Speaker 1: 0:15

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Son of a Blitch podcast. I'm your host, george Blitch. Today I had the honor and privilege of sitting down and having a wonderful conversation with Jim Shockey. For those who are not familiar, jim is a Canadian writer and outdoorsman. He has published over a thousand articles in his lifetime. He is the television host and producer of multiple award-winning shows and he is just a wonderful, wonderful human being. He's also the founder of the Hand of man Museum, which I highly encourage you guys to all go check out online and in person if you're ever through the Vancouver Island area in Canada. And today we can add another thing to his amazing list of accomplishments, and that's being a novelist.

Speaker 1: 0:59

This book, call Me Hunter, is his debut novel. It comes out today, october 17th. It's in stores everywhere and I'm going to go ahead and say it right now I believe it's going to be a bestseller. It is a phenomenal book, a page-turner, and it is, as he describes, an autobiographical, abstract, fictional thriller. And it really is that. The threads that you can find throughout this book tell his story of his life, and it's such a wonderful life at that. And this book it's just. It's hard to put it down. It is a phenomenal book and he talks about this in the podcast, so I won't bore you with the details now, because he's going to be telling you about it and he does it a lot better than I do. But this book is phenomenal, guys, you're going to love it.

Speaker 1: 1:47

Check out this podcast, enjoy this conversation. Jim really opened up and shared a lot of personal things and I was just astounded and just honored. It's one of my favorite interviews I've done to date and he is just such a wonderful, wonderful man and I'm thankful, jim, that you joined us today. And thank you all for listening to the podcast and watching it If you're on the YouTube platform. Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in. I do this because I love to share the stories, messages and works of all these amazing people I've come across my life, and Jim is one that fits all those bills. What a great guy. Again, everyone go check it out, order it today. Call me Hunter. By Jim Shockey, and thank you, guys for tuning in without further ado. Here is the interview with Jim Shockey. Hey, jim, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing?

Speaker 2: 2:42

Well, good as can be these days. It could be better, but yeah, making it through day to day right now.

Speaker 1: 2:50

Well, I completely understand and I know this is so much going on in your life right now. Your book is going to be coming out. This podcast will actually come out on October 17th, the day that Call Me Hunter will be in stores. This is the advanced reader copy over above me. Here is the official release and, for those who are just hearing about this for the first time or may not be familiar with anything about this book, can you go ahead and talk to us a little bit about it? Maybe give us a quick synopsis so we can dive deeper into some other questions, but maybe just a brief description of this book and its content and tell us a little bit about it.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Yeah, you know, I knew at the age of 10, a that I'd have a museum, which that's where I'm coming to you from right now, but also that I'd be a novelist. I was a voracious reader by the age of 10. So I started my first novel then and I realized real quick, you know, I mean A, I couldn't spell B, I couldn't write C and, most importantly of all, I didn't have a story to tell. So I knew, okay, you know the museum, I can start collecting insects and pretty rocks and fishing lures and seashells, but a book, a novel, to be a novelist to me you had to live life first. So so I started living and I dedicated my life to living, literally, you know, and favoritably. In 1993, I sat down and I started my novel again. I penned those first lines that it starts with Zhevaigo was dead. I hunted him down and I killed him. I penned those lines and I wrote that first page and I, and as I started thinking, when I sat at my typewriter at that time and and you know, thought about it, I went, you know, I still haven't lived enough, I still have not lived enough life. There's two ways you can write you can be a novelist, you can. You can go to school and become, you know, get a piece of paper that says you're, you know, have a degree in literature or creative writing, whatever it is, and then you sit down and you start writing. That's one way to do it. The other way, my way, the only way I know how to do it is to live. And so in 93, I said, okay, I still got to keep going. In 2016, I decided that my last international trip, when I was traveling over 300 days a year for 20 years. At that point I decided Mozambique, october 2019, I was done. So I was booked that far in advance, three years in advance, so 2019, november, I sat down and figured okay, it's time You've lived. I mean, you better start. At this point you can't. You don't have a whole bunch more actual time to live this life, and if I didn't start writing I wouldn't get it done. So I sat down and picked up those same lines. Javago was dead. I hunted him down and I killed him and wrote my story.

Speaker 2: 5:52

So back to your original question. It is, literally and figuratively, my story. It's a. If you had to slot it in a category that doesn't exist, it would be an autobiographical fictional thriller. You know I'd call it an abstract fictional thriller because it's it's. It's like I say in the preface, it's like cubism. You can see what you're looking at. You know that it's a human being, but but it's abstracted, it doesn't quite fit. So that's where I've I've used, you know, literally, a visual art to apply it to a written art and and that's where you ended up with with Call Me Hunter. So it's my story, it's literally my story.

Speaker 2: 6:45

I say that in the beginning and that I would love people and again I said it in the preface to to dig deep into it. Dig like, whatever you're reading in there, go research it, go find out, you know, find out if it's true. And I think what, what you know, you know how I feel about that is and why it's like quicksand. If they keep fighting against suspended reality, you know they keep fighting against it and want to, they're going to struggle more. The more you struggle in quicksand, you know, the deeper you sink into that novel's hold and and so.

Speaker 2: 7:26

So, yeah, it's, it's, it's my story of, of, and I say in there you know, living a life beyond the pale, you know it's not if there's a bell curve curve of lives, how people live. You know, with the center being I don't know downtown New York City, with a Java, I don't know wherever and everywhere, you push out to the edges. I'm definitely out on on the edges of of how people live their lives. So so that's, that's what the story is about. It's a fictional book. I I tongue in cheek. I say that it's 80% fact and the 20% that would put anybody in jail. That's the fiction part. So yeah, so yeah, it's, it's, it's. I had a lot of fun writing it and I'm looking forward to to hearing what people think about it, because it's different. It is different.

Speaker 1: 8:19

Well, even like Jack Carr talked about it, one of your friends is like it needs its own bookshelf. It is its own type of thing. There is that autobiographical element, the fictional thriller, that abstract cubism type of thing where you know, I found and we'll kind of dive into this here you know, it kind of starts out with Nila getting a manuscript. This girl who's just, you know, kind of freshly out of college and she's working, you know, in the journalistic field, and here she is, she gets a manuscript and I'll kind of maybe let you jump into that a little bit more, but in that manuscript it's written to her and as she's starting to read this manuscript and learning about that, oh, it's connected and it's written for her specifically and this person knows her and she's going through this journey. You have it's, it's, it's a different, like flashbacks of time.

Speaker 1: 9:09

And I knew that when I realized that there was going to be some autobiographical elements to this, that this was going to be something, that, hey, I need to fact check this. And so I did exactly what you suggest readers do and I suggest everyone do that the same. While she's fact checking things that she's getting in the manuscript, I'm fact checking your book and learning things about you Canadian, you know, national team water polo champion. Here You've got you know your, your time and your honorary stuff with with the Canadian government. There there's so many things that the main character, one of the main characters, has, and you can see these time shots where you're placed in it and I see, understand that idea of you having to live your life in order to be able to write this down, because your story is all throughout this book.

Speaker 2: 9:55

Yeah, it's, it's pretty cute. I had, someone else had an advanced reader copy and they, you know, they said they'd dealt in to it. He said, yeah, but look, you know I. He said what am I going to do? Ask Lonnie Anderson, you know he's kind of snickering, thinking okay, that's one that you couldn't. And so I said well, you know it's, if you're going to research, it's about desire. There's no limit to your ability except for your desire. And if you didn't dig deep enough. So I just, you know, made a few do, do, do, do, do, google, google, google. And and I showed him, you know, because he was speaking about specifically a dinner that I reference in the novel at a restaurant in Vancouver with Lonnie Anderson.

