bastard, I knew it. So that was my mentality.

Speaker 2: 1:12:26

All this and now yeah, and now one kidney. So. But he was gracious and, you know, introduced me to all of his friends and said this is my guy and let's get him taken care of. So I just learned what I was good at and how it translated my skillset from the military, how it translated into the business world. And by Wednesday he pulls me aside. He's like Mark, you have a great resume. And by this time we had really connected. I was like well, it's about damn time you read the thing. I've been out here for three days. He's like ah, well, I like to observe the person and then look at their resume and see if they match. And then, if they don't match, here are the corrections, like but, you pretty much captured it. He's like but-.

Speaker 2: 1:13:14

Like real estate stuff, which is yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah it's like but if you want a job, you're part of the family, you have a job if you want it. But just so you know, if what I do is not gonna be the job for you, I was like, okay, well, I appreciate that. He's like I'm going to USC, do you want to come? I was like USC, usc. He's like, yeah, and so we hop in the car the next day and go to USC and it was graduation week, which was, you know, chaotic and awesome. So I take two steps out of the car and said, oh my God, bill, this would be such a great place to work. He didn't say another word. I didn't say another word. We do the campus tour and I leave the next day.

Speaker 2: 1:13:56

Two weeks later he called and said hey, mark, everything we talked about two weeks ago, forget it. I got you four interviews at USC and I was like, okay. I was like what am I interviewing for? He's like oh, don't worry about it, just don't suck. And he hung up. So I get a suit and I get a USC colored tie and I show up at the interview, right and still not knowing what I'm interviewing for. So I meet with Al and the four interviews that I had and I was just telling stories because I was like one I'm not moving to LA. I mean, la is weird and you know you have your family, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:14:38

So I'm just going out here to practice interviewing and you know for my real job that I'm going to take. So Al said hey, mark, when you're done with the other interviews, come on back. I was like, okay, I'll you know, just so I come back. And he said you know, so what's it going to take to get you out of USC? And in my ignorance I was like what do you mean? In my head I was saying that, but then I was like, holy crap, this is job offer, the job offer, right, yeah, yeah. So I throw out a number that I think is astral. I was like 150,000 and I'm kind of smug, cause I'm like I know it's going to kick me out of this office. I cause I expect him to say you little punk, get out of my office.

Speaker 1: 1:15:23

And I dropped one 50 on him. He's like okay yeah, no problem.

Speaker 2: 1:15:26

I'm just like, ah, shit, no, no it. I can say yes, sure, sure. So then I was like, oh well, you know, my wife at the time is an audiologist and there are no jobs out here. I didn't research it, but he called. He gets on the phone and say, hey, usc medical center. I'm like, damn, of course they have their own medical center. He's like hey, I've got a guy I want. Do you have a position for his wife? I was like yeah, whatever you need, man, we got you.

Speaker 2: 1:15:53

Hangs up the phone. I was like well, I have three kids and the schools out here suck and you know, I don't even know where to live, so I don't even know what schools to take him to. Picks up the phone again. It's like hey, I got a guy I want to hire. Do you still have those three scholarships floating around for at least a year until he figures it out? Yeah, no problem. Hangs up the phone. He's like are we good? I'm like, apparently we're good. So all of a sudden I have this job. That's going to be 150 a year, right, who cares what the job is?

Speaker 1: 1:16:25

I'm on this awesome campus, your wife a job, you got the scholarships, everything's perfect.

Speaker 2: 1:16:30

Yeah, and if you stay at usc for two years, your kids go to usc for free, and that's three it costs 300 grand right at least yeah, for four years, that's.

Speaker 2: 1:16:41

I was like, okay, that's 1.2 million dollars that I don't have to times three, right. So I'm just like, hey, babe, guess what? We're moving to la and you have a job and all the stuff. And she's like, yeah, I'm not going. And I'm like, okay, completely confused because in my mind I was like this is a very binary thing, like I can either put food on the table and support the family or not. And there's no prospects in virginia. So so I really didn't understand. So then I called Bill and said, hey, bill, hey, I'm not going to be able to take the job offer. I'm going to call Al and let him know. So he's like, well, what's the problem?

