Speaker 1: 0:15

Hey everybody, welcome back to the son of a blitz podcast. I'm your host, George blitz, and I just had a wonderful chat with Dirk Durham. You guys may know him as the bugler. He's been making all sorts of content out in the outside outdoor world with you know magazines, videos, audios, podcasts, interviews, things he's written. I mean he's been all over the place and you know now he has settled in working with Phelps game calls. Uh, you know he's had a full-time position there for quite a while and obviously when meat eater picked up Phelps game calls, he's now working with them too. Uh, there's some wonderful uh you know videos that they've recently put out. Uh, the ghost of the North woods was a real fun one that you can find on the Phelps uh YouTube page. I'll have some links down below where you can kind of get a sampling of what he's doing. But you know he's a world elk calling champion and he has designed some amazing calls bugle tubes and we talk a little bit about that and kind of you know what he hunted last season, you know what's in his freezer now, what's going to be on his docket for this next hunting season, and we just talked a little bit about his history. It was a lot of fun. Dirk's an amazing guy. A lot of fun. Everyone really enjoys. You know him and his personality and I think you guys will too.

Speaker 1: 1:26

So, without further ado, here is the podcast with Dirk Durham. Take care, how are you doing today, man? Fantastic, good deal. Well, hey look, I'm glad you're here. As with a lot of my guests, the first thing I like to do is kind of bring it back to the beginning. Give everybody a little sampling of where you grew up and how you got involved in your love of the outdoors and kind of maybe who are some of your mentors. Why don't you talk to me a little bit about kind of your beginning journey, and we'll kind of go from there.

Speaker 2: 1:52

Yeah, so I grew up in a small town in America, north central Idaho, a little town of Weeipe, and there was like 828 people in that town when I grew up there and it's even smaller now. It's like in the 500s now. It's a very small town, timber community. You had a little bit of ag close by. You know some wheat fields and wheat farmers and such, but for the most part it's, you know, it's logging country and my dad he was a World War II vet moved to Idaho to get away from the madness of the city and and whatnot after the war and and just kind of restart life and and uh, moved to this little town of weeipe and um, for the history buffs, weeipe is where lewis and clark met the nez perce indians and they were.

Speaker 2: 2:38

They were on starvation's death door by the time they got to across the bitterroot mountains to the weipe area and it's kind of like a high plateau almost type of country. And um, the nez percindians, they, they, they seen them, they watched, they saw them coming and they're like, oh, should we kill them or should we help them? And because and they were like these guys have fish eyes and upside down heads, because they had beards and blue eyes.

Speaker 2: 3:07

They'd never seen anyone like that before. And, as luck would have it, sacagawea was a Native American lady from another tribe who some white people had befriended and saved her from another tribe, I guess and said, no, they're good, help them, don't kill them. So they're like, okay, we'll help them out. Um, and then they, they spent some time there with the Nez Perce getting uh nursed back to health and then they helped them get in the river and their dugout canoes and on down the Columbia river they went to the ocean on the West coast. But, um, anyway, that's that's the area I grew up in. So you know, rich with history, it's absolutely beautiful country. Um, lots of mountains, lots of trees. Um, I'm, you know, it's my kind of pretty. But everybody, almost everybody, where they grow up is kind of, they're kind of pretty, right, it's a nostalgia, it's like that's the kind of that's, that's the kind of pretty I like. But anyway, my dad and uncles and their friends back in the 40s, when he first moved to Wee Ipe after World War II, they wanted to get into hunting and around town around Wee Ipe, down the low country this is kind of like the low country, you know foothills or the better roots there were very few elk. So they had to travel, you know, way, way, way back to the back country to hunt elk, and so they would have. They take these trips every fall and they would be gone for weeks. They would just, you know, work will wait. We'll go back to work when we get done hunting. So they would take horseback trips up into some amazing country, up the North Fork of the Clearwater, into the kelly creek area, and elk were thick, you know, at that time you know that had the, the nation's largest elk herd, idaho did, and it was phenomenal. So I grew up listening to these tales. You know these stories.

Speaker 2: 4:58

And of course, you know, back then when they hunted, they didn't shoot bulls. You know, do not shoot a bull, we just shoot cows. You can shoot either sex, right, and um, they're like don't, don't shoot cows because, or I mean, don't shoot bulls because they're they can be kind of ruddy and kind of tough and they're they're just meat hunters. Right, they're not in that, they're not into antlers at all, you can't eat the horns. My dad would say Right, and uh say right and uh. So, but you know, like of course I'm like, oh, were there big bulls? He's like, oh yeah, there were these really big bulls and he kind of tells stories about that. So, of course, my, my, my brain is just. You know, you can hear the little hamster wheel going in my brain at that point.

Speaker 2: 5:39

You know, um, and then somewhere along the lines, when I was a kid, I don't know, we were watching tv and there were some old gordon eastman movies like the old original ones, and he hunted all over. You know all the Northwest Territories, alaska, elkhunt, you know the lower 48. And I watched those and I'm like, oh my, that was like the coolest thing I'd ever seen. And I told my mom, I said, when I grow up I'm going to be a hunter. She's like, well, you can't, that's not really an occupation. I'm like, well, I don't care what it is, that's what I'm going to do when I grow up. I'm going to hunt. And from that time forward, you know I was very interested in hunting.

Speaker 2: 6:16

My uncle. He ran a trap line, he did a lot of hunting and he was a subscriber to all the outdoor periodicals at the time, you know, whether it's outdoor life or for a fishing game or field of stream. Anyway, he would take all of his old magazines and give them to us and I would just go through them. So we had like a hoarder's amount of magazines at my house growing up as a kid.

Speaker 1: 6:39

Resources, resources, yeah, including.

Speaker 2: 6:42

National Geographics. My dad, he really liked National Geographics and he liked hunting magazines too. But so that's what you know. Kids, these days, you know, they have the information super highway at their fingertips on a phone. You know supercomputer. Well, you know, there was nothing like that. I mean, if you want to learn about something you had to go to the library. But we had this giant library of magazine magazines. So I I spent my free time combing through these magazines. So I knew everything there was to know about what the coolest rifle scopes were in the coolest rifles and the cartridges and all the. You know, the big game hunts all over the place. And you know, I just tore these things apart and, um, so I just loved, uh, hunting magazines back then. And then, finally, it was time for me to hunt.

Speaker 2: 7:25

Well, by the time, um, it was time for me to hunt, my dad had kind of transitioned out of being a big hunter. He was just, you know, remember he's um went to world war two, right. So when, when I was, when I was born, he was 50 years old. So by the time I'm 12 years old, he's 62 now. He's not a big, you know, get out and break the brush or push the brush kind of a guy. So he liked to go road hunting.

Speaker 2: 7:54

He just kind of like put around and I think he really hoped he wouldn't see a deer to shoot. I think that was his secret hope, Like I hope we don't shoot anything. So he'd take me hunting my first year and I had a few opportunities to shoot a deer and he's just like oh no, you don't want to shoot that one because of this. Oh, don't shoot that because of that, you know. And he had all these excuses. I'm like this is crap, I want to shoot a deer, I wanted to shoot a deer, so bad. I'm like well, next year I'm not doing this. So the next year I was 13 and I would have my mom drop me off or he would drop me off out in the woods, he would drop me off and I'll be like all right, I'll see it after dark sometime. So I would go hunt, you know, cause we had hunting just a mile from her house or public land is his friend's land.

Speaker 1: 8:37

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 8:38

Yeah, like state land. Um, there there's a lot of um private timber company land which was all accessed then, not a lot of BLM or national forest down in that low country, but anyhow, and there was some private land too. You know, my brothers were a little older than me so they had already worked for farmers and stuff in the summertime and farmers are like oh yeah, you can hunt. The only rule is, if you shoot one elk you have to shoot two, two. You know they wanted you to shoot a lot of elk. Of course you can't do that, that's illegal, but uh, anyhow. So I had a good relationship with landowners. So I, my folks, would take me and drop me off various places and I would go hunt till dark, or they dropped me off in the in the dark in the morning and pick me up at noon until I had a driver's license of my own. So um, cut my teeth on on deer hunting. So that was just. I was all about deer hunting. Then Um didn't even have an elk tag until I was, I think, 15. And uh, so I shot some pretty nice bucks and then when I was 15, oh, four, when I was 14, um, there was this pond close to our house, out in the woods and there'd been a bunch of bear tracks in the, in the water or in the mud. And I'm like man, I bet a guy could sit here and shoot a bear. So you know, I didn't know anything about bear behavior. I thought, okay, what we're going to do is I'm going to sit here by this big tree, you know, get here like an hour before daylight and wait for a bear to come in and get a drink, and that's when I'm going to get him, me thinking that the bear probably comes in at first light. You know, just like deer and elk. But right, pretty sure the bear came in the night or maybe in the evening, who knows. But uh, anyway, I'm sitting there and I hear the brush popping and I'm like, all right, get my gun ready, I've got a, I got a rifle, I'm waiting, and pretty soon, oh, here it comes. And here comes this bear, and then out pops some elk. You know there's like three cows and a rag horn bull and they walk out and the bull walks right out in the pond and dances around a little bit, drinks and gets, gets wet and kind of wallows around a little bit, and the whole time.

Speaker 2: 10:41

All I can think is if I had a bow I could totally kill any one of these. These elk are like 20 yards away. I had a bow, I could kill any one of these elk with a bow. And it's bow season, right, it's bear season, archery, archery elk, archery deer or rifle or archery bear. So I'm like man, if I had a bow I could totally kill that thing.