Speaker 2: 10:36

You know WKRP, and since, then, Bert Reynolds and Stephanie Zimlis, you know, who played with Remington Steel, whatever his name was, and Michelle Lee, one of the biggest soap opera stars in the 1980s. You know, a dinner with them. And another fellow, laszlo George, the Hungarian photographer, who was the photographer on a movie that they were apparently doing, and then an absolutely beautiful, most beautiful woman that the character Icarus Hunter had ever seen in his life, you know, at this restaurant. And and so this this fellow was was an Icarus. The character was in the in that the dinner, and so he was kind of laughing say yeah, yeah, I mean, that's not possible. And I said so, I, I just sent him a, a cast list of what is it a tale of three wives in Islam Anderson, stephanie Zimlis and and Michelle Lee and Louise Johan, which is my wife Louise's maiden name, you know. So he wouldn't have picked up the shockey, but the Louise Johan, and Laszlo George was the cinematographer on that particular movie set, you know so.

Speaker 2: 11:58

You know, lonnie Anderson can't deny it, she was there. I know she was there because I was there, yeah, I was there in the restaurant, and so was Louise, the most beautiful person, beautiful beyond beauty, that this character had ever seen. So so I, yeah, I mean I'd love people just go ahead research it, find out about the art references you know, go find it, find out. So it'll be interesting. And I think I even said in the preface that I hope somebody with a lot of money you know they, just you know what tries to wash away this problem with the money holes because they'll run out of money. And I say at the end, is it, you know, is it fiction, or maybe not? You know it's, it's. It's up to people to decide.

Speaker 1: 12:49

Well, what is it that you hope that readers will take away from this book? And I think I also need to kind of preface too. You have a two book deal, and this is not the only book, like there will be a continuation of this, yes, yes, okay, so there will be more for other people to dive into later, but as far as like, and we'll get to that. But what is it that you hope people can grab from this book and take away from it in that experience?

Speaker 2: 13:23

Tolerance, tolerance. What I've done in this book is I've flipped the stereotypes. The antihero is not, you know, the antihero is a hunter, or becomes a hunter, but there's no animals getting killed. Anyone that's listening to this that thinks they're going to it's a book about hunting. It's not, but it absolutely 100% is Not, is not, is what is it? But I flipped the stereotype. So the antihero, you know, who has his tragic human flaws, is also a hunter, but also a deep thinker, a philosopher in a lot of ways, exactly what the opposite of the stereotype in mainstream media would have hunters being. You know the, the lout that spits on the floor with no higher sensibilities. So I flipped the stereotype and I've made the villain an animal rights extremist. You know so. You and all through the book will play with people's. You know their, their, their ideologies. So you think that this is good, you think this is wonderful, this is good, yeah, I'm with this guy. And then, all of a sudden, you get, you know you get a, you know a right hook, that that lays you out that it's not what you think. You know right and wrong is a cultural perspective. We all know what's right and wrong, inherently every one of us. So that means a lot of what we believe is is cultural perspective, how we were brought up, where we were brought up and and in this world today we really have to start tolerating each other and our points of view and realizing no, the person's not stupid. You know, they're not stupid. I'm not stupid, but there's a guarantee. There's pile of people out there that think that I've got to be the most ignorant lout that ever walked this planet. You know, in the end of the caveman, but I'm actually not. So if I'm saying something articulately, you know I mean educated and and thoughtful about it and been around for a long time. So you know I technically am an elder, which kind of means I should have some wisdom from the you know six decades I've been on this planet. So maybe, maybe you're wrong about judging me. And that's what I've done in this book. I've created stereotypes but then flipped them and flipped them, and flipped them and created cognitive dissonance with people when they look at something and believe this is the way it's going to be. But it's actually not the way it is A quick story on that. I had a.

Speaker 2: 16:00

Someone else got an advanced reader. I don't know who they were, but they on good reads. They made a review and they said they only read up to the part where, you know, the fictional character, who's a young lady, is judging another character in her office that she works with and she fictional character talking about a fictional character that she called him an insipid, gender confused millennial with a man bun Right, and that's that was her. That was a bigoted, horrible comment. She was judging someone in her office and the person said I, you know, I never read, pass that. I will never. I was offended and I'm not, I'm woke, I'm not going to, I won't read past this point. This is garbage. And gave it a zero.

Speaker 2: 16:55

And so every one, or whatever they the lowest rating is, and and you know, it just astounds me that that person's ideology is such that they won't even read a work of fiction to see if maybe, and I know what happens, I know, I know the sequel. I mean it's because I live the life and and I know the character that she's judging and calls that I know what he becomes in the future. There's a bit of a clue to you, to anybody that's actually into this and and looking forward to the next one. I know, you know, and and this person doesn't know, but their own, I guess, close mindedness is keeping them ignorant and and so you know who's, who's truly the, who's truly the, the intolerant person you know, that person you know, or the person that reads on and and learns and and then goes. Oh, maybe I should rethink what I was, my ideology, maybe I was wrong, you know, maybe maybe I'm not wrong, maybe there's.

Speaker 2: 18:02

They have a point of view and and that's what I'd like in this book for people to take away as tolerance you know, we've been vilified and marginalized for probably 60 years now by mainstream media. People that live the outdoor lifestyle, feel the people living we, you know we go kill a deer and we eat it. You know that makes perfect sense to us as naturalists, but we've been vilified as being, you know again, like I say, louts. You know, throwbacks to some, you know, archaic age. We should, we'd rather forget and and trying to raise from our history. But it, you know they're wrong about it. They're, they're just they're wrong. And that's what I hope on this book. It's not a big world anymore, there's 8 billion of us, and we better start at least trying to understand the other point of view from the other people. Because what are we going to do? Eat each other, and rats would do that if you shoved them into one box.

Speaker 2: 18:59

So like I say tolerance is, I'm hoping, what people will take away from this.

Speaker 1: 19:06

Oh, absolutely. And you know you've traveled all around the world and that's something that when you travel and you eat people from various cultures, what you learn and the growth spiritually, emotionally and just mentally, like the things that you get from traveling all around these places and meeting all these people from cultures, and that's something you've celebrated in your show and you know that in different times, where you know even in your books that you've written previous to this about your, you know, hunting world and like that, there's so much that you've gotten to be able to bring into your life. And then I think you talk about so much that is about that idea of tolerance and understanding. And you know, to that example too, that you just mentioned the person who puts down the book.

Speaker 1: 19:48

It's like characters develop. I mean you look at you know Icarus and what he developed. You know he was going one way, he was a part of the our world system. And you know, if you want to maybe talk about our world and kind of maybe give people an idea of, you know that the gathering, the connectivity and such, and you know this, the artwork world, that is that kind of dark shadow world a little bit, maybe just kind of give people that idea of the kind of a synopsis of the storyline there too. But that there's, there's characters in your book that have these advancements, that continue to learn and develop, and it's it's. It's something that I think people are closed minded to, that idea. Who hasn't learned one thing and then gained another later on in their life? You know?

Speaker 2: 20:34

of course it is that you know you're speaking about our world, that's. That's the organization in the in the book that that you know they began with John Sotheby's, you know, way long time ago, antecedent, and it was created to locate the greatest works of art in this world. And you know these are cultural objects, they're cultural treasures for these countries. But they know that they, this organization that's funded by very wealthy people that get together at something called the gathering and then they auction off these, these fine works of art, the rest of us, greater unwashed in the world, will never get to see these works of art. The problem was that our world needed actual. You know how do you find these great works of art, these masterpieces? You know they're hidden away, they're there or somewhere in plain sight, but people don't recognize what they are. So you know, the premise of this book is that there's some of us in this world you know, eight billion of us that are born with an innate ability to feel beauty, to feel it, to feel the spirituality of a piece and whether they they feel it in. You know Icarus Hunter, the man of sorrows, chizu, he he when he sees the world in sepia tones, brown on brown, brown on brown, and that's how he sees the world. But when something of of unbelievable, you know, like from God, he is in front of him, he, he reckons he sees it in color. So that's his, you know, super talent, his gift, and that you know others. You know there's others. You know the, the villain, javago, he, he, you know, senses it in, in, like a smell, so it's like us, and he becomes a creature from the other world, a left crafty and horror, from the third dimension, the fifth dimension, that comes out and just crawls to the, you know, he feels, he feels beauty with, with a smell, so he follows it by sense, like a predator, that's, that's blind. You know a mole going after a worm underground, they, just, you know, that's his sense. Joan of Arc, another character, her, she had it literally thrust upon her that that talent so it doesn't mean you're necessarily an Aida can also be with a sorrow so great that you, you, suddenly, you know someone, gets idiots of odd, gets struck by lightning and the next day can play Mozart's. You know symphony and a minor sympathy for the devil. I'm getting my, I'm getting my symphonies mixed up so you can also be thrust upon you, you can you know? But? But so our world needed to find these characters, or these, these operatives that come, that had this and that's what.