Speaker 2: 1:17:25

I was like, well, wife's not, you know, she's not happy about moving. He's like, well, how about this? How about bring out, have her find any house in LA that she likes, in Malibu, on the beach, wherever she wants to live. I'll give you a low interest loan. You stay out here for five years, the house is yours. So I'm like you're not going to believe what just happened. And again she said, no, I'm going to stay here. I was like, okay, I have to take this opportunity. I don't know what's going to come out of it, but something great is going to happen and I want you to come with me. But if you're choosing to not go, I have to take the job, and I negotiated that I get to come back every couple of weeks.

Speaker 1: 1:18:05

Yeah, you're doing like a two week on, two week off, right?

Speaker 2: 1:18:07

Yep. So then I start the job and then the invisible injuries start to show up from the traumatic brain injuries and pts and just wear and tear like it all starts to manifest and and I couldn't learn new stuff anymore. My ability to learn new stuff was blocked. And but you know, I didn't realize in the teams, because you're doing the same thing, you know you have the basic skill at a high level. So when you learn something new it's like it's just a modification of what you already know. You're not learning anything new anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:18:47

But I, looking back on it, I had started to struggle with learning new stuff after my second or after my tour in Afghanistan. Like I took a job as an operations officer and I just could not figure it out. But I just thought it's because you know, I'm just not good at this job. Well, looking back on it, I had, you know, after going to Nyko they did a brain scan and I had a bunch of TBI-related lesions so they could see them. So that kind of solved that initial problem when I was in the military. But I didn't understand how it translated to what I was going through now that it had gotten quiet. Like I didn't have that locker room anymore. I didn't have that support system, so now I'm just by myself in LA learning a new job in a new city, and I'm not really good at any one thing and I can't learn anything new now.

Speaker 1: 1:19:42

You're missing the crap out of your kids when you're not there, right?

Speaker 2: 1:19:46

Yeah, and the spiral started slow, but then it started to pick up because, you know, the marriage didn't survive. So now I'm not good at my job, still trying to figure out the new city, commuting back and forth and I can't learn anything new, and then all of a sudden I start to feel like a burden. Then, all of a sudden I start to feel like a burden and then it's like, well, if I'm not doing any one good thing, what should I do now? What all SEALs do we just pile on more stuff. So I said I have a great idea. I'm going to apply for grad school at USC. Put more on my shoulders.

Speaker 1: 1:20:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:20:34

So. So then it was like again, I started grad grad school, but then I wasn't good at the other stuff yet. So I had this one more thing, because once I started, like my dad said, I couldn't quit. So I was committed to this, to this grad school, and I was. I sucked at everything and one day I'm psyched, I feel like a burden. So I think life would be better if I just wasn't around anymore. It was an option, right.

Speaker 2: 1:20:57

And I had this really wonderful friend out there who unfortunately had an attempt on her life herself. So she knew she called me out of the blue one day. She's like hey, are you all right? And I was like, no, actually I'm not doing well at all. And I said hey, I have guns in the house. Could you just come over and grab them and just get them out of the house? So it's not even an option. And she, before she hung up, she said you know, we, we all love you around here and we think the world of you and this is just a hiccup. And she's like we just think you're valuable still.

Speaker 2: 1:21:44

And that thing resonated it's like okay, I'm not a burden, this is just In my mind. I had so much to live for. But in that moment I was just like once that snowball started, it started to get bigger and so it takes about. She lives in Hollywood and I live in Pasadena. It's a shortest amount of time is 30 minutes, right.

Speaker 2: 1:22:10

So she hopped in the car and I, um, took a walk that I knew would take about 30 minutes, perfect timing. I'm coming back to the apartment she's pulling in, just give me a big old hug and give hand her the hand of the guns and she's like okay, I'll see you tomorrow. And at that point I'm like, okay. I'm like okay, I'm going to be okay. But she helped make sure that that was going to happen, that I couldn't hurt myself that night. And once the next day showed up and I was able to process that, I was like, okay, you still have a ton to live for. And that was just a hiccup. But thank God she called, called when she did, because I wasn't going to call anybody.