Speaker 2: 11:05

So pretty soon they wandered off and I couldn't wait till my dad got there. He showed up around noon and I'm like, okay, first thing we got to do, we have to, we have to go to town and we have to buy some arrows. And we got broadheads and I had a bow already but I didn't have any good arrows for it. I had like one or two arrows and both of them were different, like one was wood, one was aluminum, the aluminum one. He, my dad. I'm like, hey, we have to buy. I bought one arrow, right. He's like I'm like you have to buy an insert in a, in a in a field point. He's like, no, we can make one of those. So we get home and he gets, gets this little piece of metal and starts grinding it round and trying to fit it in there. You know this thing is about. You know, let's say, three inches long and probably 800 grain. This thing's probably 800 grains. You know we're gluing into the front of my arrow, so that's the kind of an arrow I had. So you know it's not good.

Speaker 2: 11:57

So, anyway, I'm like yeah, we got to go to town buy some arrows and broadheads. You know the whole setup. He's like no, you're not doing that. He's like you can't kill an elk with a bow. I'm like you can't. I know people who've done it. He's like no, no, we're not doing that. And I was just crushed, I was pissed, I was crushed. I'm like well, next year I'm saving all my money and I'm going to buy my own bow and all the stuff'm gonna go shoot an elk. He's like okay, all right, whatever.

Speaker 2: 12:24

So the next summer I worked hard. I was 15, got a growth spurt, wasn't had such a chubby little kid anymore, grew tall, got strong and bucked hay bales all summer for the local farmers and saved all my money, bought a brand new compound bow, all the arrows, everything decked out, got clothes, everything. He's like man, you're really serious about this, because I didn't spend a dime on anything else. I'm like, no, that's yeah, I'm gonna kill an elk. And he's like, all right, tell you what. You kill an elk with this, this bow. You kill a bull, I will, I will reimburse you all, your, all, your money you've spent. And he, I'm like, okay, great. So he probably thought that was a pretty fair, fair bet. It's like, eh, he's not going to kill nothing.

Speaker 2: 13:08

Well, on the third day of season, I call in a five point, a five by six, and shoot it at 15 yards with my, with my bow, and kill it. And and, uh, again, I didn't have a driver's license yet, cause, instead of taking driver's ed, I was, I was bow hunting that fall. I was like, no, I, I'm going to go hunt and I'm not going to waste my time driver's ed after school, I'm going to hunt every day after school. So there's a Saturday morning and, anyway, I call in this bull and shoot it.

Speaker 2: 13:32

And my mom, she was sitting in the pickup, you know, about a quarter mile away, listening to the whole thing. And and, uh, she, uh, I'll go back to the truck. I'm like I got the bull. And she's like, oh, wow. So she went back home and told my dad to get his. Come along to load the elk in the back of the truck and his 500 bucks because I killed a bull and he couldn't believe it. General was my first love, but, um, my second love was elk hunting and it just pretty much overpowered the deer hunting for, uh, so much more fun than you know rifle hunting. So, um, and it just kind of went from there well, I was kind of curious too.

Speaker 1: 14:15

Like I know, you got a bow set up and everything. Were you? Um? Because for those who don't know, obviously you're a world-class elk caller were you doing any calling? Was it just circumstantially? What was that like for you and how did that work out? What was it like your setup, if you can kind of just paint me a little picture on that real quick?

Speaker 2: 14:32

Yeah Well, my best friend and I who my best friend later on married my wife's sister, so we're brother-in-laws nowadays.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Oh, there you go.

Speaker 2: 14:40

And yeah, so my best friend Randy, him and I were going to get into this bow hunting together, right? So we both, you know, worked in the hayfields and made money and spent all of our money on hunting stuff. And so he bought he liked a certain kind of bugle tube and I bought a different kind of bugle tube and we kind of liked our. We kind of settled on the same diaphragm. So the diaphragms we liked back then were built by Lohman and uh, and they were just a flat frame. You know, this is 1989, right. So technology for elk calls was pretty low, pretty primitive at the time. Yeah, and um, he, I, I bought a Lohman bugle tube and he got this other one, I think it's. I think he just said big bowl productions or something and I don't know if that was a Glenberryberry tube or what, but anyway, so we have both had different tubes. And then he thought it would be cool to have an external call called an elk talk. Um, it was made by um elk ink or it was called cow talk made by elk ink. And it was this this little, uh, two pieces of plastic they look like a couple credit cards that were kind of bent and there was a little rubber band thing in the middle of it and you would bite on it and then blow and it would make a kind of make an elk sound. It sounded like a weird bird, but elk would bugle to it, they would come to it, but it was not the best.

Speaker 2: 15:58

So, opening day of bow season, then my brother, my buddy and I, we show up and we get there and I forgot my tube at home. And well, he had his tube but he'd forgot his diaphragms. I'm like, well, give me your tube, I'll bugle the bull in for you. He's like, no, you'll call it in for yourself. And so he took his elk or his cow talk and and jabbed it into the end of his tube and was trying to bugle. And it sounded horrible. But the bull would answer, and we were by a farmer's place there.

Speaker 2: 16:32

These elk were out in this wheat field and we'd had kind of a wet fall and summer and they hadn't quite harvested the wheat yet. So the wheat was tall, it was probably waist high, and so he was calling to this bull and these elk weren't coming close enough to the fence line and to the brush and the trees to us. So he just gets this wild idea. He just hunches over and he kind of hunches over and puts his bow over above his head like antlers and just kind of starts running out through that that wheat field showing a shape. And it looked like antlers coming through the through the wheat field.

Speaker 2: 17:06

So he ran out there and then just kind of disappeared and that bull seen him and it just came running from the other side of the field. It was about 200 yards away when he seen him and that thing just came barreling over to him and I'm like God, that thing's going to step on him any second. Like what's he doing? The thing's standing there, just perfect, pretty soon it. It kind of jumps around, looks around and then jumps around, looks around again and and then takes off and bugles and gets the cows rounded up and away they go and they disappear out of the field. He comes back. I'm like, did you get him? He's like no, I missed twice. Like how could you miss?

Speaker 1: 17:38

it was like he's like on top of you. He's like it was like on top of me too close.

Speaker 2: 17:43

right years later he would admit he's like I finally figured out because he missed one day. He missed, he shot every arrow in his quiver at bulls, like six different bulls he missed in one morning and come to find out he's like I finally figured out. He's like I just kind of black out, I pull my bow back and I don't even, I don't even put my sights on it, I just pull back and like point my bow towards the elk and shoot. You know, I just kind of black out. And finally, after he identified his problem, he was able to like start killing stuff with his bow. But you know, but that's pretty common, you know a lot of people do.

Speaker 2: 18:18

But anyway, back to the calls. That's what our calls were and I it seems like people kind of naturally gifted at calling you either kind of get it right away or you struggle, struggle, struggle for a long time. Um, I, I picked it right up. I think the shape of my palette is just the right shape to where it's I'm, I can, I can call easily with it. I, you know, the learning curve wasn't that, and he was pretty good with his calls too.

Speaker 2: 18:45

So I took right off and there were some, some local people we knew that had bow hunted and were calling and and we'd go like, all right, let's hear your bugles, and we'd bugle. For him he's like, oh, that's really good, that's pretty good. But until that opening day of season I'd never really heard an elk bugle in the wild. Before We'd watch lots of videos but I'd never heard a bull bugle in the wild. And when I heard the bull bugle and then grunt, I'm like, oh yeah, my grunts are they're not right, they're, they're, they're not right at all.

Speaker 2: 19:17

So, listening to the bulls, you know, that season we, we chased bulls every morning before school. So I killed my bull early, you know, third day of season. He ended up not getting one, but so every morning before school we would go hunting and then on the weekend we'd hunt. So we, you know, we had a pretty much 30 days straight that first year of bow hunting and, uh, so by the end of season I could, I could call pretty, pretty good for for the calls we had back then, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:43

Well then, how did you cause you? I know I think was it you. I know that there was like a thing in 08 and 17,. You were at the Rocky mountain elk foundation. You had you know one calling contest. But previous to that, when were you, uh, first kind of involved in doing some contest and realizing like, hey, this is something that I'm really good at? And also was there people who were kind of approaching you early on when you were doing this and saying, hey, I kind of want you to work with us and maybe try this call and doing any kind of promotion, when you kind of took that to another level of having a professional aspect of it or any kind of sponsorships, when did that aspect of your kind of, you know, outdoor career come into play?

Speaker 2: 20:28

well, I started competing in the elk, calling in like 1994, and, um, a buddy of mine, he's like, yeah, you should go, you're really good. And him and his dad had won the bugling contest before. And, um, he's like, yeah, you should go, you go, you're really good. I'm like I don't know, finally talked me into it and I went and I don't think I won until the first time I won. It might've been 97. And in 96, maybe I won first or I won second. My buddy won first. And I'm like this is dumb, we shouldn't compete against each other. He's like, yeah, his dad owned a calling company, so he competed in the pros. Then the next year, the year, I won first, so then he won first and then I won first, so we could both win Right. So it just made sense, he worked for the or his dad owned a calling company. So, fast forward over the years, and then, um, it wasn't until 2017. Did I have any kind of opportunities with any kind of you know, um, sponsorship type stuff for elk calls? Um, you know that the other my, my buddy, and his, his dad's, his dad's company, I guess I guess he did wasn't really looking to, you know, you know, to do any kind of sponsorship stuff at that time. You know, he'd give me calls and stuff, but never give me anything else. So, and I met Jason Phelps in oh it must've been 2012. And, um, that same buddy that I that I competed um elk calling with, then him and I started an elk hunting magazine called extreme elk magazine and Phelps had sent us his story about his big cascade Roosevelt that he shot that's a giant 360 bull. And so we'd met him at, I think, shortly thereafter, at one of the calling contests and got to be friends.

Speaker 2: 22:22

And then, in 2017, well, 2016, even before that, he's like, yeah, man, if you ever want to do anything, you know with calls, you know, let me know. And and I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of loyal to my buddy and his dad and this and that. And then, um, fast forward a few years. I'm like you know what? I'm not really getting anywhere with this other company. You know what? I got somebody here knocking on my door, beating on my door. He wants to do business, you know, wants to do some cool stuff. And I like him, I like Jason a lot. He seems like a great guy. I'm like, yeah, let's do something. So then, um, I designed the the Maverick diaphragm and, uh, then it just took off from there.