Speaker 2: 23:46

That's the premise of the story. That there's a young boy that that can't read, you know. His teachers, you know, told the mother he's, you know, with something wrong with him. Is he slow as he better take him to a site, child psychiatrist. And when they do, they just the psychiatrist discovers that this kid is not just, you know, he's not slow, he's so beyond fast that there's just no measure for it. And so he's, you know, he's on the autistic spectrum. Probably we would call it nowadays, but it's 1962. It didn't exist back then, you know it didn't. There was no autistic spectrum. They didn't know what that was.

Speaker 2: 24:25

So with this, you know, and then the psychiatrist, child psychiatrist, endeavors to learn more about this child and of course that awakens it. It's a thread on that web that goes to our world and the they send a character, charlotte, to take care of business, to make sure this kid doesn't. You know, nothing happens to this kid. He ends up under the our world umbrella because they need those characters, and he, he turns out to be, along with Chewbago, the two greatest of the talents that have ever been discovered by our world in hundreds of years, with the ability to locate these masterpieces for the gathering, to sell to these wealthy people. So that's the story and it's deep state stuff in a way, because this organization is so wealthy and the people that patronize it are so powerful in the world that they control a lot of the world and what happens in the world, the wars. They can make the war, they can finish the war. They do it because war creates chaos In chaos. There's opportunity for them to find these, you know, steal these, borrow these, replace them with fakes, masterpieces from museums around the world to bring them to the gathering.

Speaker 2: 25:53

And you know, someone else, a reviewer, the other day, asked me you know, does our world exist? And I said, of course it does, it absolutely does. And all anyone of us listening to this right now, just look around you, look around you and see if you can't recognize the tenets of our world. You know greed, arvours, power, lust, gluttony I mean the seven deadly sins, you know. Look around you. They, of course it exists. And organizations exist. They're run by people. That, that's their entire existence, is those, you know, those terrible vices. So yeah, our world exists, of course it does.

Speaker 2: 26:34

And this, this is the metaphor, for you know what's happening in this world today and again, I'm hoping that by exposing that in a novel way, because you know we haven't been allowed to to say it out loud, you'll be canceled, you're not allowed to say it. You know a conspiracy. Oh, you know, you're, you're, you're a cuckoo, you know, and you get canceled and you're just a, you're way out on the fringes. But you know, you can tell stories, goodness sakes, schultz and Eatzen did it behind the Iron Curtain. You know, look at the writers from the Victorian era that were exposing, you know, alice in Wonderland, if you think that's not a metaphor.

Speaker 2: 27:23

Gulliver's Travels, I mean, these are, these, are you? You know Jonathan Swift, I mean these guys, they wrote these books because they weren't allowed to say what they were thinking. You know so, but you write a book about it, and a book is a metaphor, you know, and Call Me Hunter is a metaphor. Call Me Hunter is the truth. Call Me Hunter is real, and so is our world. So, so again, you know, and I'm, I'm. I'm not comparing myself to those great writers, although, if I can, if anybody one day down the road would say that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and I had you know we were, we were both good writers. I you know, I would rest easy for eternity. But but yeah, what I've done is is is tell a story about our world today, and and and, like I say, is it truth or is it fiction? It's for everybody to decide. It's abstract. You have to, you have to read it to make your own, draw your own conclusions.

Speaker 1: 28:27

Sure, well, that's the 80-20, right? There's so many times I was scratching at a story. I'm like which part of this is the 20, or is the 20 really a two?

Speaker 2: 28:38

Well, I guess I caveat it with the part that would put anybody in jail, right, right.

Speaker 1: 28:44

That's important and there's some things in the story that yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:47

I mean, you know there's so many things that aren't in the story. You know, I tried to get. I went into Iran Iran, back in 2004 and try to get in the next year, and my, you know, they said, no, you're a spy. And I tried to get in the next year after that and they said, no, you're a spy. And so I waited and the felt my connection over there, see, a Mac Connoisseur, great guy. But he was, you know, great guy, but he was part of the revolution on the student side. So he was, you know, he's an enemy at one time. But, you know, when the students lost to the fundamentalists, the communists and the students and the fundamentalists all fought after the Shah was deposed, the students lost. So he was put under host arrest and he could still travel within Iran, but he couldn't leave. But 2007, him and I decided, no, let's, because I went in 2004 with him and you know he was my connection there In 2008,. We said, okay, we'll try again. So I applied for a visa and then, all of a sudden, I couldn't get ahold of CMAQ, nothing off the grid, and so I didn't get.

Speaker 2: 30:02

Back in 2009, 2010, I found another connection and I got it. This time I got a visa and I went back into Iran and traveled all over the place. I mean, had a vehicle, we just went everywhere and you know I kept asking what happened to CMAQ? What happened to CMAQ? And finally, after about three weeks I think, they, you know they felt comfortable enough to tell me that CMAQ was at a family reunion with his wife, his two kids, his mother, father, brother, sisters, and you know, every single one of the extended family except one were killed. So you know, this is all real, this is real, and you know so when I'm saying 20%, and you know my tongue in cheek.

Speaker 2: 30:52

What was I doing there? What was I in Afghanistan for? What was I in Pakistan for? What was I doing in Azerbaijan? You know Kazakhstan, what you know what? What was I doing there? And this is why I want that question in people's mind what was he doing there? And that's the mixture of the reality, the nonfiction part, the yeah, the and the abstraction of what I was actually doing. Yeah, you thought I was there for hunting, pretty good cover. If you're doing something else, I would think. But hey, I'm just a storyteller, although this is a story.

Speaker 1: 31:35

It's a great one at that. I mean, it's riveting for anybody who is thinking about ordering this and checking it out. You know I highly suggest you do. There's so much richness to this. I'm learning a lot about you by, like you said you you suggest it in the preface like go and Google some of these things, find these things out, and there's I mean, I know that now going through and some of the characters and what is revealed you know I won't give any spoilers, but things that are revealed by reading it now, going back through and reading it through that lens of understanding, and I'm sure there's just more layers of richness that comes from that. And you know you talked about a lot of the different things you mentioned earlier, like Hunter, like reading or writing at a young age, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you had a similar thing with you and you were younger and you had some issues with reading and stuff too, right.

Speaker 2: 32:33

You know what's interesting about that? My grade three teacher because grade three I couldn't read. I mean I couldn't see Dick Run, see Jane go up the hill or whatever see spot does, whatever spot does, I couldn't read. And so my teacher, mrs Miller, she suggested to my parents that they take me to a child psychiatrist and have them tested Just find out what's going on here. Because this kid, everybody can read in the class except this kid. And Mrs Miller has reached out to me just recently. I sent her an advanced reader copy of Call Me Hunter. So it's kind of a full circle. Wow, yeah, the teacher that recognized that by grade three you should have some ability to read. And yeah, my parents did take me to a child psychiatrist.

Speaker 1: 33:28

It's in the book, In the book Hunter. At the time he goes to the child psychologist and this doctor recognizes that he can understand. He's looking through the pages. It's almost like a photographic memory of sorts. He's being able to absorb all the information to this book. They have a conversation about it, so it's not like that he couldn't absorb that information, even though the reading might be an issue. Is that something that you do? You have a photographic mind, Are you able to see these things and kind of get them? And that'll lead to some other questions too. But I was curious about what was that? Or was there something that you had that you had to work on to be able to kind of overcome some things when you were a kid?