Speaker 1: 1:22:57

I didn't call my best friend ryan right, yeah, who you've lifelong friends and yeah, share everything.

Speaker 2: 1:23:03

But you were down in a deep spot, yep and I was going to suffer in silence, like always. And just that one phone call to a person who was in my network and I just had this really great community out in USC.

Speaker 1: 1:23:20

And you found a tribe again.

Speaker 2: 1:23:21

Yeah, yeah, and it was a great tribe. It's a little bit of a cult and we all kind of we.

Speaker 1: 1:23:27

we know what it is. Is that what the C stands for?

Speaker 2: 1:23:29

Yeah, Southern cult. So, but it's just this energy that the campus and the, the students have and if you're a part of the university, it's just this, this thing we all accept and, um, so I had my tribe again, I had my mission again. Um, I had figured out that I was still valuable, but still there was still. I still wasn't making. I knew there was still something going on. So I got in this really bad bicycle accident and, yeah, I had been going to this therapist for probably six months and I was playing defense against her because I didn't really want to get better at that point. And whenever she said, hey, you know, how are you feeling about this? And at first I was like, what are feelings? Feelings are dumb. And she was like, because you had in buds and the SEAL community in combat, you literally have to turn it off.

Speaker 2: 1:24:23

You compartmentalize it. It's not relevant, right? So I was like I don't even know what that means and I'm going to stop paying you here shortly. So I got like I don't even know what that means and I'm going to stop paying you here shortly. So I got in this bike accident, tore up the right side of my, my hip, and like. That was on, I think, on a Wednesday, and I was scheduled to fly home to see my kids on a Friday, like clockwork, you know. And the pain was so bad that I didn't sleep on the plane because, you know, I couldn't get comfortable because I had this wound.

Speaker 2: 1:24:58

And then the next day it was my daughter's birthday and you know, I made a promise to her like, hey, we're gonna go to great wolf lodge and we're gonna go to bush gardens. So I don't care how this leg feels we're, we're following through right, and they're like, dad, you look like shit. You know you don't have how this leg feels we're, we're following through right, and they're like, dad, you look like shit. You know you don't have to go on these roller coasters.

Speaker 2: 1:25:16

But I was like, well, how about we pick one that won't hurt the leg? So we picked one that was you're dangling and I was like, okay, I'll be safe on this one. Oh no, no, every turn seemed to hit that injury and I mean I was on the brink. I was in so much pain. I was on the brink of tears but I was like, all right, just pain, you're gonna be fine. But I knew that, okay, I can either focus on the physical pain or the emotional stuff that I didn't quite even understand, but it was the stuff from combat or losing my father or losing my best friend in the teams.

Speaker 1: 1:25:53

Yeah, right, yeah yeah, just all those things.

Speaker 2: 1:25:58

They were still sitting in there, not having been resolved, but I was, you know I could hold the dam back. So I was like I can either concentrate and focus on this physical pain or this stuff over here, and the physical pain was tangible. So I put all my effort into not like succumbing to the pain and then I found a small corner in bush gardens and basically just collapsed in a heap and just finally 20 years of tears just came up and it was awful like I was in fetal position and you know my body was shaking. I was like what in the world? But just all that life stuff that I, the divorce and the move and not, and all this stuff just was finally like, hey, man, we got to deal with this at some point and um and so that's what.

Speaker 2: 1:26:57

And at that point I was like, okay, I, I don't have the tools I need to to beat this thing, the series of things, and that was just the catalyst to start getting better. And going back to amy the therapist's, like, okay, we went through the whole talking through things. So where do you? You just reacted to what we just talked about. Where do you feel that? And I was just like I feel it right here. For the first time in decades, my body wasn't buzzing like it normally was. Decades, I, my body wasn't buzzing like it normally was. And when she said, I was like oh, I, I feel something like like my chest is getting tight and she's like, okay, let's get you better.