Speaker 1: 23:02

So, um, and then in 20, 2019, then I went full-time, full-time working for Phelps as a marketing manager was that kind of were you wearing a bunch of different hats all at once and it was just kind of under the umbrella of the marketing or like what. When you were first brought on, what was that idea of, like, what you were going to be doing on kind of your day to day, and what was that like for you uh, making that transition into that in a full-time role?

Speaker 2: 23:35

Yeah, so that was my, my, my. My job title was, uh, sales and marketing manager when I first came on at Phelps. But not to exclude other things, you know whether it was product development, project management, you know whether we had some new stuff coming out. You know, like, dealing with vendors, help dealing with vendors and getting everything put together and get the stuff shipped here on time, and you know, yada, yada, yada so we can get this thing to market. Yeah, and then production, film production, content creation, editing I kind of wear lots of different hats Social media management.

Speaker 2: 24:15

It was kind of the deal like, yeah, you can come to work for us, but what are you going to do? I'm like, well, I can do this, this, this and this, anything you want me to do. Basically, he's like, all right. I said I'm like anything you're too busy to do, cause, mind you, at the time Jason was still working a full-time job at the state of Washington and he's like, well, you know, I could take some stuff, could come off my plate. So, um, I was able to do take a lot off off of his plate, you know, over the over the next couple of years. And that was. That was pretty nice.

Speaker 2: 24:43

And then you know, to this day, you know my, my job titles even changed even more. It was it changed to like now now I work for meat eater, so Phelps is my, is my, you know I, I work under the Phelps umbrella, but but meat eater is is I answered to a meat eater boss and I, and you know meat eater sends my paycheck, but I don't really answer to my meat eater boss, so he doesn't really has anything for me to do, like it's all still felt. So you know, jason, I talk every day and we're working on all of our, all of our, all the felt steps, stuff behind the scenes, so, and I'm still editing all the videos and and a lot of that kind of stuff. I'm still managing social media and, um, doing a lot of marketing roles still.

Speaker 1: 25:25

So well and you're also doing some podcasting work there, with cutting the distance you guys are are. Is it still the plan? You're kind of doing every other one and I know that you know that's that was kind of when you brought on to do that. Why don't you talk a little bit about that? I mean, I know you did the Bugler broadcast podcast for a bit and you had a handful of episodes there and even Jason on there. But then when you started kind of coming in and, uh, you know, taking on that role too, so that you guys could both um, I you know kind of cover different grounds and some of the same together, why don't you like, uh, mention a little bit about you know kind of what, what that's like for you and what you set out to do within your episodes that you're, uh, you know, managing and hosting?

Speaker 2: 26:05

Yeah. So the bugler broadcast podcast was uh, was my baby, uh, under my, my channel, the bugler um on YouTube and on podcasts. And about the time I was getting going good on that, then, um, phelps game calls was acquired by meat eater and part of my part of the contract was I start putting all my content efforts into the Phelps bucket. So I quit putting stuff on my channel and start putting everything into the Phelps. And then, but at that time we didn't have a an opportunity for a podcast. And after, after the first year, then, um, jason was given the opportunity to do the cutting the distance podcast. Remy Warren was leaving and they said, hey, jason, do you, would you, you know, do this? And he's like, uh, I think he reluctantly accepted. He's just like, ah, I guess I could probably do that, um. So then he did it for a year or so and then they're like you know, and it was only a twice a month um podcast, they're like, you know, if we got Dirk involved we could do two more episodes a month and then it could be, you know, once a week. So they're like, yeah, let's, let's do that. So then I got invited to be a co-host or host on the podcast. So by design I'm supposed to do two a month and he's supposed to do two a month, but sometimes we get our our scheduling crossed or he'll be busy, he'll be, he'll be gone doing something and he'll like hey, can you do these? And then whenever I get back, he'll reciprocate and kind of fill in where right. So he'll take my two and then a couple other two and then I'll, and then he'll fill in mine. Um, you know, it all averages out. Yeah, and so that's been good.

Speaker 2: 27:46

Um, and podcast doing really well. You got a lot of, you know, the downloads are really good, a lot of listeners, um, and we try to do, you know, listener questions every so often. Um, because, um, you know, people can, can send an email in or, and I have a super secret number they can call in and, uh, they can. You know, maybe maybe they'd just rather just call and say say what they want to say, and then I can play their message and then answer it like that. I kind of like to do it like that. It seems a little more personal, yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:10

Do you want to share that number with us now? Do you have it committed to memory or we'll put it in the show?

Speaker 2: 28:14

notes. We'll put it in the show notes. Let's do that because.

Speaker 1: 28:17

I don't have it memorized. It's that secret. You have to go to the show notes, y'all. We're not going to say it out loud, we don't. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 28:31

Well, remember you had that in in the bugler broadcast podcast and that was, you know, a really cool idea. And I saw that and you were like, hey, you had the number. And I think it's a really great thing, because I've asked people during podcasts you know, hey, what kind of questions you have and sometimes you get them. But I think sometimes people are just like I don't really want to type it out, you know, just being able to call and say blah, blah, blah. Hey, I really want to type it out. You know just being able to call and say blah, blah, blah, blah. Hey, I really want to know this. I'm in this situation. What call sequence should I try? Whatever it is?

Speaker 1: 28:47

And obviously you've been doing, you've been hunting elk for like 35 years about, and so you've had a lot of situations that you can talk about. And I wanted to run into one question because you mentioned earlier about like how that area that you had hunted was one of the largest, uh, you know groups of elk, one of the uh, you know habitats there, and in an interview that that I I saw you kind of talking back and forth about how like those were the good old days there and that things have changed and you know, I know that there is this idea too of of the introduction of wolves and you know how they have maybe decimated certain elk populations. Yeah, and I was curious and I think there was one time you talked to about weather being a big factor one year and then the wolves came in. It was just kind of like you know, a situation of all these errors kind of having it, you know, a devastating impact, and I was kind of wanting you to walk through what.

Speaker 1: 29:42

When did this change? When did you know? When were the good old days? Uh, you know and and are, do you see things changing now or do you still see a lot of difficulty in the areas where you're hunting and what you're kind of talking about there?

Speaker 2: 29:55

Yeah, so yeah, that that region, idaho, it's they kind of dub it the clear water region, um, and it's, it's. It's a pretty large area. I think that area is probably over 3 million acres of mostly Forest Service land. And back in 1910, there was a great they call it the Great Fire or whatever and it burned the entire backcountry of the Clearwater region and on up into the panhandle of Idaho, up towards Kellogg, idaho, I mean way up north, and millions and millions of acres burnt.

Speaker 2: 30:28

And fast forward to the thirties, forties, fifties and sixties in Idaho. Well, all the all the vegetation started growing back, made fantastic elk habitat, and so it was. It was, that was the boom time, you know. You know the seventies and sixties and forties, like, like my dad was saying he's, like there were trails you could could have drove a Jeep, elk trails you could drive a Jeep on, almost if it was pretty vertical, but they were that wide, like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of elk everywhere, anywhere you look, there was elk all the time. So you go from that to where, by the time, you know, I'm able to hunt elk. It's still really good compared to today, um, but it's nothing compared to what it was even in the seventies and early eighties. Um, I did a podcast on cutting the distance with a guy named George George Beatus and he'd hunted that famed Clearwater country back in the seventies and early eights and it was incredible. You know the story he told about it. I didn't see that in my time Things had gotten, you know, less elk, you know, by the time I was able to hunt, but still really good. So you start having an aging forest. So you have less grasses, the brush, the shrubs, everything they're starting to mature and get tall, really tall. Yeah, you have less, you have less feed, have less feed on the winter ground. So you know a habitat does have a does, does play a part in this overall. But also, you know they were on a slow decline between that, you know, and the number of, you know, predators. So bears were, were, were taking a pretty good hit there in the eighties on on the elk and the Clearwater region. Um, they, they'd done lots of studies and you know they, they, you can even buy a, you can even buy two bear tags in that area to this day because they're trying to, you know, curb the, the number of predators in that area. But um, so by the time, you know, 1995 comes along, that's, that's the year they introduce wolves to Idaho, reintroduce, reintroduce wolves, right, so they reintroduce these wolves to Idaho in 1995.

Speaker 2: 32:35

And then in 96 we have a 100 year winter. You know, it came early, you know, in October, you know, we had giant snow. People were, they got their, their camps and their RVs and stuff snowed in in the back country. They had to leave them. They barely got out with their life type of thing that year. And then the snow never left until probably February, that next February, and then we had these big warm schnook winds they call them, and it warmed up and started melting snow.

Speaker 2: 33:03

And then now we had floods. You know, you know, rivers were swollen, people were, roads were getting washed out and um, I lived in the little town of saint mary's, idaho at that point, up up north, and and the town was getting flooded. And you know it's just a crazy, crazy time, right, but during that winter of 96 those elk just took a, a pounding, you know, they they had like a 80 to 90% die off in certain areas, you know, in North Idaho, and um, the wolves hadn't got a real good stronghold at that point. So by the year 2000, elk were on the rebound. Pretty well, um, I felt like from what I was seeing hunting, it was very similar, if not as good or maybe better than what I'd seen, you know, previously. And then I started hearing howls, I started seeing wolf scat and then, from about 2000, three on then, the elk just kind of disappeared. You would no longer heard bugles, you no longer saw rubs, you no longer saw tracks, you never, no longer saw elk sign um in a lot of these places. And, uh, by 2004, I, I hunted up there in that area and I was just like man, I'm never coming back here until they get rid of these wolves and or this place burns again, because the habitat was pretty choked out at that point. Well, a lot of that country is burnt now, but this more of their summer and fall type habitat, not the winter habitat. But the wolves are still there, not as many as there were Like in 2007,.