Speaker 2: 34:13

Sometimes silence is an answer. What I do to a lot of people, I'll say you know, like Cody Robbins, I'll say you know what I like about you, cody?

Speaker 2: 34:22

And of course every single time he'll go what. Everybody wants to know what you like. And then I just don't answer and I say silence is an answer. So you know, that's the easy way for me to answer your question. The reality was I was bored, I didn't want to read that and I had a great interest in wildlife and animals and all things cultural, natural. And so the psychiatrist actually told my parents, you know, he gave me an IQ test and told them the results and said listen, you know, your kid has no problem with reading. Your kid just isn't interested in what the teachers are trying to get him to read, right. And they told my parents, take him to the library and take him to the wildlife section, you know, take him to the art section, take him to the sections of the library that he's interested in, and you know, please don't bring him back here anymore. So that was, that's the truth.

Speaker 2: 35:30

And, as I said, by grade five I was reading voraciously. I mean I was reading adult level whatever, it didn't matter If I was interested in it. I mean JA Hunter, his book Hunter was. I mean, that was my Bible in those days. You know, figuratively speaking, I read it three times, you know, in that one year, and I said it before, I was sent to detention by the teacher many, many times because I was reading JA Hunter's book, you know when I should have been doing what reading, whatever they're reading grade five. So you know, and I, which was great, I went to detention and I could read my book. Great thoughts, I know I would Show them.

Speaker 2: 36:10

I was a voracious reader by the time I was, you know, two years after that. But yeah, it's truth, you know truth. And again a tiny little bit of fiction. Do I have a photographic memory? I don't know. I do pretty good, but I wouldn't say that I have a photographic memory. The child in the book, the character Hunter, can read at a. He doesn't read, he assimilates what's on the pages. So it's not even a photographic memory.

Speaker 2: 36:39

It's an ability to just look at something and understand it. You know, page Okay, got it, got it with 100% retention. And in the book, you know I the character, nyalla the journalist, that is an investigative journalist. She starts researching about idiots of aunts and finds out that, hey, that's not unusual. None of this is unusual, I no. I rephrase that it is unusual. But it's not, doesn't exist. It does exist.

Speaker 2: 37:14

People can do that. You know, read 180,000 words a minute. I mean that's two novels in in in. You know, not a minute, but an hour. I mean you know the pages, basically can read it and they've been tested on it. You know tested. You know I think you'd probably want to take into account the who was doing the testing. And for, you know, follow the money. But but it's speed reading doing.

Speaker 2: 37:37

You know the assimilation of knowledge. We all know somebody who's just kind of brilliant. That doesn't you know. I mean I know guys, dave Ferguson, my buddy in university. He never studied, he played guitar the whole time and and he would go in and straight A's. You know he just knew the stuff. You know that's. We all know people like that. Well, now imagine that's one in say, I don't know, maybe it's one in 200, it's 500, but imagine if you have someone who's one in a million, or even more, one in a billion. Right now, today, there's eight people walking around this planet that have abilities that you and I can't even comprehend. That's a fact, because it can't be otherwise. It can't be otherwise, right, there's one in a billion. Whatever that talent is and I don't know what it is I mean little Mahomes there with the Chiefs. He's got some kind of special talents. No one can tell me different. You know so. So you know there's, there's, you know that's just a physical ability to play football and comprehend plays and and read the play ahead of the play. But there's people that have, have senses that that the rest of us just don't have, or we have, but we're, they're too, we're too busy in our cluttered lives. You know, on our cell phones we're doing our daily jobs, which is the death of creativity, you know so.

Speaker 2: 39:03

So, and I see it here in this museum, our Hand of man Museum, when anybody at Google it, it's, you know, 17,000 square feet, and it's not a regular museum. It's definitely outside the box on museums, but the reason it's called Hand of man is because the Hand of man Museum of Natural History, cultural Arts and Conservation. The museum is filled with things that are touched by mankind, humans, people, whatever the political correct, you know us, yeah, and so when you walk through here and there's totem poles carved, you know, by First Nations, there's beadwork by, you know, the American natives, there's mass from all over the world and outfits and wedding blankets from Siberia I mean, there's just every cultural thing you can imagine. And back to the point, I have people walk through this museum down the Grand Hallway we call it the Great Reveal when we open the sliding doors and they're in tears by the time they get halfway back, because they have a sense of the spirituality of everybody that made each of these pieces, because that's all that's left of them on this planet. More than likely no one remembers anything about them, but there's their work of art on the wall and their spirit resides in that piece, only 100%, just as surely as you and I are talking right now. You know God put it there or whatever. Your faith is Right. There's a spirit of the people inside that piece and the people that are really switched onto it. They're in tears by the time they come back and they're, you know. Thank you, thank you. Well, like they're they, they sense something that you know the rest of us don't have.

Speaker 2: 40:46

So back to Call Me Hunter. There's people that have abilities that we don't, we can't, comprehend, and there's powers and forces out there that are not looking after yours and my best interests. They're looking after their own best interests. So you know, does our world exist? Yes, Does Hunter, that character that turns into Icarus, that turns into Tzu the man of Swords, does he exist? Absolutely? And I mean Tzu, man of Swords.

Speaker 2: 41:16

Talk to First Nations out here. Does it exist? That story, that legend exists? Yeah, it does. Teaser, the man of Sorrows he shed his skin and covered in sores and he provided deer for the tribe, for the family. And then the soul catcher does it exist?

Speaker 2: 41:36

That's the whole premise of the story.

Speaker 2: 41:38

This soul catcher is the greatest single work of art that ever existed, ever created by man or God using the hand of man to create it. So what is it? What is the soul catcher and that's the whole premise is that our world has been seeking the soul catcher for hundreds of years and they are not sure if it exists or not, but they constantly getting vibrations on their threads and they're like a spider sitting in the second. In the center of it, the soul catcher is going to show up a vibration in the thread. Send the operatives to try and locate, to recognize it, because they don't know what it is, they just know it's the soul catcher. It's the greatest work of art of all humankind. So yeah, that's the premise. As you can see, I had a lot of fun writing it and it's a complicated. It's layer upon layer. You can read it on a beach, but you're going to miss. You're going to get the facile top level layer and the deeper you dig, the more layers there is. To call me Hunter.

Speaker 1: 42:46

Oh, it definitely is. That it's not something, that there were some times where I was confused and there's different. There's a character whose name we just mentioned changes, and so there's some times where you just have to follow it, but then those threads get tied up and you learn later on. Okay, I was confused, but now I get this, I understand. And then just the idea of it's not just a linear story. There's so many different angles and things that are over weaved throughout it, and it really is. It's a masterpiece.

Speaker 1: 43:18

I mean, jim, I'm beyond impressed and I really do feel like I think Jack Carr said it best it's like it deserves its own shelf. It's something that's just it's different and but at the same time, I feel like it's very accessible. Anybody who reads it is going to get a lot from it, and those people who dig deep, they're really going to learn a lot about you and about you know things that are on a larger scale, and I'm just, I'm so excited. What does it feel like for you to have been working on this in your head, for you know, 25 years, to have that printed copy in your hands? What is that like for you?

Speaker 2: 43:57

You know, it meant a lot more to see it in in Louise's, my soulmate's, hands. They, they actually overnighted the first one off the presses just to get it so she could see it before she passed on. And you know, and she held it because she's been part of this life, that that I've lived, that is call me hunter, and, and you know, so that was the culmination of our, you know, and she's sacrificed, you know, to and to write a book. You know it takes discipline and it takes motivation, desire, but it takes time. And when I'm sitting writing and I'm living in that world, you know I'm not, you know I'm not mowing the lawn or or, you know, just being with with Louise. So she sacrificed as well to make this happen. So that that that was really the.