Speaker 2: 1:27:42

And from then it was just the snowball effect again. It's like, well, now that you reached out to them, she's like, okay, here's some resources, let's get you better. And I just researched everything and there was so much support out there that, um, I got the help I needed and you know I'm still here today and I was able to, you know, have a great four years out there. Um managed the divorce and figured out how to be a good parent again.

Speaker 2: 1:28:12

I made some mistakes, you know, but I figured it out and my kids were impossibly patient with me as we all navigated this new me being a single parent and making mistakes, because I'd never done it on my own. I didn't have my own routines for anything, you know it was just hey, this is what your mother does and this is what we do as a family. So so now I had to rediscover that on my own and my kids were, and they were so great and, um, so supportive. And then, you know, I got to finally got a job back in Virginia uh, work at Dominion Energy right now. And, um, now I'm a bestselling author, which is weird.

Speaker 1: 1:28:53

Right, yeah, at what point in this journey did you decide I'm going to write this book? Because I know that there was some impetus from some friends and colleagues of you to kind of like, hey, you've got a hell of a story, let's put this out. But you were kind of there was a resistance, I guess, at a point. But then that resistance broke, like you know, sometimes it it does. So what was that?

Speaker 2: 1:29:16

like uh, in in that kind of going from this idea of you know people telling you should do this, and then, okay, I'm going to put pen to paper and start this process well, he kind of forced my hand because I, because he said, mark, you know, you have to, you have a great story and they're, you know, pillars of the community who have incredible stories. I was like, you know, mark owens got a great story, chaco's got a great story. Um, so many people have great stories and, uh, it's like it's kind of taboo for team guys to write books. So I was like, yeah, I'll pass. And a mutual friend of ours saw me do a speaking event out of USC and here I was 50 years old talking to 18 or 22 year olds and they're like they hung on every word, everybody's phone was down and they were just like, okay, what's next? What's the next part of your story? So, so finally bobby was like okay, I've had enough of you. Here's, here's, I'm funding your book.

Speaker 2: 1:30:23

And, um, we've picked out four ghost writers. Interview them, pick one, and you have to. Just, you have till the summer. This is in december. And I was like, well, you're not the summer, and this was in December. And I was like, well, you're not the boss of me. You know, the 12-year-old Mark showed up, who was throwing my tip for tantrum during Halloween. I was like, right, right. And so I was like, well, he's actually funding the book, so he is kind of the boss. So I interviewed Shelby and she and I just really clicked and I was like, okay, well, let's do this book thing. And I wasn't quite sure where I was going to go with the book. And I got the stat of the 22 veterans a day that were taking their own lives and I was just like because of their transitioning at some point and the transition was so traumatizing or they were out of their depth to such a degree that they said you know what the best option right now is for me to not be a burden. And I knew what that was like.

Speaker 1: 1:31:22

Yeah, I knew exactly what that was like.

Speaker 2: 1:31:24

Yeah, so I was just like well, how about we focus on transitions and how challenging they can be? Focus on transitions and how challenging they can be? And that's when I just started telling the stories. And what I would do is I would dictate into an AI program and then I would email it to myself and to Shelby and then she would take it from caveman to legible, legible, and, and then we would just kind of work on the stories together. And she added a lot of what I call texture to it and, um, because in college I was an academic writer, so it was these are the facts, and a, b, c and d, and you know, here's the answer. So she's like, well, you're talking at your audience and we need to talk to your audience.

Speaker 2: 1:32:09

Yeah, I was like, well, that doesn't make any sense to me. So, um, we would go through the stories and I just I couldn't put it together what she meant. And then one day I did, and with the help of my editor as well, and that's when I wrote the first story of the book in New York City and I submitted it to Shelby and the editor and like every chapter right, every chapter like this. So once I figured out what right looked like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:32:36

No, I was like okay, I get it now. So we took the shell, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:32:38