Speaker 2: 34:38

There was nowhere in North Idaho you couldn't drive in the mountains and look out your window and see wolf tracks. There was wolf tracks everywhere, all the time. Anywhere you went you could see wolf tracks. Nowadays it's almost like it's kind of like when we first started seeing wolves on the landscape. You'll see wolf tracks and wolf scat from time to time, but nothing like it was in like 2007,.

Speaker 2: 35:01

2007 for me in my area it seemed like that's when it kind of peaked for the numbers. And then now, um some years, you won't see much for sign wolf sign at all. And then the next year, like, uh, in 2022, I didn't see that summer and that fall I didn't see any wolf sign in this area. I hunted with my rifle 2023, wolf sign again. So you know, I think where the wolves live is kind of cyclical. Maybe they'll live in an area for a while and they find that there's not a lot of game. They move on and they may come back eventually to it. So I think that's kind of what, maybe what I've been seeing. But that Clearwater region you went from like having 24,000 elk on the landscape to about 2,000 elk within three or four years.

Speaker 1: 35:48

That's a huge difference, right? What did that do for you, because I'm sure that there's so many frustrations that come into play when something like that happens. Was there another spot that you would go to hunt or other states that you would travel to, or were you kind of just sticking it out a lot of times there and kind of hunting what you knew?

Speaker 2: 36:08

Yeah, at that time in my life and with my time off and stuff to go hunting, you know I'd have a week a year to go hunting and then maybe a weekend. So I tried to hunt, you know, close to close to home. So I would try to like. You know, it was almost like having having having a big breakup with a, with a, with a girlfriend, or getting a divorce from your hunting spot. Right, it's like, man, I love that place but man, it just did me wrong. So you kind of give up on it and then you go to try to find new places.

Speaker 2: 36:43

But I'd always always had to kind of hunt fairly close to where I live, just because of the time I had off and I worked a lot of hours in my, on my day job, you know, all week. I was working 60 to 70 hours a week so I didn't have a lot of time to goof off and scout and stuff. But as time went by I think in 2010, I changed jobs and then I had a lot more time. You know I had weekends off and I had a lot of vacation time and I was able to get back in the swing of things. But I kind of started hunting some of the same old spots again. It's like you kind of get sucked back into those bad relationships, right.

Speaker 2: 37:14

But the good thing you know what some people they don't understand. They'll see like, oh yeah, well, you got that area and you have some success. But I know that area like the back of my hand. I know if the elk are not here, probably going to run into some over here and if they're not there they're going to probably be over in this other spot, whereas if you had to come in cold Turkey you'd never been there. You know, let's say you were hunting from as a non-resident, you'd come in and you might spend 10 days and not even find elk because big ugly country, nasty country with an elk they're hard to find in that kind of country. You can't glass them, you can't like get up on a high perch and glass there's just there's so much timber and foliage on the, on the brush that you hardly ever see an elk in the open. So binoculars are almost worthless in a lot of that country.

Speaker 1: 37:58

Well, and there was. You know I was thinking about that kind of environment there and I was, and I'm not exactly sure I know you'd mentioned it in the video, but you have the ghost of the North woods. Where, what area were you filming that in? That's North Idaho, okay, cause I mean it looked like some serious terrain, thick steep. I mean it was so challenging. And so whenever you're talking about that, I have this idea and I think everyone should go check out that video. It's a really good one. And, man, you change a truck tire fast, by the way.

Speaker 2: 38:27

Yeah, yeah, that good. Well, I spent 18 years working for in the tire industry, so so basically basically a pit crew. I mean, yeah, a one man pit crew yeah. Like.

Speaker 1: 38:38

I can do all this at the same time myself. But no, that that it was, and that video too, for those who haven't seen it. I don't want to like tip anything off, but it seems like there may be a part two to that. Is there a part two coming? I remember there was a talk at the end. Again, I don't want to leave much out, but no, no no, that, yeah it.

Speaker 2: 38:58

I'd like there to be, Um, but last, so that that hunt was in 2022. Um, I haven't got my 2023 season edited yet, so I didn't hunt up there in that same spot in 2023. Um, and then 2024 looks like I'm going to be in a different spot again, like the opposite of that. It's going to be big, steep, wide open type country by the looks of what I got coming up. So maybe it's a 2025 project there. You go To get to go back up there, but I don't know. I still run trail cameras up there. I've got some soaking on that same ridge where I called in that giant bull. I'm hoping they'll go up there and I can't get up into that country until like July of of this next summer. So you know it's the snow doesn't leave, it's like impassable until July. So I'll get up in there in July and check my camera and see if he even came back or not.

Speaker 1: 39:50

But um, anyway, that's one of your biggest bulls you've seen to date in um in the flesh, or at least in Idaho.

Speaker 2: 39:57

No, in 2001, I called in a giant bull that was found the next year dead wolf kill and it's a 400-inch bull and it's a bull that's incredible. It's got 24-inch brow tines and thirds and fourths and the mass on the burr is like probably 15 inches around the burr part. It's, it's an incredible and I I I highly doubt you'll ever see an elk like that come out of North Idaho again. I hope so. I'm like very hopeful. But yeah, that bull was old, he had great genetics, he had, you know, good feed. He had, you know, good feed. Um, he had, you know, the perfect life, but, um, anyway, so that that bull on that, that that bull, uh, ghost bulls of the North then, um, he wasn't that big. I mean he was big but he was the biggest bull I've seen in Idaho since since 2001.

Speaker 1: 40:53

So on so well and just to give you know I I am not an elk hunter, but I do know enough about what it, you know, quantifies big bull. But for those who are listening, who maybe not, when you're saying you know a 400, I mean, that's a massive bull, what is that kind of what? What would you give people in saying like this is an average size bull and this is a big one, like what is that? Stretch there just for for listeners who may not, you know, kind of gather that.

Speaker 2: 41:16

Yeah, so North Idaho, um, I think a really big bull typically is that 320 to 330, class A, 340 is fantastic and if, if you find one that's over 340, like a 350 type, 350 to 370, that's it's unheard of. Um, I know probably maybe two or three people that have killed a, uh, a three, 50 type bull or bigger in the last decade and maybe the last 20 years, and I know I could probably count them on like two or three fingers. There's just there, those kinds of bulls are not on the menu. Um, the country doesn't lend itself to that. Uh, the winners are hard. Um, there are hard, those elk, my trail cam pictures.

Speaker 2: 42:00

I run a lot of trail cams and I'll leave them set all winter, so I'll put them up in July, I'll refresh cameras, cards in July and through summer and then I'll leave them and then a lot of times I'll pick up elk coming back into that same habitat in about may and those, those elk, are just basically skeletons with some hide on top of them. I was like those bulls they'll have, you know, the first three points coming out, their nubs coming out, uh, as they're, they're climbing back to the high country, but, man, it's like it takes such a toll where they're worn down they're worn down like they're, you know, and in the areas in the valley, the, the river floor, you know, there may be four feet of snow in April, type of thing, depending on the weather.

Speaker 2: 42:45

They have a pretty rough winter in that kind of country from, let's say, may till August 10th when they quit growing, or maybe even mid July or whatever. Whenever they quit growing, you know they shed out the velvet usually the first week of July or August or so. But, you know, compared to other places, they have better winters, probably better habitat for winter time, less snow, better forage in the back country and all summer it just, you know. Um, so these elk for for what they they have to to eat and how they have to live. You know a lot of places you know, let's say utah, they don't have to compete with, you know, big predators like wolves, so they got bears and lions, but they don't have wolves that seem to to really beat them up pretty bad. So, um, the elk down there seem to grow a lot bigger and maybe they got better minerals anyway down there, who knows?

Speaker 1: 43:40

yeah, yeah well, you know I wanted to swing back because you just mentioned you know you haven't finished editing the 2023. Can you walk me through your you know, you know most recent hunting season? I know we're on the verge here of turkey and I kind of wanted to go there and ask you about what you got planned here in the immediate, uh, timeline. But let's, let's bring it back to this last fall. What was this like for you? Where all did you go? What kind of success. What's sitting in your freezer right now? What are you cooking on a day to day Kind of like? Let's, let's take it back to that, if you wouldn't mind.

Speaker 2: 44:07

Okay yeah, 2023 has been dubbed my worst elk season of all time. I had a tough year, man. It was tough. Um elk didn't act right no matter where I went. Um, I just did not get a lot of good bugling action. Elk would bugle a little bit, but it seemed like they were social distancing. Um, it would answer a couple of times.

Speaker 2: 44:31

Yeah, and then and you're like, okay, well, I'm going to do my normal thing and move up and get over there by them and the next thing you know, they're further away the next time they answer. And then the next time they answer they're further away, and then you may not get another one after that. Like it was really weird. Like usually they'll hold their ground pretty good. And I will say like when I I kicked off my season in Idaho and I wanted to hunt close to home, so if I did, if I would have done my due diligence better, I would have looked at the number of tags that get sold in this particular area and I would have seen, oh yeah, I don't want to go up there, there's way too many people. But I'm like, oh yeah, cause I've spent a lot of time up there in the summertime scouting and camping and and there's doesn't seem to be a lot of people in the woods. And I'm like, oh, this would be great and um had had trail cameras. I'm like, oh, man, I got some really good bulls on trail cameras. Like this place is going to be awesome.

Speaker 2: 45:27

I wanted to kind of hunt a little closer to home so my son can come, cause he had a at the time. He had a kind of a weird schedule and hard for him. He'd work nights and then he'd have a few days off and stuff. I was like, well, if I hunt close, then he'll come up and hunt. So we put together this plan. I hunted by myself the first three days of season and I was on bulls, you know right away, but they weren't super vocal, which that's pretty typical of opening weekend. You know, in Idaho they it's either you'll find one that's like, wow, he's kind of bugling pretty good, but these weren't. They were bugle enough to where you get close.