Speaker 2: 44:54

The hype went for me was that Louise got to hold it and I read it to her out loud twice, you know, once at the beginning, on the earlier version of the manuscript. And then I rewrote, you know I added an ending different. I added four chapters from the second book to the first book, just to to wrap up ends, you know the, rather than leave it as a cliffhanger. And I read it out loud to Louise twice, and so she, you know it was very special for her and I, and to see her holding it was, yeah, that meant a lot more than me personally holding it. I said goals and I, I attain goals. That's that's, and I don't care if the goal takes half a century, you know, to attain. You know I'm capable of focusing for half a century, probably not anymore. I'm going to have to revisit the century. Longer, half century long goals, maybe 25 years, yeah, 30 years.

Speaker 1: 45:51

Yeah me.

Speaker 2: 45:53

I'm hoping for more but yeah, I understand what you mean.

Speaker 2: 45:56

Yeah, so to hold it, but, but again, I don't. You know, I've never lived in the past. It's not my style. I, what happened yesterday happened yesterday. I cannot change whatever happened yesterday. I made every decision leading up to yesterday based on my best ability and worked hard and never wasted a day, and I literally don't have a single regret. Someone asked me that the other day. I said no, none. I said come on, you got to have something. You know, there literally is not one single regret in my life, not one. And I, you know so. So that means you know I did everything I could to yesterday. Why would I have a regret about it? I did everything. So yesterday for me is is I live? I live in the present. You know, I'm here right now, with you, present. Yeah, I spend most of my, my cerebral time in the future. So so you know.

Speaker 2: 46:56

Back to your question. How did it feel? You know, great, the most important part was to see Louise, that she saw that this goal was attained, because she knew right from the beginning, she always felt I was a. Well, you know, she thought I was a great writer, and I'm using her words, I'm not saying that, she just loved. I'd read her the articles I'd write, I'd read her the stories I'd write and and it and it meant a ton to her, a ton that this book came out. You know, it's my story and here it is. This isn't a short story for a periodical, it's not. I've written thousands of those or a thousand of those. Sure, this is actual a story and but, but I'm trying to answer your question. And back to it again yeah, yeah, what did it feel like? It kind of felt like, okay, that's passed and what's what's next? Now, it's not, you know, anybody. You know now, sam and Schuster, new York City published it, so so I think I believe they're doing 125,000 copies, which is an incredibly high number for a first time novelist. But my, I, you know how did it feel? Okay, it feels like now the work really starts.

Speaker 2: 48:09

I need to get this book into people's hands because I do believe it'll change the perspective on, on, it'll act as a catalyst to change the perspective on hunting and hunters, field of table lifestyle, the outdoors people, the people that live in rural areas, that ranchers, farmers, I, I, I believe that this book will start changing the urban perspective on who we are, you know, and that's the majority is their urbanites. It needs to get into their hands. They need to. They need to the the tolerance isn't necessarily pointed at you and I, you know, I think we let. I mean, I haven't met anybody yet in our world that I don't mean our world, the organization that isn't a good person, a good family people, they're, you know, they they just and they tolerate people. They oh, yeah, okay, yeah, that's what you are, that's, yeah, that's what you believe, that's great.

Speaker 2: 49:07

But you know we're being, you know we're being so shifted over the side and painted with, you know, this color. This is what we are Right and it's not what we are. You know it's. And so who's doing that? This book is designed to reach into their houses with our message and say, hey, you know, maybe you want to rethink what your ideologies are. Maybe you want to rethink your, your judgment of, of people that live this lifestyle. Maybe they're not so bad and maybe you know they're. They're actually pretty intelligent, some of them at least. And you know, once you get thinking that, then you realize, no, they all have something good. Every single person out there has some good thing inside them somewhere. You might have to dig pretty deep for for some and I mean, I'm not including psychopaths.

Speaker 1: 49:57

And the world's got those.

Speaker 2: 49:58

But, you know, just because they're different color, because they eat different foods, they dress differently, because they speak a different language, they come from a faraway place, they have a different religion, doesn't make them evil or bad or wrong, you know. So we need to start being more tolerant of the game. That's, that's what that's meant to do. But you have to, you have to play inside their game. You know, just a funny story about that I, when I first wrote it, you know, my agent, Esther Peter Korovitch, said it to 10 literary publishers. So they published literature.

Speaker 2: 50:39

You know, with literature, and because it's, you know, because it is such a multifaceted, deep metaphoric, I mean, you know, it's not a Rich, yeah, it's not a, it's, it is almost literature.

Speaker 2: 50:53

Well, it should be, but not one of them read it. They all sent the manuscript back and they said, with every one of them said, no, we Google the guide, he can't possibly write literature, Impossible, so excited. Well, but this is, this is, yeah, this is, you know, and they judge me. They judge me because, yeah, he wears a cowboy hat, he's not a professor, he doesn't have a literature degree, you know, he's not down and out, he's not suicidal, he's not, you know, got a every vice in the world and and you know, from that low place as writing, you know fine work of art, he can't possibly do it because he's kind of together, has a family, you know grandchildren just like like this, and he and he hunts, you know, so, so so they sent it back. So that's what that's why it ended up in commercial fiction with Simon and Schuster is, and they had to slot it somewhere. So they they put it in the thriller category and it you know, to a degree it is, you know, there's, there's certainly that that's the closest.

Speaker 2: 52:00

I know. You wouldn't put it. I mean, you would possibly put it in romance, but it certainly isn't a Harlequin Right, and you won't find any of that until the second, the second and third book. But but yeah, that's, that's all down the road. But yeah, I like it it's. It felt great having the book, but it's, it's passed.

Speaker 2: 52:21

Okay, now let's get out there to everybody, to as many people. Even if if every hunter bought this, that would make Simon and Schuster enough money and doesn't make me money, trust me. I, you know, I, I literally make more money going to my mailbox and running my you know empire than I do doing this. But but if it makes them money, it's going to open the doors for more of these type of books that show characters that have the stereotypes reversed and and we haven't had an opportunity to do that since Hemingway and Rourke, those guys back 60, 1960, when Kennedy was assassinated that pretty well closed the door on us, you know, and and so this'll, this'll hopefully start that.

Speaker 2: 53:03

I mean, that's a big, it's a big goal and a big dream. But that would be my goal and we can do it. We can do it within our own organization, our hunting world of people, like-minded people, and so my goal at this point is to to let all of them know. Even if you don't want to, you don't like reading, get the audio books. I mean, I personally read the second person perspectives in the book, so any of the italicized sections of Tzizu talking that I that's second person which is never done in a novel. It's just, it's so rare, you know, like I don't know. There's maybe four examples somewhere there's probably a literature going, knowing, knowing, knowing, knowing.

Speaker 2: 53:43

There's five, you know, but but you know the second person perspectives in a novel. It's not an autobiography, it's, but not in, not in novels. And so I read those parts and I got. I told him I wanted Scott Brick to do the audio on the rest of it and they wanted seven readers to do various parts. They sent me 21 names or 21 audio, audio clips to pick and choose who I wanted to read the various characters, and I said no, I want Scott Brick. To me he's the classic Clive Kussler. He did you know Michael Crichton books. He's Scott Brick. Is is super cool. I don't know, I've never met him. But they said 100% of you want Scott Brick, we'll get Scott Brick. So, hunters, you know you're in your truck somewhere driving wherever you know, get the audio book. But, like I say, if enough of us get behind this, we can move the needle for what is acceptable in mainstream and once we get there, then we can tell our story and our narrative is is a wonderful, beautiful, green, like field to table living is. You know this is our temples and you know we take care of these temples. So, and everybody else wants to, it's just hard to do in the 23rd floor of high rise in New York City. So but if we show them, if they read this and enough of us buy it so that they allow more of these stories to get out, I think it'll, it'll be a great service. It'll it'll start swinging that pendulum back the other way.