So we took the shell of the book and I just really added the emotional stuff to it and, um, here's what things look like or here's what things smelled like, and here's what I was experiencing internally. And then the book just ended up writing itself, and I wanted to write it in a way that my dad would be proud of it, because my dad passed away at a very young age. He was 52. And I was 31 or 32 when he died. So, writing this book, I really had a theme. I was like, hey, make sure dad is proud of this book. And so when I finished it and read through it, I was like he'd be proud of this one. And then I also wrote. I was like, well, I have to write it for my kids too, because hopefully my kids will read it and it'll fill in the blanks that I couldn't fill in as their dad telling stories and I just wanted them to be proud of it. So, um, and then we came up with the. I came up with the six pillars, uh, because I was like, what is what does transition look like? And for, for me, I was like I went through this part and I'm an introvert, and but I, you know, I couldn't articulate it. And then one night again, I couldn't sleep and I was like, okay, I got it.

Speaker 2: 1:34:03

And that's when I wrote the, the six pillars of my transition, which is um, isolation, indulgence, cocooning, Isolation, indulgence cocooning emergence, grief and resolution. And in the book I highlight what each of those things mean to me and, like I said, I'm an introvert, so it may not look the same to somebody who's not an introvert, but hopefully it at least gives a framework or or a catalyst for, okay, I, I understand what this means and even though I may not need to isolate, I'm going to probably engorge myself on information and um, and that's what I did. And when I, when I put them all together, I was like, okay, this makes sense to me and I really, really hope it translates to the audience. And you haven't read the book, you know we haven't talked about this, but you know, how does that, those six pillars translate? Cause I, they, they work for me, but I'm like, would they? Would they work for George, or would they work for anybody who's read the book? So you know, I'm just so curious as to your take on it.

Speaker 1: 1:35:16

Yeah, man, I mean, I I feel like it's such, um, everyone's story is completely unique, right, and but, and and I can't even begin for a second to even pretend that I know what it's like to have been gone through your shoes. You know, and in your experiences, and but what you talk about are the things that help someone to be able to go from broken, confused down spiral, darkness to working on that transition of healing, cause it's not just the, you know it's, it's never just something immediate, right, like there's a lot of therapy, there's a lot of things that there, that grief, that cocooning stage, you know that isolation that you get into, but then being able to emerge from that, finding out what it is that gets you through. I think that those are, you know, those kinds of pillars are, are, are important and you can kind of adapt and look at that as an overlay on anybody's life and any times that you know maybe something has gone wrong or someone's lost, you know a significant person you know in their life, like you talk about your father or Mike, uh, you know, you talk about your cousin. There's different situations where you go through these stages, but, um it, I love the idea of this journey of you being able to then identify those Cause. A lot of that talk was like you going through all these difficult processing moments until it was just too much to take and you're at a theme park in a corner, like, and you're like okay, like, but it was there's other times in the book and I know we can't get into everything, but you you have this kind of epiphany of like, I need help, and you go and you ask for it and it's something that you know. You being open to Bill when you're in New York and having this conversation, yeah, I don't know what's next. I'm scared as hell. You know, I'm not sure. The next stage is.

Speaker 1: 1:37:06

In most people's minds. You are operating at the very highest level. You're a Navy SEAL. You most people have. Somebody asks you hey, are you okay? And you're like yeah, you know okay. Yeah, yeah, he's a SEAL, he's fine.

Speaker 1: 1:37:20

But you know a lot of people lie about how they're really doing and a lot of people have that darkness that they go to and they don't admit it and it's very hard to to talk about. It's very hard to be vulnerable and let yourself yeah, I'm fucked up right now I'm going through a real tough spot, I'm feeling maybe suicidal. I mean it. It's this book, I feel like lets people know that even at the highest level of achievement of strength, of mental fortitude, there are times that people can fall and that you need to rely on your tribe, your community, the safety nets of your family and your friends. And you know it was a phone call from somebody who had gone through that too. That just happened to be that day to call you to see how you're doing that. You were very honest about it. I'm not okay and I I love that. You kind of, I think, allow others to maybe look inside their own struggles to realize that it's okay to to have it be a little messy. It's okay to realize that it's okay to to have it be a little messy. It's okay to realize maybe you're weak but it's not weak, I don't think to be vulnerable, I think it's a strength to, but it's hard to get through that tipping point to that.