Speaker 2: 46:01

And then I kind of gave up for the weekend, the Labor Day weekend, because I know you know a lot of, you know recreationalists and people will be out there dirt biking and four-wheeling and just you know it gets busy and I'm like I'm going to go back to town for that madness, right. So as I was leaving, a lot of people were pulling in and and when I came back with my son a few days later, it's like the people that came on the weekend to recreate they might've stayed or they traded spots with, with hunters and man, there was a hunting camp and every single place that you can pitch a tent. It was crazy. And then there might be seven pickups in one one camp, and so you're like, okay, well, let's kind of hunt some obvious stuff that people drive by. I like to look, I like to find some of those places. Sometimes people are like, yeah, we got, we got to get to the back country, way far back, and hunt elk, you know. So sometimes you come from the road, yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:53

Yeah, sometimes you might find them in the and you might drive right by them, right? So we tried some of those spots and we were kind of getting fouled up. Anytime we'd hear a bull beagle, and like within a day somebody'd be there on them. And then I'm like all right, well, let's go to the back country. And then every trailhead like had seven, eight, ten pickups parked at it and it's like man, I'm not gonna fight this. So then we, this particular zone, had like three units within that zone. Okay, we'll try a different unit. So we tried a different unit. Same thing. Okay, we'll try the other unit.

Speaker 2: 47:23

Everywhere we went, lots of people. I'm like well, I don't think I want to continue to burn a bunch of gas trying to find a place to hunt here. I think we'll just call it because I had a Montana tag burning a hole in my pocket. And Austin, my son, he's like yeah, I can, I got some stuff to do around the house anyway, I'll go do that and then go back to work. So cameraman Dusty and I we left and Dusty had a tag for the other side of Idaho. I said well, hey, on the way to Montana, let's stop for a few days and hunt for you and see maybe we can get you a bowl. So and it's a, it's an area they call it a capped zone in Idaho, so they limit the number of tags they sell to residents and non-residents, of course. So with that in mind, you think, oh yeah, there won't be very many people there.

Speaker 2: 48:05

Man, it was just as bad as the other place. There were people camped everywhere and elk were just not acting right. You know, you would, you would, if you could get one to bugle, they would onlyle a couple times. And if you put a move on them and they clam up, and but I think, and then we start, you know people anytime we'd find elk, then within a day there'd be people around us and and I think people were having the same kind of experience we were, and that's why they were it seemed like there was a lot more people than normal.

Speaker 2: 48:33

I think typically when elk bugle, pretty decently, you go out to your spot oh, I hear bulls bugling you just keep going to that spot, you keep chasing around or whatever, and you don't really expand out too far because you're on elk, right. But I feel like everybody was kind of doing the same thing we were doing. We were trying to turn over every stone trying to find an elk that would play and finally, I think we were there five days. I'm like, hey, let's, let's go, man, let's go to, let's go to Montana, maybe we'll have a change of luck. And cause I had buddies up there saying, oh yeah, man, they're going good. Up here we're a couple of guys shot. Well, you know, people are shooting elk and and bulls are bugling good. So we get up there just in time for him to quit, quit acting like that we get there.

Speaker 2: 49:14

It's just like man, this is a ghost town, should have been here yesterday. Yeah right, I'm like man, that was dumb. We should have. We should have hit that other spot on the way home, you know, after we went to montana and killed one. So then we, uh, we fought pretty hard like the rest of september into, like you know, montana.

Speaker 2: 49:31

You can hunt in october in archery. I think we went home on October 5th or something and, yeah, I didn't draw my bow back until September 28th, 29th, after being there from the starting bell through hunting most of the season. Yeah, it was rough. And then I missed. I missed a big bull. I ranged wrong so there was in a big Doug first, and of timber, you know, these big, it's big, open, no brush, and there's just big trees and and I zapped a bunch of these trees with my range finder and I'm like, okay, yep, yep, that one's 50, 40, 30, you know, okay, got it in my head and it had been a little while. And then here comes this bull. I'm like, oh crap, and he gets behind this tree. I'm like, oh, yeah, that that tree, right, there was 50 yards. He steps out. I draw my bow and he steps out and he stops and, uh, I send it and it goes right over his back. That tree was 40 yards, so shot right over him man, that's tough man.

Speaker 1: 50:36

Yeah, I mean, I guess it better to clean miss than you know the opposite right, right.

Speaker 2: 50:42

So then, uh, we hunted hard and um, changed areas a lot just trying to, you know, get away from people, find bulls that would bugle, and we bounced around there, um and uh, yeah, end up coming. I'm coming home shorthanded man um.

Speaker 1: 50:57

Did you get some other hunts with some other animals, I mean?

Speaker 2: 50:59

are you?

Speaker 1: 51:00

still going after deer, mule, deer, like what is it? What else did you get some success with.

Speaker 2: 51:04

So then I went rifle hunting for elk. So I got home on like the 5th or 7th or something, october and I turned right around reloaded and headed out. I think I got home on the 5, the fifth, I turned around and left on the seventh to hunt rifle in idaho, up in that great burn country, and, uh, yeah, I got my ass handed to me. There too, they're just there's just not a, not a lot of elk and, and this last year there was way more people than I'd seen in 2022. So it's, it's kind of weird, like I don't know. I feel like sometimes the, the fishing game kind of turn people onto areas.

Speaker 2: 51:42

You know, maybe they're like oh yeah, you guys should go try that area, you know that's in the middle of freaking, nowhere I mean like, stop, that's my spot. Yeah, yeah, this place is remote as can be and like I got a guy, a guy that fell, followed me up the trail and got in front of me on opening morning type of a thing you you know, and I was at the trail first and he thought he should. I mean, we're in the middle, I know you got a hundred miles of road. You could have picked a trail anywhere to go up and he wanted to come on this one. So anyway, you know it was a bad experience. It didn't have much. It was a really good camping trip. Let me tell you that, the good camping trip. Let me tell you that the weather was beautiful, it was really great for camping. But but uh, so then went to montana with phelps, uh, deer hunting.

Speaker 2: 52:22

Well, I, I went a little early and and tried my hand at some rifle elk hunting in montana, because I still had that montana elk tag. Burn all my pocket and all the elk I've kept finding were on private right. That's kind of like the, the, the crux of rifle rifle season, montana, you know elk move from the high country and then, you know, get a little snow on the ground and they move down on the private and that's where they're at and that's kind of what I ran into. I did find some on public the last day I was there, but I was unable to get on to them. They're too far. But, um, and when you're sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 52:54

I was gonna say, when you're hunting rifle, what, what?

Speaker 2: 52:56

caliber, you're sorry go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 52:56

I was going to say, when you're hunting rifle, what, what caliber you using? Uh, what grain bullet and like? What is your range of, like, what you feel comfortable of taking an ethical shot at?

Speaker 2: 53:06

Yeah, my, my typical like elk hunting rifle is a 338 Win Mag. Um, I shoot 180 grain uh Nosler Acubon bullets. Um, the, uh, the uh federal custom shop. I have to get them out of there. They used to make these as factory ammo but they discontinued them. And then I mean, I'll give you an award if you can just go down to the local sporting goods store somewhere and buy a set of .338 Win Mag

Speaker 2: 53:34

shells. I've seen the super cheap Winchesterchester PowerPoint. You know the same bullets I was shooting in 1989. Right, I seen some at the sporting goods store the other day, $95. They were the. They were the first ones I'd seen, not 338 wind mag I'd seen in the store for like four or five years and they were like the cheap, crappy, the crappiest ones you can buy for 95 bucks. On the flip side, you could buy 300 wind mag in that same style for like 49 bucks. Yeah, so it's just like ah, come on, guys, this, I don't need them that bad. So, anyway, I get them out of the the federal custom shop. They're expensive but they're basically like hand

Speaker 2: 54:11

loads. Um, yeah, so great, great, great shooting um rounds I can shoot. I've shot consistently out 600 yards because I got a loophole with a dial. I got the dial and I've got the range finding binoculars. That has all the data for my gun, sure, and I can hit consistently out to five, 600 yards. After that, once you get further than that, then a lot of other things really become crucial. You know so I'm not comfortable shooting past that, but I ended up shooting my deer in in montana last year, 400 yards with that gun but right on, tell me about that deer.

Speaker 1: 54:44

What would you, what was that one scoring and or you know where it was? A little bit of background, it was a white tail.

Speaker 2: 54:50

It was a white tail and what we kind of come to find out was montana deer were kind of on the decline the last couple of years and it was going to be a tough hunt. And I said I told Phelps, I said you know what? The first decent deer I see, I think I'm going to shoot it Cause I don't want to. I've had a tough season. I got to take some meat home, deserve a win.

Speaker 2: 55:09

Yes, the missus is not going to be happy with me if I come home with no meat again, meat again. 45 days you've been gone and there's nothing to show for it. So we get this deer spotted and I'm like he's looking at through the spotter. I'm like, is it a mature deer? He's like, oh yeah, he's like I'm shooting. He's like, well, you better come look so I go over the spotter. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, that's definitely a shooter. So I go lay down and I I shoot it. But um, um, that was that was glad. I was happy, super happy to get that that monkey off my back and broke it down and brought it home and then fast forward. We go to Kansas whitetail deer hunting, you know, and we're like, oh, this is where it's going to be, cause Kansas, the place we're going, our buddy Randy has has lots of nice property. You know he manages herd well. He feeds them. You know whether it's supplements or crops. He's got these deer live in deer heaven, right, is this Newberg? No, this is our buddy Randy Milligan.

Speaker 2: 56:06

Okay, so he owns this property there, and so we get out there and the first evening we sat on stand. You know this is November. You know we packed for cold weather because the year before it was pretty cold when we were there, it was 78 degrees in the stand. The first night on the stand we're sitting there and I've got the zip off overall, fleece overalls and I got my legs zipped out and I've got them legs off and I'm almost sitting in my underwear there. I'm just like this is ridiculous. So the weather was warm all week and it was not conducive to good deer feeding. You know, typically during that type time of the year he put.