Speaker 2: 55:15

Jack Carr has already started. You know his character, james Reese. I mean, the guy's a hunter. You know he's a hunter and that's so he's. You know it's pretty masculine. His book, his writing, so it's. You know. You know there's a segment that, oh well, who, who? Well, okay, you know, here, try this one. You know this is a little different now. It's a female character, is the protagonist young lady? You know, and I don't want to give it away, but why can't? I don't want to say because I'm hoping that's, that's my goal in the future. Now is to is to get this out into as many hands as we can. Everybody out there listening, buy 10 copies for your mother. You know, like the Rolling Stones was, was that five man electrical band? Yeah, five, five copies for my mother.

Speaker 1: 56:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:05

But yeah, you know, I just give them away. But it doesn't matter, as long as we're, I honestly think it'll make a difference. It's not about money. We're given this whole museum away to a society the land, the building, the contents and an endowment to cover expenses for 40 years. So it'll always be donation. You know, I grew up in a trailer park so I couldn't come in with a $1 cover charge. So it'll never be a cover charge in this museum as long as I can reach back from the grave and control the board of directors. So this isn't about money. I'm going to give it all the way anyway. You know it's not. I don't need. Look at it. You know I've got 20 cowboy hats still in boxes waiting for you know, when this one wears out, so right, I don't need a lot and Cabela's gives me clothing. So you know, I don't want the money, I don't don't need it, I give, I'll give it all the way anyway. So it's not about that, because anyone out there that's oh, it just does it for money. No, no, I really truly believe that this will, this book will make a difference If it goes well, if I can get on talk shows and I can talk about, you know, hunters and hunting, because that'll come up.

Speaker 2: 57:03

What about your past? You killed a lot of you know. Okay, well, you know, let's talk about that. Let's talk about the conservation of these species and let's talk about your ideology and what's inherently wrong with the way you're thinking and how it's hurting wildlife. You know, give me a voice, and the way we get a voice, or give us a voice as hunters, the way we get a voice is by playing their world, playing in their world, because you know what it's, our world too.

Speaker 1: 57:35

Wow, it's well said. You know, the idea that people who are anti-hunting like the idea of not hunting is a very new and very foreign concept. We would not be here talking to each other if our ancestors didn't survive for millennia to be able to get to this point. And hunters, regardless of what anybody else may say, are the ones who are putting back the funding, which is the important part right, and the awareness to conservation and to being able to increase the habitats of wildlife and being able to make sure that some of those wild places stay wild, and I think that that goes way over people's heads. They don't recognize that we are the ones that are doing the most of the conservation work, or at least funding it, which is very imperative. And you know that's one of many tenets of things we need to do by this book Share it with your friends, Get this awareness out and being able to do so much, and you know, like you said too, being able to have an endowment and being able to have something free where people can come and appreciate these arts, reach back into the relics of our past, really understand where you know these riches of our lives come from and how we are here and I was, you know, in that thread too.

Speaker 1: 58:51

I was curious is there some pieces of artwork or artifacts that you found that have just kind of came out and put a rainbow in the middle of that brown on brown that may be around you? There's some things that you're like wow, and that may be now in the hand of man museum kind of like some of the not I'm not comparing you to an operative of the art world, art world sense, but I was curious if there's been some things in your travel throughout all these countries that you've walked upon, something of such rare and magnificent beauty. That is just something that was so profound and maybe someone's donated or maybe you brought back to the museum or something you'd like to tell a story about.

Speaker 2: 59:34

I know you said you didn't want to compare it to the operative Every single piece in here, in this museum and donations aside, there really is only there's a large Marlin, mounted Marlin that was donated, a crystal from Ron Coleman, coleman Mines fantastic. And there was a whale skeleton as well, donated. And for the most part, I mean I don't know. There's probably 200,000 objects in here. I found them. You know some of the arrowheads. You know they came from people that found them 100 years ago, right, and I, you know I got them out of their collections, so I found them in their collections, not actually on the ground. I found thousands of these, these artifacts, you know, looking myself, but all the art pieces, they're pieces that spoke to me. They weren't donated, someone didn't just come in out of the blue and give them. I picked and chose them, and why, why was that? You know, I sincerely believe.

Speaker 2: 1:00:36

Back to what I was saying, and then maybe you know people going oh, heebie, jeebie, no, I believe here, you know, we'll say it, the Spirit of God resides. Look around us. You want to deny that there's a God? Yeah, come on. You know, and I believe that that spirit, whatever it is and I'm not, I'm not promulgating any particular religion or faith, you know, or or denigrating any other religion or faith from where it is around the world animism, hinduism, you know, islam, I, I, you know, I'm not denigrating any other religion. I'm just saying that, whatever the Creator, that they all, even the First Nations, are Creator here.

Speaker 2: 1:01:18

I believe that often the, the, the work, works of art that are the best, came from a higher source than the person that made it, that created it. And these pieces that are in this museum, every single one of them has spoken to me. That's why they're here Now. Sure, I've seen pieces in museums around the world that are beautiful and in in situ, in places you know where, where, with shrines, I mean Romania. You know, going through the villages and seeing the crosses that are, you know, like eight feet tall and people's front yards. They're spectacular. But you know how are you going to bring one of those back? You know, you, you, although over time probably there would be, you know, sale of those objects too, although mostly they'll just rot away. But I was never able to bring one of those back. But but spectacular the.

Speaker 2: 1:02:16

So, you know, I get asked a similar question whether there's any one piece in here that that means more to me, and the way I answer it is no, there isn't. There's not one. There's pieces that are more valuable money-wise in the marketplace, but you know, and some extremely valuable, you know, like there's one piece that I've, you know, we had pieces at home that were, you know, louise and I, everything from our home is coming to the museum. We're donating it all and and but. We lived with those pieces, but I'm bringing one in today. That's, you know, it's $150,000.

Speaker 2: 1:02:53

And, and you know so, it's valuable money-wise but it's not any more important than I can see out my window, right here, you know, at a bamboo-like-y mask from the Cameroon Grasslands. And why? It's because the person that made it is equal to the person that made the Sistine Chapel, equal to Michelangelo. We are all equal and Da Vinci was wonderfully, wonderful works of art, but that doesn't make what he created intrinsically more important than you know.

Speaker 2: 1:03:28

This piece right out my window, you know, a sampler from, from the Hutterite colonies. Or, or you know, a Hindu wedding, embroidered wedding blanket. There's Amish quilts there's, you know, dukkabor Woven Kavyor and Palas and Darushka rugs. You know, in the museum they're, you know, and the reason is because we are all equal as human beings and that means whatever we created is just as valid as long as it was created with that, you know, soul, with that spirit and and for your purity of purpose, whether it was ceremonial, whether it was religious, whether it was, whether it was just out of love. You know I've got a Valentine's box here that was carved in. You know it was love, it was folk art, but it's love, it's, you know it's.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

So whether it's ethnocentric or idiosyncratic does not matter. The person that makes it made the piece, each individual piece, that's what matters. And they're all equal in my mind. So I do not have a, I don't have a special piece or a special memory about each one, because every single one of these spoke to me as I. You know, I see it, you know, and these are not tourist pieces, they're, they're and again it harkens back to call me Hunter the ability to sense beauty, you know, the ability to recognize it, whatever that is, and it may be just for you, that beauty.

Speaker 2: 1:04:54

And then people ask what do I decorate my house with? Well, decorate it with whatever you want to decorate it with. You don't need to have a decorator so it doesn't offend some other people that come into your house. If you love it by it, because it's talking, that thing is talking to you. It may be garish to someone else, but if it speaks to you it's you know. That's because the spirit of the person that made it. Now, if it's factory made you know days made in Japan, was it Paul Revere and the others. You know all the yeah, yeah, cherokee people, cherokee. You know all the things we made by hand are now made the days made in Japan, you know. If it's made in China made you know factory and stuck on your wall, there's no art in that.