Speaker 1: 1:38:42

And you know I look at these kinds of things like if, if you know and I'm sure you think about this too if your book, if someone opens this and one person can make the difference of getting out of that darkness, it's more than you know, surpassed its importance and goals, but I think it's going to be a transitional thing for a lot of people and a blueprint for people to follow, with these six pillars, and I think, um, I'm just so damn grateful that you put this out, man.

Speaker 1: 1:39:11

I mean, this book is phenomenal mark you really have have left a mark and uh, no pun intended on on this world of of really not only all the amazing service you've done for our country, but the service you've done for people in general by sharing your story and your struggles. I'm'm just I'm I'm deaded in gratefulness to you for for this. I mean, I won this book in a contest online and it's helped to change my life too and how I see things and fuels me on wanting to give back and to help, you know, spread your word and anything I can do to help, you know, get this out to another level of audience. So that's what your book's done for me, man. It's really given me some hope.

Speaker 2: 1:39:54

Yeah, and you know I wrote it because you know people who are athletes thousands and thousands of hours towards that goal of going to the next level. Yeah, and you know you're going to be retired at some point or you're not good enough to make it to the next level, and those thousands of hours you put into it. Now what that's a transition point, right, or losing a family member, or becoming a parent. You know there are so many transition points and each story in the book is really a different transition point and not all of them are struggles. You know some of them are fun, like being a being a parent, and teaching my son how to ride a bike was one of the best chapters huh yeah, that was my favorite one to write yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:40:41

Or with my grandfather trying to teach me baseball, like, yeah, pass. So, um, you know, all those things are transition points and, um, there's a lot of hope in in the book and it's just. But it's just a raw hey, this is. This is good, bad and ugly, and it's it's an open invitation for you to say, um, hey, I can connect with this.

Speaker 2: 1:41:08

Or, you know, if you're in a family or no, matter what you're going through, especially in the military, your family also transitions. You know, it's not just a service member the kid transitions, your spouse transitions, the dog transitions, you know. So if, um, a spouse or significant other reason says, hey, I read this story and this looks exactly like what you're going through. Or a kid reads it and says, mom, dad, this looks like what you're going to go ahead and either read this chapter or read the book or something. So that was the goal and, um, that's what I really hope to achieve with with the book.

Speaker 2: 1:41:48

It's just, hey, this is a starting point to getting better on whatever your journey is and however long it takes. You know, um, because I realized that, as I was getting out of the military, my individual muscles to accomplishing said atrophied, right, because I've done things as a team for decades, sure, and all of a sudden you retire and you're now you know you're. If you're in a family, your team is significantly smaller, um, but you have to reconnect with those muscles again and um, sometimes it's challenging and sometimes it's um inspiring, and sometimes it's downright hard, but um, you get there, as because you have all the skills you need. You just need to reconnect with them in some way, and hopefully this book, along with some great podcasts or um spirituality or whatever you're into, is one of the things in your toolkit that really helps you um make that transition as smooth as possible.

Speaker 1: 1:42:52

Wow, man, um, mark, I'm, I'm, I'm almost speechless here Just thinking about this and getting emotional about it all.

Speaker 1: 1:42:59

Man, this is, uh, this is, this is an amazing book, man, and I'm, I'm just so glad that you have come through what you've come through with and that you decided or maybe we're forced to put this into words and, uh, to share with all of us. Um, you know, that kind of brings me around to, uh, you know, kind of a last question I have before. We can kind of talk about, maybe, where people can, you know, get the book and follow your journey here. And you know, we talked a lot about your time, your work, your family, and I'd like to ask my guests about this idea of legacy and how do you view your own legacy in a professional and a personal level and you know, I know there's a lot of different ways you might go with that, but, you know, is that something that you kind of think about in a lot and maybe through the process of writing this book? And how do you kind of view that legacy and what it is you hope to be remembered for and by through, uh, you know, at the end?