Speaker 2: 56:50

Our buddy Randy puts his stands on on food sources, whether it's where there's food plots or like on corn or something where the does will come and eat the corn and then the bucks don't really care too much about corn but they'll come in and check the does that are on the corn and then they'll just kind of move through. But none of the deer gave a crap about corn. They didn't care about the food plots, they were staying up in the timber and stuff. So had we, if we had been more prepared, if we had had some like tree saddles or some, some stands, you know, you know to set up in trees and like pinch points and travel patterns. I think we'd have done really good but uh, the deer just weren't hot, weren't hitting the places we were at.

Speaker 2: 57:30

Phelps ended up getting a nice buck and then I missed. There we go again. We got a nice weather pattern. In the night that the weather came in, phelps killed a buck and within 15 minutes I'm full draw on a big buck. It called in from like 150 yards. It called in with our new ground call and I don't know if you're familiar with a redneck blind. It's an elevated blind made out of fiberglass I think, and it's got windows and stuff and it's got a couple like picture windows and then it's got these long skinny windows in the corners that you can open up and they're about 12 inches, maybe 15 inches wide. So you open them up and then you can kind of you know if you're a contortionist or maybe a little guy you can like get over there and shoot through those windows.

Speaker 2: 58:15

Good, but I had to to dusty and I had to kind of cameraman dusty. He had to kind of change spots with me. This buck's coming. I'm like, oh man, if he goes across there, I'm I'm thinking he's gonna come on. He was on a beeline, I thought he's gonna come into about 30 yards. Well, at the last second kind of veered off and he went by at 50. So I'm like man, I gotta change position here. So I get out on my knees and kind of push up against the side of this thing and get my bow drawn. And man, man, I, I stop and I'm like okay, and I shoot and I'm like, ah, I think I might've got it.

Speaker 2: 58:48

Couldn't really tell. You know, I shot a lighted knock and it's getting pretty pretty dark out. You know it's in the last, the last bit of shooting light. I see my, my, my, my light did not go over there and then kind of do a little bounce thing in the background. Like you know, it could have blown through him and and and been, you know, behind him there. But so he, he kind of trots off. I'm like, okay, fall, fall, fall, fall. He walks over back along the same line he was. He took earlier to get there and he walked over and then started making a scrape. I'm like, oh, no, I missed him.

Speaker 2: 59:23

And so I hit my grant call on my my bleak call again. I thought, okay, I'm going to call him in. And he kind of looked over there and just like, no, not again. He's kind of walked off and by that time it was too late, it was getting too dark anyway. But uh, when I went over and looked at my arrow, of course it's clean as a whistle, but it was a giant like 160 inch, you know eight, point, you know four by four white tail. So that was, that was. That was very, very crushing.

Speaker 1: 59:49

Very crushing. So you got some redemption this fall. Huh, I mean, where all are you going to be heading out this year? I know you're probably getting some plans together. I mean, obviously we're on the edge of turkey season. I'd like to ask you about where you're going to go there too. But what do you have planned for your elk hunting and maybe some deer hunting this fall?

Speaker 2: 1:00:06

Idaho for sure. So I have a good buddy who lives in Wyoming, cody Wilson. He and I went bear hunting last spring together, him and I and Corey Paulson, our business manager at Phelps. We went bear hunting last spring in Wyoming and he's been wanting to come to Idaho for a long time. I'm like, hey, why don't you see if you can get a tag? You know cause for a non-resident. It's like a whole ordeal trying to get a tag and it's like I don't know if you're going to get one. I mean, they call them over the counter but it to kind of run the gauntlet to get a fricking tag in Idaho these days. So he gets a tag. I'm like, all right, so we're going to go. So him and I are going to go the last two weeks of September.

Speaker 2: 1:00:46

Um, and I have a buddy, um, this uh guy named Bradley Damerman. He's a. He's a guy I went cat hunting with uh, shot that big mountain lion with and shot a bear with him and Jason here a couple of weeks ago and I went with him and Jason got a mountain lion with him. So he's going to come hunting with me, elk hunting with me. I told him I said all right here because he he's an outfitter, right, and it's hard for him to get away. I said, all right, you have to come this year, I don't care what it takes. I said I will even come and guide the first week. If you can book a hunter that was going to book later in the month, if you can book them the first week, I will come and guide for you the first week of season, just so you can get out later. And I think it's going to work out. I don't know, I may or may not get to guide, but depend on the schedule of as far as what he's got booked, but either way, he said he's coming, so cool.

Speaker 2: 1:01:32

I'm pretty excited about that because, um, he's a hell of an elk hunter and, and, uh, really good caller. So is cody. They're both excellent elk, an elk hunter and really good caller, so is Cody. They're both excellent elk hunters, elk callers. So it would be good to have guys who can reciprocate for me. But then also I can't think of a couple of better guys to call in a bull for, because they're both just awesome dudes and they're going to work hard and be fun to be with. So I can't wait for that. That's going to be fun. And then, of of course, there's draw tags. We'll see where the drawings end up here, maybe, maybe I'll get it to do some more hunting, you know um, for elk and deer have you done much stuff down here in texas no, I came down there one once for elk shape camp and I went.

Speaker 2: 1:02:14

Some guys took us out and we went hunting hogs at nighttime with thermals. That was pretty fun. Um, but that's the only time I've really done anything in texas cool.

Speaker 1: 1:02:23

Well, I got a couple spots, man, if you guys ever want to come down, I'm happy to host you guys out there. We got one in southwest texas, about a thousand acres, one central texas, about 300. Got a lot of, uh, melanistic deer at that one. I don't know if you're familiar, but, um, yeah, we got it's just a wild population. In texas there's like seven counties where there's more melanistic white-tailed deer than the rest of the world combined. It's just a very, very bizarre thing. But you know, you're just like looking. All of a sudden you see this black deer walk out. What's that? It's pretty cool, though. It's pretty neat to see. Um, well, moving on to the idea like turkey, turkey season, man, I mean, I, I know I am Jones and I am, you know, days away from the season starting over here Do you guys have any plans to uh, to get out there and do some Turkey hunt in your neck of the woods or or traveling what? What does that look like for you?

Speaker 2: 1:03:08

Yeah, yeah, so Turkey season can be really full. Um, I'm gonna start the opener April 15th in Oregon. 15th in Oregon. Uh, I've got this old old guy, this old buddy of mine that I met. He's not super, we haven't known each other in a long time, but he's, it feels like he, he we have. So, um, I'm meeting him at the uh, portland sportsman show in 2017, maybe. And, uh, he, as a young man, he hunted all that same country that I grew up hunting, um, that same back country and um, anyway, so we started swapping stories and stuff and then, um, fast forward, one fall.

Speaker 2: 1:03:43

I'm, I'm elk hunting and I hear a rig coming. I'm like I tell cameraman Dusty. I said, hey, the rig coming hide. So we're hiding. We're standing on basically on the other side of the pickup and he can see our feet and he pulls up. He's like I see your feet over there. We came of the pickup and he can see our feet and he pulls up. He's like I see your feet over there.

Speaker 2: 1:04:04

We came out and it's it's him, it's my buddy, ron hewitt, and I had never told him where I hunt. You know, I told him where I used to have, but I didn't ever tell him where I hunt. Now I'm like and he didn't tell me he's, he didn't tell me where he hunted either. Now I'm like, oh, this is where you're hunting, huh. So just so happened we were hunting the same dang spot and so anyway, we've become good friends over the years.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

So every spring he, he, he invites me to come turkey hunting over there, and so I'll go over and spend some time and he's kind of like that cool grandpa or cool uncle type guy. You know, I don't get enough of that kind of time. My, my dad's passed away and my grandfather's both were long passed away. So I don't get that kind of that kind of time and I think that's important. Um, to feed, feed your, feed your soul or, you know, help you be a man or whatever. I think that's important. So I always go um, enjoy my time with Ron hunting turkeys in Oregon.

Speaker 1: 1:04:50

No man working with the elders and the mentors of the past there I mean it's or mentors of the present but like being able to have that time, that camaraderie. And you know, especially as hunters get older too, they might not have the same ability to get out as they used to, but being able to spend that time and pass on that knowledge and those stories. And you know it's, it's, it's man, it's immeasurable, it's such an enriching thing. So that's that's great, that you have that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:20

So then you got, you got Oregon there, checked off, and then so, yep, and then I'm going to, I'm going to drive home and the next day get on a plane and drive and fly to Kansas. Our buddy, randy Milligan, out there, out to his place where we hunt whitetails, he's going to have us come out again. And so Phelps and I, we both drew tags. So in Kansas you got to draw a turkey tag now. So we both were lucky enough to draw a turkey tag. So we'll go out there for I don't know a week, five days, whatever. And and uh, hunt that. And then later in may, um, we're gonna do some stuff in washington state. Um, so, randy, our buddy, he's gonna come out, we're gonna, we're gonna take him hunting. So we're gonna, we're gonna hunt with him, chris parish and, uh, james Harrison, they're all coming out. And then we're going to hook up with some other guys.

Speaker 2: 1:06:00

So there's a guy that's got a YouTube channel Um, john, I think it's John Weick, weick, weick, weick. I don't know W E, I K. Anyway, I think Phelps had him on the podcast, but his YouTube channel is Northwest Spur Chasers. And then, um, our buddy, uh, samong Yang, he's got a YouTube channel too. It's um, uh man, I don't really, I can't remember what the heck is. It's like Cy outside or something I think it's called. But anyway, we're going to hunt with those guys up in, up in Washington state and, uh, just give turkeys hell up there. There's a lot of you know lots of turkeys in Washington state and and we're just going to, we're going to track them down and call them in and shoot them Nice.

Speaker 1: 1:06:44

Are you guys filming all these hunts or?

Speaker 2: 1:06:46

is there some?