Speaker 1: 1:05:42

There's no soul to it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:44

It's absolutely soulless and I walk into houses all the time and I'm not judging, because if they want to live a soulless existence, who am I to judge that? I guess I am judging, you know. But again, it's not a and people can say I can't afford a bull crap. You can go to a garage sale and you'll find something that's handmade by somebody that made meant something. You know a tool. You know there's lots of hand forged tools. They're super cool. You know tools that were used. You know beautiful To live with those. I see you're like when it's funny. When I do these podcasts I can I get a sense of the podcaster, the interviewer, by what's behind them and you know to see you with the arrowheads and the books is fabulous. You know Jack Carr's behind them is all books and now of course, he's got a and I've got all his here too, and you know you've got to be responsible to, to who brought you to the dance.

Speaker 2: 1:06:45

You know I got my my little stuff by me but we also do this out in the actual museum with dinosaur skeletons and woolly mammoth skeletons and you know whale skeletons and our whale and we got it all here. Elk moose, you know, and mounts, but then also the cultural objects like a 23 foot new Chalmouth whaling canoe. You know dugout, I mean from the West Coast here, northwest Coast, I mean. So yeah, the. Back to your original question, the. There isn't a single piece. There's pieces that I have family memories for sure, like my dad's last moose is on the wall. You know where you hit it through the first bullet through one of the times. You can still see the whole, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:07:28

So the, but those are, that's a different type of value, you know that's, that's, that's a personal, personal object that brings back a memory of a, of an event or an accomplishment, which for my dad at 79, getting his moose, that's. And there's Eva, our daughter's first moose, a little tiny, tiny one down in the corner. If anybody comes to the museum they'll see that too. So you know those, those are. Those are different types of memories, but as far as the objects in the museum, they're all equal. Every single one of them is taxidermy mounts. That's artistry, you know that's. Those are artists that do those taxidermy mounts. One of those are just as important as the next one. So, yeah, I mean, there's no, no one piece that has a particular, you know, importance, because they're all important.

Speaker 1: 1:08:15

Oh, that that's a great answer and I'm glad you elaborated. With that too, I mean all the different places you've been and the things that have the story. Oh, what's this? Well, that's when I met these people and they invited me to this ceremony or whatever it could be. Like the story that comes from that thing. You know that idea that some people think about like hunters oh, that's just a trophy, they just want to look over and they've dominated that. No, it's like that might have taken them 40 years to be able to get on that hunt and they were there with their father or their friends or their daughter or their son and there's, it's the story, it's the things that come together and that connectivity with human beings, and you know our own hearts and souls that I think there's people you understand it, I understand it. Other people who are in the same breadth of understand that kind of idea. But it's something that I think, like you talked about too, the richness of that education and being able to bring that tolerance around with your book. It's another, you know, valuable aspect that I think people understand, the richness thereof.

Speaker 1: 1:09:10

I know you have some other things to do today, so I want to ask a few more questions before we head out. You've got a book tour coming out for Call Me Hunter. I see that you've got I think almost like 10, 12 different dates over here. You're going to be traveling all around. Can you kind of give us an idea for those who are going to be going to this? What does that format look like? What are you going to be doing? Some reading, some interviews, some signing pictures? What exactly does that look like so far?

Speaker 2: 1:09:37

Well, first of all, do not mistake me for someone that is, you know, like I am not on a need to know basis, apparently. So so you know, I know I have to be picked up tomorrow morning and taken to the airport and I'm flying off to North Carolina and I have an appearance in Cary. Just this morning I actually told the you know my people here that are organizing our side of it that make sure there's a tall stool. I'm sitting on a tall stool right now, but for me to sit, you know, crunch down into a chair and then, you know, everyone standing up that's coming up to me, so I'm down low like this signing up.

Speaker 2: 1:10:16

You know, hey, how you doing Great, you know. And then I have to get out of that chair like a jumping jack to take a picture and then sit back down and sign it. You know it's been a lot of years since I've done appearances like this. So you know, I was just rusty and my crew didn't even think about that. I said no, there has to be tall table, like what I'm sitting at right now, and a tall stool so I, you know, I can get up that easily and just talking at people. You know most I'm pretty tall sitting on a stool. I'm, you know about eye level with most people, so I can look at them when I'm talking and not be like this in a chair and then have to hop up. I mean, you hop up 500 times in two hours. It's like a workout. So, and my knees, I'm trying to save them whatever for as long as.

Speaker 2: 1:11:04

I possibly. So back to what's happening. I you know, I think each. I'm doing it all at Cabela's and basketball shops Not all, there is some at book stores. I know Jack Carr is actually coming to be with me on one of them in Arizona Wonderful.

Speaker 1: 1:11:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:11:26

Glendale, arizona on October 25th. Okay, is that the one that Jack's coming?

Speaker 1: 1:11:29

I don't know, but Well, that's an Arizona one, so maybe that's it yeah maybe not.

Speaker 2: 1:11:32

Okay, yeah, probably is, I don't know. I think I don't know if it's a book club or bookstore. Like I said, okay, got it, got it. You need to know basis and I know that. Show up here.

Speaker 1: 1:11:43

Bring your, bring your pens in your hand. Bring your pen, Work out the arms.

Speaker 2: 1:11:47

Yeah, but I think I think when they were doing these I said why don't we do them at the Bass Pro and Cabela stores? I mean, I love Bass Pro and Cabela.

Speaker 2: 1:11:56

Johnny Morris one of the greatest conservationists, and John Paul, his son. I mean these guys they walk the walk on conservation. They're wonders of wildlife, museum, aquarium, it's just. I mean it's beyond world class. And he puts his money exactly in what he believes in, which is conservation. So I said let's do the book signings at Cabela's and Bass Pro stores as many as we can, and they picked them. I know a lot of people are on Facebook and Instagram right now saying why aren't you here in Wyoming?

Speaker 2: 1:12:28

Why aren't you in Oregon? Why aren't you here? Why aren't you here? Well, I didn't choose and and I you know there's only so many places I can get to, but I will try and make it to every state you know eventually on this and do these appearances so I can personally sign the books that people have, the.

Speaker 2: 1:12:46

I believe each store and every single Cabela store and every single Bass Pro shop store will have Call Me Hunter. I believe this is the only book, it's the only fiction book they've ever sold and I believe it's the only book that's going to be in every single store. Some of them you might have to look for, but some of them, I think, have a. You know, have a. I don't know if they have a stand up you know me on display or something, right, yeah, but but each of these appearances, I believe they're bringing in 250 copies of Call Me Hunter, and so people can, you know, as long as they're in the first 250, they can buy it, which I'm sure you know, hopefully. I mean, I'd like to see 500 people on one hand, but on the other hand, I don't want anybody to go home without a book. But they are. They will have 500 and anybody right now can order them online from any of the major bookstores to chapters and Barnes and Noble they're all selling it, so that's great, to buy from them too. But yeah, that's as near as I can tell. People come in and I have, hopefully, a high table and a high stool so I can look you in the eye and take a picture and, and you know, depending on how many people I'm going to, I hate ever leaving anybody, not, you know, I just hate it. That's just not my style. I mean, I'll wait till the last minute, but I know they've got me a fairly tight schedule for travel, so you know I might have handlers that make me, but I'll still go down the lineup, say hello to everybody as best as I can, and yeah, I'll do, I'll do anything I possibly can to to meet and greet every single person that's out there and, like I say, let's, let's, let's turn this into a party. I just I can use a little bit of of fun and and a joy. So let's, you know I'm looking forward to meeting everybody, listening and and all the people that are fans or that want to buy the book.

Speaker 2: 1:14:42

And you know, I think another good thing about it too, by Kevin and the Baspro and Cabela, is anyone that's you know, sort of the the reader world, not our outdoor world. They have to come to Cabela's or Baspro to to meet the writer of this book. You know the author, you know normally they, you know they would never go to a place like that. Well now, here, here's what we're like. Look at, this is families. Is there people that are good, you know people, patriotic people that that love their country and and you know, I think it would do a great service to to mix these as opposed to a bookstore where not necessarily all of us would go to. But Cabela's and Baspro were kind of comfortable, so we'll see how many actual people that are.