Speaker 2: 1:43:56

uh, professionally, um, I want my teammates to read this and say, um, he was a good seal, you know, and he was a good teammate, and um, I can connect with a couple. A couple teammates have read it and they said that it's like I'm talking. They're in a room having a conversation when they read the book. And being a good SEAL and getting the support of your peers in that way is really, really valuable, because, you know, we're thousands of guys, your platoon is down at those 16.

Speaker 2: 1:44:36

And if somebody's reasons like you know them as a teammate, as an operator and as a man in these situations, or as a leadership or whatever it is they. They're able to connect with that and say you know he was, he was, he was a good SEAL. And then, as far as personally, I like I said I wanted my, my dad to read this, like, ah, I remember that story, or you're such a goofy dad, or you know all the things that, the nuances that they know about me. I want them to be proud of it too, and they can pick it up with pride and say, yeah, that's, that's my dad. He laughs at his own jokes a little too much or whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:45:29

But you know, this is my guy.

Speaker 2: 1:45:33

Yeah, so that's the takeaway I'd love I'd love to have for it. And with my teammates, you know I was able to leave that legacy that to the last day that I interacted with them, they still came to me with their problems, you know, which was a sign of a good leader, which I learned early on. So, yeah, it's just been a great experience. It's been a great unexpected journey, like so many of them are, and it's been incredibly rewarding. And you know I get to come on great podcasts like yours and meet. You know I would have never met you, but I can tell after this we're to, we're going to stay in contact. Oh, yeah and um, I've just. This book has brought her about so many, um, great second and third order effects. I don't even know yet, um, but something, something good's coming and, uh, now I'm ready for it.

Speaker 1: 1:46:27

Dude Ph ready for it, Dude Phenomenal. Well, something good is going to be coming to people's, you know, mailboxes soon, Cause I know that everyone who's listening to this, if they don't already have a copy they're going to. Where can they find out about this? Where can they find out more about your journey? Give them your website, your handles and how they can go ahead and get a copy of unsealed Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:46:47

So on the website it's themarkgreencom and you can purchase a book. There. You can learn a little bit more about me as a person, but then we're you know, we can book speaking events, but on my social medias it's all markgreencom on Facebook, instagram I think I'm too old for TikTok, but I had to do the TikToks. Yeah, you got to get more right, yeah, yeah. And then on Instagram. So the support since we first started this journey has been phenomenal. We went from almost zero to 4,500 followers on Instagram and it's just really been a really cool journey. So those are, and you can get the book also on Amazon. If you get it on Amazon, I would just ask if you'd leave a review, because that pushes it up in the in the algorithm and um, really get the book out to more people who might want to read it.

Speaker 1: 1:47:42

Absolutely Well, and speaking of that too, um, we'll, we'll figure this out. Whether you know, I'm buying a handful of these, but I want to go ahead and do a giveaway of some of these books. Maybe we can get some signed copies from you, and, again, we'll sort that out. But I want to make sure that listeners have a chance. We can do like a little giveaway or something, and again, we'll, we'll, we'll announce the details, but I definitely want to get some into our listeners hands, cause this book, it can be life-changing man, and it can really, I think, be a blueprint for people who need to, you know, maybe be able to work on their transitions.

Speaker 1: 1:48:12

And, if nothing else, it's a wonderful story of a wonderful man who served this country, who loves his family and is trying to do something better and have every day be better, and just like your dad. Please do that. You've been doing that, man, and I just want to thank you for coming on here, sharing your story, being vulnerable, writing this book and being able to again all the things you've done for this great country and you're continuing to do by putting out your words and your message. And, mark, it's been an honor and a pleasure to have you on here.

Speaker 2: 1:48:40

George, it's been great to be on the show and I'm so grateful and thankful that you won the contest and we've been able to connect, and thanks so much for having me on the show and, um, hopefully we'll do a second one, but I'll be in the Houston area a lot, so I have to meet you in person, so I've got a homemade meal waiting for you, sir.

Speaker 1: 1:49:02

Come on over, meet the family and have a meal, and we will definitely get together soon. All right, well, thanks so much for having me on and we'll talk soon. Yeah, All right, indeed, thank you, sir.