Speaker 1: 1:06:47

where you're like this is yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:48

Yeah, I won't. I won't be able to film with with Ron, cause he's got some access to some private property and the the the landowner said hey, I just prefer you not to film, cause I think he don't want people identifying that property Like hey, that's that spot, maybe I want to go trespass, so, um, so I want to respect that, um, but we'll film in Kansas and we'll film with those guys up in Washington state, um, and we might even just have those guys host the film on their, their YouTube channels. I think they've got a better turkey following than we do. And then, if I can, I want to hunt in Idaho, if I don't run out of season first. Yeah, but I'd like to hunt some of my old stomping grounds up where I grew up, because up where I grew up is, you know, there's lots of turkeys up there too, and I might.

Speaker 1: 1:07:37

What's your season then? What is that for Idaho?

Speaker 2: 1:07:40

I think it ends, uh, the 27th, 28th of May. Okay. So right before right before Memorial Day weekend is typically ends. So um depend on what when Memorial falls, but um yeah, so I might have time to squeak in another hunt up there with my wife or maybe a buddy or something.

Speaker 1: 1:08:01

So nice man. Well, it sounds like you got some good plans. I'm excited to see those films when they do come out. Um, yeah, I was kind of curious too are you guys still I know you joined up with the elk collective, you and jason, a handful of other folks is that a project that's still happening right now? Or are you kind of diverted more with the stuff with phelps and under the meat eater and you know kind of connection?

Speaker 2: 1:08:23

yeah, we've, we've, we've. We stepped away from the elk collective and um, um to focus on, you know, phelps and meat eater and stuff. But uh, but now, uh, the elk collective, they've, they've partnered with Eastman's, I guess, okay, so, so they're, they're continuing on with new cool content and the guys at Eastman's no doubt know their stuff, so, so that's, that's still going to be a really good resource for people that want to learn about elk hunting, definitely.

Speaker 1: 1:08:50

Yeah, well, I know there's still some videos that you guys had put on, some you know things, so it's still like a there's a resource for people that are joining that to see what you got to share, cause obviously you have a wealth of knowledge, um, and, as as far as you know, I even saw you know when, when I was watching the, the, the ghost uh, you know video. When there's a lot of things that I'm sure that you guys are planning on putting out, is it usually about a year from the time you guys have filmed something to come out? Are you guys kind of putting stuff okay, you got deer hunting or elk hunting and then that next year you're putting it out right before the season? Is that kind of a typical turnaround for most of the things you guys are filming?

Speaker 2: 1:09:27

Yeah, you know some of it was um there for a while. We would, as soon as season would get over, we would edit like crazy and try to have it ready to go in january, february, march time frame, um, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of a lot of elk hunting to watch during that same time. There's a lot of folks, you know, producing content during that same time from there earlier in the fall. So, um, and then that's a really busy time for for us with trade shows right, right and budgets and trying to figure out the next year to come. You know that's a really busy time for us. So, rather than you know, kind of work like like a madman during December, january, then we're trying to space it out to where we get, get the stuff edited in a good amount of time and then try to have that come out maybe midsummer or like Juneune july, august somewhere in there.

Speaker 1: 1:10:18

So yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I kind of kind of forgot about the trade shows. You guys kind of boom recently. There's been so many. I mean it's like how many of you guys are? Are y'all going in person? Are you doing most the ones up in that area?

Speaker 2: 1:10:30

well, typically, um, we'll have three or four every year during that same, during that january, february time. But this year we had a little lighter load because they did a Western hunt and the Portland show at the same same weekend. So, but then we had to split the team. So Jason Phelps and the crew over there, they went to Portland and manned the booth and my wife and I and our our other dream I call them the dream team Cause it tried to get a dig on Jason somehow but me and the dream team then we went to Salt Lake city and man the booth there and then we, coming up in April, we're going to be at the mile high show.

Speaker 2: 1:11:07

Um, phil Mendoza down there is putting on the, the mile high uh expo there and that that should be really cool. He said, you know, um, the, the sports show that's been going to to to Denver, colorado, for a long time, is just doesn't maybe represent the hunting community like it used to. And he, phil, wanted to to to build an excellent show, kind of like the Western hunting expo, something that's just very representative of the of the hunting community, and and get all the, all the good key companies there that um, and not have a bunch of you know, like chrome polish and like um, those little electric massagers and fishing lures and stuff that you see at some of those shows. So you want to kind of build a a definitely like a Western themed um hunting show. So we're pretty excited about going to that. This'll be the first year for that show and I feel like it's going to be a big hit. Hopefully see lots of people there.

Speaker 1: 1:12:02

Nice. You know you got a few questions left and one of them is kind of about you know one of the things you're taking to the woods. I know that the Maverick Signature Amp Call is one that you know I've heard you talk about in some different interviews and podcasts. That's kind of one of your go-tos, um, and obviously you got the renegade signature. You know bugle tube there. I was curious, like what are aside from those, maybe, um, what are some calls you know for elk that you would suggest people check out, um from the Phelps line and I know you've also mentioned before hey, it's good to get a couple different types to try different, you know. But maybe some suggestions for people who are wanting to. You know, maybe maybe some beginners that are wanting to get into it or folks that you know, maybe some of the new lines you guys maybe have coming out this year that you can kind of tease and talk about, just kind of looking for some suggestions on that yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:56

So, um, especially for new callers, um, you just never know. People always say, well, what's what's the easiest one to blow for a new caller? Well, it's hard to hard to know or quantify what a new caller's point of reference is on how hard to blow a call. Um, one person may think I need to blow this super hard because an elk is loud and I need to be really loud. And then another caller they, just they. Maybe they don't have that kind of like pressure to blow a call that loud, or maybe they don't want to blow and maybe they want to be more stealthy. Maybe they they've heard that maybe you shouldn't blow calls real loud. So, but to define that on a person to person basis is impossible, right, like I'll. I'll ask people point blank, like well, how do you think and they're like I don't even know how if I blow harder or if I don't, I don't know. And so what I like to do?

Speaker 2: 1:13:48

I like to recommend three different, three different calls that have three different, basically different, latexes. So I'll always recommend a Maverick. Our Maverick is a thick latex, tight stretch, which equals harder pressure. So, if you want to, if you feel like you blow hard or you don't know how hard you're going to blow. That Maverick is a good one. And then also we have our gray amp. So that's kind of that middle of the road latex kind of a medium thickness, medium stretch. So you don't have to blow it nearly as hard as you do a Maverick. If you blow super hard you may overblow the gray one, but if you don't blow hard enough then you may not be getting the performance out of that gray one that you want either. So that's why I also recommend our black amp. So our black amp has red latex and it's kind of a pretty thin latex with a pretty tight stretch, so it doesn't take much air pressure at all.

Speaker 2: 1:14:43

And you can and you can, you can get some really great notes out. You can bugle, you can cow call all three of them, you can bugle and cow call with Um. But after you play around with one of those you'll be like, oh, I really liked this one or that one, and then. So then I recommend whichever one you feel like most natural with or comfortable with. Then practice with that one and that's the. That's what I would be like.

Speaker 2: 1:15:05

All right, every day, practice with that thing, and you don't have to practice, like for an hour a day. Keep it simple five, 10 minutes a day. Just get that muscle memory to where, every time you put your diaphragm in your tongue knows oh, I know what we're supposed to do. I don't feel like I need to gag or throw up. Um, I know how much pressure to put, how much tongue pressure, how much air pressure. I know exactly the spot. There's like a little sweet spot. You put it on your tongue and once you kind of get that muscle memory after I say, if a person does this like 10 minutes a day for a week or two, it's going to become second nature. You'll, you'll, you'll pick it up pretty quick. So then practice, practice, practice with that one that you like and then, after you get pretty comfortable with it, go ahead and pick up one of those other two that you that you bought in the initial and play with those a little bit. Because a lot of times what I find people will will start out with this one as a beginner. They manipulate it best. But then, once they kind of understand airflow and how to manipulate the call, they like one of the others better. They're like well, I like this one, but this one's way better now that I know how to blow it. So, and then, with those three calls in mind, let's say you like the certain one, but maybe you don't want to blow so hard or maybe you'd like to blow harder Then we have these other calls in between those as well. So we have a call for almost every single nuance, for the, for air pressure, for people and how they want to blow it.

Speaker 2: 1:16:30

Um, then we also have, like these mini, mini amp calls. So they're, they're just a tiny diaphragm. So there's there's a lot of guys and gals and kids that have a narrow palate. And it's weird. You might think, oh yeah, that guy's six, five and 300 pounds. There's no way that guy needs a mini amp. And you look at, he'll open his mouth and show you like, oh wow, you've got a really narrow palate. Well, here, try one of these, and then they can use them. So that mini amp has been a game changer for a lot of people. So I recommend those diaphragms.

Speaker 2: 1:17:02

And then we have this new I prefer that Renegade bugle tube. I love it. It's just, it just kind of goes for my kind of calling, and maybe that's because I'm just used to it too. I've I've used it a lot and I'm used to how much air put into it. But we came out with this new call. It's called the unleashed V2, this new bugle tube, and that the cool part about that call is it's got two different mouthpieces that come with the call, basically the elk bugling system. So it has an external bugle mouthpiece. It's called the easy bugler. So for people who just can't use a diaphragm at all maybe they've tried them and they're like, eh, I gag, or they tickle, or maybe folks with dentures, um, they just can't, they just can't use a diaphragm. So that's a. That's the perfect. The perfect solution is that easy bugler mouthpiece. Or, if you don't want to use it that, then it comes with the, the um, the, just a flared mouthpiece for diaphragms, so you just kind of pick your poison there. So that's a really versatile call. It has a really nice neoprene cover on it. It's got a. It's got a stretchy lanyard that goes on there. It's, it's we've.