Speaker 2: 1:15:26

You know, book people will make that effort because it's out of their comfort zone to walk in a Baspro, cabela's and especially if you've got, you know, 300 people there all having fun and laughing and telling stories and and being who we are. I mean that's that's who we are. It's camaraderie, friendship, family, storytelling, traditions. This is who we are and they get to actually meet us in our element as opposed to reading about us in some you know way. You know John does version. You know that's because it's that's what the popular press has been staring typing us like. So now they get to see what we're really like. I think it'll be an interesting, an interesting event in every place. But yeah, let's, let's chair this host now and have some fun at these, at these appearances. I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 2: 1:16:14

Oh like literally in a hotel.

Speaker 1: 1:16:16

Yeah, the Baspro. We will not do that. We promise Cabela's. Sorry, it's going to be amazing. Man, I can't wait to to you know, see you when you come through in Texas and I know I highly encourage everybody, pre-order your book, go and bring one, because 250, I think that's going to be gone quick, so you should bring your own if you want to get one signed, if they allow that and you know before we kind of you know head off. I wanted to ask you and I think a lot of the things kind of tie in really nicely to this question is about your personal and professional legacy. What is it that you want that to be and how? What like your perception of your own legacy and being just kind of explained, maybe what it is that you want to be known for as you you know. Step away one day into that, that final sunset.

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

You know, someone told me someone told me, someone wrote it that what you accomplish in your life is kind of irrelevant. It's what they remember you for when you're gone. And you know people, you know we're just humans. We don't remember one generation like it's gone. So to me, I would love, I mean, this museum will carry on. I'll make sure there's enough money. This is the legacy, right here. Here it is. You want the story? Here it is. Yeah, you'll exactly right. This is the whole story. This museum, from my first seashell that I collected at 10 years of age, is here. You know. So for this museum I collected it, and so you know that's definitely part of the legacy, but that's this, isn't the Jim Schaake Museum.

Speaker 2: 1:17:57

You know this is the London Manor Museum of Natural History, cultural Arts and Conservation, and Jim Schaake was the one that was instrumental in putting it together, and Louise Schaake and my family and there's a little shrine in here, or, louise, that will always have fresh flowers and it, you know, I would, I guess, like to be remembered a legacy of made a positive difference on people's perception of hunters and hunting. You know that would be wonderful, you know to. You know, actually, you know, push back that goo, this black, judgmental goo that we've been tarred with all these years. And you know, wow, here we are. You know we got through it, led the way, opened the door to get us out into the sunlight and show everybody what we're really like. You know, good people, that would be a wonderful legacy. And you know, to be someone who showed the world how to be tolerant, helped show the world, you know, by example. You know love, show the world what it means to truly love somebody. And you know those are just. I don't know being a good person. You know as good as can be. I'm not. You know, like I say, trust me, I've got another book that will be coming out fairly soon that I wrote while Louise was going through this, you know, over the last year and it was 56 stories of our, you know, our beginning, her grandparents, my grandparents, just but little stories that are personal stories of her childhood and you know how we met, things like that.

Speaker 2: 1:19:47

And then you know I talk about my childhood I could have been a mastermind thief, you know. I could have been a criminal, you know I had that opportunity. I think I'd probably be great at it and made a pile of money and still be walking around free, like there's many criminals right now that are, have powerful positions, you know. So I, you know I had that option back then and I talk about that. You know here's. You know, when you're faced with the high road or the low road, the low road is pretty easy to walk up, you know. I mean, you know, but the high road, high road takes effort, you know, you have to really desire to be walking that road. So, yeah, just legacy, legacy. I just want to be remembered as somebody who genuinely cared and devoted their life to to making this world a more positive place, you know, and had great guidance from a soulmate that honestly was an angel on earth and why she had to go back to heaven. You know that early, so yeah, it'll be the legacy.

Speaker 1: 1:20:56

Wow. Well, thank you for sharing all that. Thank you for being so open with all your feelings and your thoughts and your story with with you know, with with me today, with your book, with your career and you know, you've enriched and enlightened so many people and I can't wait to read the future books, read the future interviews, talk to you in person and being able to you know, hopefully maybe even have you back on again sometime, when we talk about that, that next book or that next chapter or whatever goal you set out to achieve, and when you're achieving it. I want to be a part of that and hear about it all. And I just want to thank you so much, jen, for being here today Before we sign off. I know there's going to be a lot of people who might want to know how can they follow this journey of all the things that you've done, that you're doing, and if you can maybe tell people you know your social media spots and websites that people can go and follow.

Speaker 2: 1:21:50

Very. I mean, you know I've got Instagram, facebook, twitter. Those are easy places because, because I live on those as far as what's happening in my daily life, you know you want to follow what's going on. It's all there, you know, I don't I don't sugarcoat it, it is what it is. Also, you can go to our website, jimshockeycom. You can check out our museum, handofmanorg orcom. I think if you type in hand of man, it will come up and that's in Vancouver Island, correct? Vancouver Island, yeah, but an hour north of Victoria, anybody that's coming up to this part of the world, the west side of Canada, it's worth coming up to the museum. I, you know I can't guarantee it, but you know, because there's one in a thousand people that walk in and hate me and hate everything.

Speaker 1: 1:22:36

You know they just it is what it is, we'll go for the other 999.

Speaker 2: 1:22:40

Yeah, so you know they and they, they love it, like literally love it. You can see the Google reviews. So, yeah, I'm easy to, easy to reach, easy to follow and hopefully, you know, if Call Me Hunter makes enough waves, you know you'll be able to see me on some of the TV shows and whatnot, the talk shows and newscasts, and we'll see, we'll see If it gets picked up. You know, turn into a movie like Jack's book did. Then then you know who knows that? You know, but right now that that's what I'll be working towards. And anyway, he wants to follow along that journey, which was just a lot of hard work. Yeah, but you know, not complaining, because it's also a ton of fun with like-minded people.

Speaker 2: 1:23:23

Yeah, so yeah, and I do appearances at SCI's National Convention in Nashville this year and I'll be at Shot Show and I'll be at Dallas the party club show. You know I think I'm doing a speaking at the Wild Sheep Federation and here in British Coast, stuff like that. I'm around, but it's, it's all going to be online. If you follow me on Instagram, facebook is a good one because that's a pretty engaged audience on Facebook. Actually, you know Instagram not quite as much, but you know there's probably 430 or 40,000 on Instagram but 750,000 followers on Facebook. So it's a significant number and it's a lot of fun because we, we get into it sometimes. I'm not afraid to, I'm not afraid to stand up and say, okay, let's, let's duke it out here. Buddy, you know, whatever you you know, I don't have, I don't have much of a tolerance for intolerance. Oh, that's a terrible thing to say there, because I think you should always be tolerant of everything, but I'm intolerant of, I'm intolerant of intolerance. So there you go.

Speaker 1: 1:24:26

There's a t-shirt somewhere in there. I can. I can see it. Yeah, exactly, that's important. Well, thank you, jim, once again for coming on and being a part of this, and I wish you all the best travels for the book tour. Everyone, go check it out. Go get your copy of Call Me Hunter. It's a phenomenal book. Everyone, I think, is going to love it, and I know that it's just destined for great success. I can't wait to see it rise and see you continue to be able to share all the things in your life that are important with your family, with your heart, with your soul, with your art, with your museum and everything else that you put out there. And thank you for being so open and sharing so much of your life with all of us. It really means a lot to me personally and everyone else I know.

Speaker 2: 1:25:11

Oh, made my day. I'm going to get a big fat head and I won't put my cowboy hat on.

Speaker 1: 1:25:16

Stretch the next one out. We'll cheers you, take care, we'll talk soon, you bet Thanks Will. Thank you.