Speaker 2: 1:18:09

We took everything that we didn't like about bugle tubes and everything we liked about bugle tubes and put it into one tube so we could try to have like the most, the most up-to-date current bugle tube on the market. Right, like you know bugle tubes you can't really do too many things to a bugle tube to to take it to the next level of of technology. So we just kind of took everything we could possibly think of, including, you know, the engineering of the inside of the tube. You know to try to get the best, the best um, the sound, the best sounds and the best back pressure you can get Um. So that that's a great, great way to go If a person's looking to get into to, to calling you don't have a bugle tube at all. Um.

Speaker 2: 1:18:48

And as far as new products that we were coming out with this year, um, we kind of showed them off a little bit at our uh Western hunting show and at um at Portland. But it's called the all American three pack and we've teamed with three world champion out callers. So we got Jermaine Hodge, eric Berglund and Tony Gilbertson. So these guys are world champion out callers and we said hey guys, we want you to design a diaphragm that be your signature diaphragm and we want to put it in a three pack. So we're going to sell each gentleman's gentleman's um diaphragm and that three pack so you can pick up the three pack and then try them out, see which ones you like.

Speaker 2: 1:19:25

And I feel like down the road, in a year or so we'll probably have singles of of each of those.

Speaker 2: 1:19:30

But until people try them and it's kind of see, and they're all in all three, I was like a little bit worried because all those guys love the maverick, right, I'm like great, we're gonna have three maverick copycats here, but they're all very different from the maverick and they're all very different from each other. So I was like delight, I was delighted, I hadn't even tried, I hadn't even tried these calls until the show like I got. I got a package of them at the show. I'm like all right, all right, I'm gonna try these. And they're all very different, they're all good, um, so I think people are going to really like those and and it seems like people always really like new stuff too Like, oh, I want to try something new this year and maybe see if they find something that's just perfect for them. So it's definitely, they're definitely a different nuance than any of our other calls. So I think people will want to want to check those out.

Speaker 1: 1:20:24

Well, and I also remember there was an interview you were talking about. It's good to have, you know, in different sounding calls too, because, like, maybe there's a bull that you have been trying to call in and it's just not closing that distance and it's not getting there, whereas then you might have something has a little bit different nuance and a different sound that may be of interest, because maybe that first call wasn't working and sometimes having that kind of variety can come in play because it sounds like, you know, in any kind of hunting situation you got to have any tools you can use in the toolbox. If you limit yourself to one call, that may be a detriment, right?

Speaker 2: 1:20:50

Right. Well, yeah, absolutely. It's just like fishing, right? You don't just go fishing with one rooster tail in your in your tackle box. I mean you got, you got every fricking spinner known to man, you got flies in there, you got potski eggs, you got power bait. I mean you got, you got everything there is in your tackle box, right.

Speaker 2: 1:21:07

So that's the same with with elk hunting, diaphragms. Especially especially if you're a new caller and maybe you can't get all the different sounds out of one diaphragm, maybe it takes having three, three or four different diaphragms to make those different nuance sounds, then then that's just that's. That's great, it's a win If you can, if you can take that to the woods like that and like that easy bugler mouthpiece I kind of talked about on that, that new bugle tube. Then let's say you're chasing a bull, you're a diaphragm guy and you're chasing a bull one day with diaphragms and you don't get it done, you could go back, potentially go back the next day with that easy bugler and take in again and he's going to think you're a different bull because it's definitely got a different sound profile to it and maybe he won't be. He won't suspect it's that same guy that run him ragged the day before.

Speaker 1: 1:21:56

Right right, you won't suspect, it's that same guy that running ragged the day before. Right Right, well, and another tool in the toolbox, too, is the easy sucker that you guys have that. I've seen a lot of people talk about having great success with that, so that's another one that I think you know people are getting into it. We should check that out as well, and we're going to be doing some giveaway. Details will be, you know, kind of announced when this podcast actually drops and you know, so we'll have it all in the notes. We'll definitely have people get a chance to, uh, get ahold of some of these and try them out.

Speaker 1: 1:22:22

Um, and before we go, I, I, I wanted to ask your opinion. Someone had been asking a lot of the folks that have been coming on, uh, is their idea of like legacy? And obviously, you know there's two aspects you can say in a professional legacy and your work and what you're doing, and obviously in a personal setting as well. You know you and your family as a family man, and I just kind of wanted to, you know, ask you is that something you think about a lot, is that?

Speaker 2: 1:22:53

something. As you know, the years go by, you're wondering more about what it is that you will be remembered for and the things you leave behind, and just kind of wanted to get your thoughts on that. You know, I haven't really put much thought in that at all over the years, too much. You brought that up earlier, before we got on there, and I don't know. I think I think one thing I would like as far as being a part of this hunting industry I feel like maybe a legacy I could leave behind or maybe be known for later on is like I want to try to leave it better than I found it Right. Like I want to try to leave it better than I found it Right. I want to build good, strong relationships. I want to do good business with people. I don't I don't want to take advantage of people, because there's a lot of sharks out there and then it's industry and and others, of course, I think it's everywhere. But I just want to. I want to, I want to leave it better than I found it and if, if anything, I don't want people to be like like, oh yeah, I met that guy. He's a, he's a good guy. You know, I I don't want to try to come across as a jerk or a pompous a-hole or whatever. I want to be a. I just want to. I just want to get along with everybody and and, uh, I want to leave this place, this, this industry, better than I found it.

Speaker 2: 1:23:52

And, if I can, if I can share my knowledge with what I've learned along the way, I'm happy to do it. You know, because when I started elk hunting they're just there were some people that were sharing resources, but it wasn't the same as it is today, like technology and everything is advanced so much with with YouTube and apps and all this stuff where you can learn. I mean you can learn whatever you want to learn nowadays. Back then it was like, well, I, I mean you can learn whatever you want to learn nowadays. Back then it was like, well, he had a VHS tape and maybe he read a book and the information hasn't really and, um, it seems like I tell people the same kind of, the same kind of stuff that I learned, you know. Back then it's like you know, okaying up, they do this, they do that, and but, uh, anyway, I I'm happy to, to share what I've learned, um, um, with people and and I think that for for me, you know, just like my, my professional legacy, maybe that's what it'd be.

Speaker 2: 1:24:58

Just try to leave this industry better than I find it. And if I can help someone and encourage them and maybe give, I always say elk hunting will change your life. And if that's your reason to live, if that's your reason to to work hard at a career to make money, if that's your reason to to to work hard at a career to make money, if that's your reason to to become fit or become, you know, to make healthy choices, if that's your reason to be a better husband or a better father, whatever that reason is, if I think elk hunting can, can change your life and the people around you, so, um, if I can help people do that, that's a, that's a huge win to me.

Speaker 1: 1:25:36

That's a great answer and I, you know, I know you've talked about it, I know I've talked about on the podcast a lot of different guests what we get going out into the outdoors and some of those things. Like you said, you know health, your exercise, you're getting out there. Um, you know it's good for your mental health getting out there. I mean you talked about it with your father coming back. I mean I know a lot of different veterans, uh, that that is something that has been something that's helped keep them here when they've had different struggles and it's so empowering. And you know it's not just always about I think people are like oh, you're going out there and you're a dominating deer, you know you hear from the antis or whatever, and it's like we're, we're enjoying this way of life, we're putting food on the table with our family and we know where it came from. I don't think you can get more authentic than that and you're being a part of that landscape. And you know I, I know you've talked to about like, you know how great it is to have a group of you know people in your you know camp, whatever it may be deer, elk, Turkey, whatever it is like. You have that camaraderie and you know people who are working with each other, uh, it's that is a huge importance. But then also, getting your time out in the woods and I know you've talked about that too it's like there's also an accountability. Hey, if I mess up, it's on me, right, but it's like, but when you're out there and you have that, uh, that you know it's a spiritual experience. It's it's different for each person but, um, it is something that is so soul filling and it's so fulfilling all in and of itself.

Speaker 1: 1:26:57

So, you know, I, I, I love being able to, to bring people out and share that and, um, being able to introduce people into hunting and I know, when you're able to, at your level of experience, uh, being able to, you know, give these tips and tricks and pointers and things to people to be able to advance their awareness and they can have more success, which will probably, you know, want them to get out there and do that more or bring other people into the fold. I think that kind of thing is contagious and that's the type of spirit that we need to be able to bring to ourselves in this outer world of of, you know, that true, authentic connection that we have out in the world. So I, I, I definitely you know that reverberates a lot with me and what you're saying there too. So you know, I appreciate you sharing that and I appreciate you coming here and talking with me today. And you know, I know our guests are going to learn a lot.

Speaker 1: 1:27:46

For those who are interested in following your journey, can you give some of your, you know your social handles, what websites to follow? Obviously, we've got Ph game, phelps game, calls and you know with, with the meat eater umbrella. Why don't you just go ahead and give you know some of these handles in places where they can, uh, you know, learn more and maybe watch some of these videos we talked about?

Speaker 2: 1:28:04

Yeah, so on Instagram, um, I'm on there, I'm, I'm the bugler the bugler. One word, um, same with YouTube. So I've got a bunch of uh content on there, of my old content, Um, I'm hoping to put some new stuff on there. I'm, I'm, I'm really hoping, crossing my fingers it could happen. Um, and then on Phelps game calls YouTube channel, of course, um, all all of my hunts for the last, I don't know three or four years are on there, as well as with Jason Phelps, Um, and then Facebook the bugler as well, Um, so those are the best places to find me. And and um, I do lots of podcasts, you know, with other folks, and then cutting the distance, of course, uh is the one Jason and I do. So if you want to check out, if you're a podcast listener, which you probably are, if you're listening to this one, um, yeah, yeah, Check out our, our, our list of different podcasts.

Speaker 1: 1:28:53

You may find something to interest you on there. Yeah Well, you guys got some great guests. You have some some great information that you're sharing on that. It's a great podcast. I really suggest people go and check that out. And uh, once again, man, I really appreciate you coming out here today and we'll be in touch and you let me know when you're ready to come on down to Texas, man.

Speaker 2: 1:29:08

All right, that sounds great. All right, you take care. Yeah, thanks, bud, you too Cheers you.